Wahhabism is a man made religion

[flamer84]

He called Prophet(SAW) a dead man, when we are not even allowed to call martyrs dead.

Wahaabism along with Deobandism(Tableeghi Jamaat specially) is made in England. They dug up Ibn-Tahmiyah, a heretic from some lost pages of history, and made him someone important again. The English mission was to raise up ethno-religious fanatics to attack Ottoman Empire, which was the only Muslim state at that time capable of fighting and resisting Europeans. Ottomans were purely Sufi, and if they existed today, they would be labelled "barelvi" by the deobandis of Pakistan. The Mughals were also "barelvi", which is a fake term invented by deobandis and their English allies for the original Islam of sub-continent.

The wahaabis and deobandis, who are 90% similar in their beliefs, are still acting in the favour of west in the forms of Islamic states and TTPs.

Nonsense and historical revizionism.From the 1800's onwards the Ottomans were in no shape of resisting Europeans,in fact it was artificially kept alive by Western Europeans as a counterweight to other Europeans,Hapsburgs and most importantly,Russians.They didn't call the Ottoman Empire the "sick man of Europe" for nothing.Heck,in 1913,the Western powers even had to reign in the Balkanites from marching on Istanbul.


Anyway this thread needs Turks as the OP accuses Ataturk of being a crypto Jew.I wonder if he was such a good Jew why did he fought against European powers to at least preserve Anatolia for the Turks while the beloved sultan signed all demands leaving a small fief for him to quietly rule.This is what happens when people read sensationalist crap instead of real history.



@Sinan @BordoEnes @TurAr @usernameless @Neptune @T-123456 @atatwolf @telkon @xenon54

 

[Dubious]

What is harming in discussing out our differences?

No harm....but what is killing all of you in calling yourselves a Muslim and minding your business (not being rude but I dont like to beat about the bush)

 

[I.R.A]

No harm....but what is killing all of you in calling yourselves a Muslim and minding your business (not being rude but I dont like to beat about the bush)

I have no problem we have to accept each other at one stage or another, there is no other solution to it. But when it comes to Pakistan I cannot mind my own business, because I never know the mosque I entered is under control of Ahl E Hadees, Bralvees, Tableeghis, Deo Bandis, Sipah E Sahaba, Jamat Ud Dawa or whatever (though I look for interior decor of the mosque first now to understand) and once I enter it I get to know all their arguments in favor of what they believe, there are some common grounds but then there are extremes that confuse you. All of us here are not imams of the mosques we are saying what they feed us and we know all these Molana sbs can resolve all the differences if they get together and sit under one roof and don't come out unless they have one single agreed verdict to let people know. Till then nobody in Pakistan can mind his business I don't think so, because everybody gets fed something about others.

 

[fatman17]

Sorry to say this but all this discussion is too complex and I thought calculus was complex. Must commend the in depth knowledge of the posters here. For me I am just a simple Muslim who follows the 5 pillars of Islam, take care of my aged mother and family members, help anyone who is less fortunate then what Allah has bestowed on me, live a simple but comfortable lifestyle, in peace and most importantly mind my own business.

 

[Lord ZeN]

WAHHABISM IS A MAN MADE RELIGION

So other religions aren't ?
Timeline of religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Arsalan]

I never said their ideology is similar to Islam, I know how far from that they are, but that doesn't mean killing them is justified.

I do not think KILLING and human only based on there beliefs is justified.

It's hilarious, that's what happens to me all the time. People call me a Salafi Wahabi extremist on one side and a liberal secular traitor on the other - that's what happens when you piss of both extremes

Still for me, pissing off both extremes is the right thing to do
Even if you think about it from Islamic point of view, our religion ASKS us to avoid extremism in any form, we have been told again and again in both QUran and Sunnah to follow the moderate path, mayanarawi ikhtiar kro!!!

Sorry to say this but all this discussion is too complex and I thought calculus was complex. Must commend the in depth knowledge of the posters here. For me I am just a simple Muslim who follows the 5 pillars of Islam, take care of my aged mother and family members, help anyone who is less fortunate then what Allah has bestowed on me, live a simple but comfortable lifestyle, in peace and most importantly mind my own business.

Sir, we need more SIMPLE MUSLIMS rather than wahabis, baralvis, shia and sunnins, deobandi and all!!

The day we will have more simple Muslims as you put it, things will start to improve for all of us!

 

[Dubious]

I have no problem we have to accept each other at one stage or another, there is no other solution to it. But when it comes to Pakistan I cannot mind my own business, because I never know the mosque I entered is under control of Ahl E Hadees, Bralvees, Tableeghis, Deo Bandis, Sipah E Sahaba, Jamat Ud Dawa or whatever (though I look for interior decor of the mosque first now to understand)

That is how I check a church well more to do with the types of painting on their walls/ceilings

I found an interesting story on my fb -something really applicable to the uneducated self declared Mullahs


An atheist was seated next to a little girl on an airplane and he turned
to her and said, "Do you want to talk? Flights go quicker if you strike
up a conversation with your fellow passenger."

The little girl, who had just started to read her book, replied to the total
stranger, "What would you want to talk about?"

"Oh, I don't know," said the atheist. "How about why there is no God,
or no Heaven or Hell, or no life after death?" as he smiled smugly.

"Okay," she said. "Those could be interesting topics but let me ask
you a question first. A horse, a cow, and a deer all eat the same
stuff - grass. Yet a deer excretes little pellets, while a cow turns
out a flat patty, but a horse produces clumps. Why do you suppose that is?"

The atheist, visibly surprised by the little girl's intelligence,
thinks about it and says, "Hmmm, I have no idea." To which
the little girl replies, "Do you really feel qualified to discuss
God, Heaven and Hell, or life after death, when you don't know shit?"

And then she went back to reading her book.

 

[Zabaniyah]

From what I gathered, Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab was once a student in present day Iraq. His father was an Islamic scholar. His fathered apparently 'disowned' him for studying Islam too much.
*I never understood this culture of 'disowning' a family member in middle eastern cultures*

He couldn't help notice that people were worshiping graves. He gathered a bunch of followers to criticize the practice. It was an act of Shirk. Naturally, human stubbornness resisted them. They initially called them 'Muhammadans', but that just sounded silly. Hence the term 'Wahhabi'.

So, he wrote a book known as Kitab At Tawhid to prove it, sourced from The Holy Quran and Hadith about the oneness and goodness of God, and that any Shirk has no value in practice.

I think that article is too complicated. A lot of stuff to digest. Heck, they are probably conspiracy theories. How did the House of Saud come to power? Sorry for my ignorance, but I really do not know. Can't say much about Turkey's founder since I don't know him well. I only know that behind all those smiles, handshakes, and fancy American toys, the Saudi image isn't very good. I find their societal norms odd, but it's their country isn't it? I won't comment on the Armenian genocide at this point.

Coming from a small country myself, I can say that small countries like Israel and others do not matter much for US policy (and is logical), so as long as it doesn't threaten American interests (Israel being sent into oblivion). However, factionalism in the middle east may have very well played a part in the creation of Israel. Without support in the surrounding area of Israel at the time, establishing a brand new country would have been close to impossible. Divide and conquer were there too!

@Zarvan could use a decaf.

 

[niaz]

Most people would have no problem living among or dealing with Muslims of different beliefs as along as these believes are not imposed by force. Basic Islamic belief is the Sahada

Ašhadu an lā ilāha illā-llāh waḥdahu lā šarīka lahu, wa ašhadu anna muḥammadan ʿabduhu wa rasūluhu.

"I testify that (there is) no god except God; One is He, no partner has He, and I testify that Muhammad is His servant and messenger."

Full belief is summarised in” Amanto billahe wa rasulahie…” which can be translated as : I believe in Allah, His angels, His books to mankind, His Prophets and Messengers, the Day of Judgment, and Destiny.

Since only Allah knows what is in anyone’s heart, anyone who says that he believes in the above is a Moslem. No doubt a good Moslem would also practice pillars of Islam such as fasting & prayers diligently. However many who do not offer prayers on regular basis, may not be good Moslems but it is not up to me or anyone else to force them to do so; understand there were attendance registers for the morning prayers during early Saudi period.

Majority of Pakistani Sunni followers are not Wahhabis (followers of Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal) but belong to the Hanafi School even though Deobandi teachings have strong Wahhabi influence. There are differences among the Deobandi scholars as well. For example Malauna Hassan Madani of Deoband was vehemently anti-Pakistan, but his student Maulana Shabbier Ahmad Usmani supported Pakistan movement.

For a long time Shia have been called Rafideen (Literal meaning those who reject; referring to Shia rejection of the first three Rashideen Khalifas). However following the start of the proxy war between Shia Iran & the Wahhabi Saudi Arabia during the era of the bigot Zia; Wahhabi influence among some Deobandi scholars has increased. And extremist Salafi/Takfiri beliefs have crept into some of the Pakistani Deobandi madaaris who consider Shia ‘Wajib ul Qatl’; meaning it is obligatory for their followers to kill Shia.

Lashkar Jhangvi & TTP who indiscriminately kill the minorities and especially the Hazara’s simply because they are Shia; and boast of their nefarious deed belong to the Deobandi maslak. An exception was Maulana Alam Jan who declared against this cruelty but was himself gunned down as a result.

Rightly or wrongly; in my view it is some of the Deobandi factions that are real cause of sectarian strife in particular and terrorist acts in general in present day Pakistan.

 

[Hyperion]

I simply love this thread, I dunno why!

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

What is new , Every religion is man made!