Vietnam Defence Forum

[Nike]

I've been hearing about this Indochina "unification" thing a few times by now, can you explain what that means in more detail and what countries are involved?



There are 2 versions of those ships, one for the navy and one for the coast guard, the coast guard already has 6 ships. I think the quantity of 10 to 12 is for both versions, but I'm not sure.

that's DN 2000 design, 6 for Coast guard, 15 for fisheries law enforcement department

as long as i know TT-400 TP series gunboat patrol ships is only for Navy

fisheries law enforcement version of DN-2000 noted they have been equipped with hangar

 

[Carlosa]

that's DN 2000 design, 6 for Coast guard, 15 for fisheries law enforcement department

as long as i know TT-400 TP series gunboat patrol ships is only for Navy

fisheries law enforcement version of DN-2000 noted they have been equipped with hangar

No, there is a simpler version of the TT-400TP for the coast guard with the designation TT-400, they have 6 of those in the coast guard.

Here is a pic:

 

[Carlosa]

Another good article to read, mostly related to how Vietnam plan to use the Kilo submarines against China:

Vietnam’s China Challenge: Making Asymmetric Deterrence Work | The Diplomat

 

[Nike]

No, there is a simpler version of the TT-400TP for the coast guard with the designation TT-400, they have 6 of those in the coast guard.

Here is a pic:

View attachment 48044

no i never heard TT 400TP for civilian department version, the picture you've got was TT200 (and it stand for 200 tonnage unlike TT400 in which reach more than 400 tonnage) used by Vietnam Marine police department, and TT200 itself was in much different design and have no parts of Vietnam Navy effort to build their own warship design, the TT400TP. The gunboat it self was drawing in concept based on "Lan" gunboat from Ukraine and the Z-143 shipyard (Hongha shipyard company) with Navy designers completed the design based on Navy and Vietnam characteristic needs. Only hong ha shipyard got privileged to build TT400TP.

 

[World Citizen]

no i never heard TT 400TP for civilian department version, the picture you've got was TT200 (and it stand for 200 tonnage unlike TT400 in which reach more than 400 tonnage) used by Vietnam Marine police department, and TT200 itself was in much different design and have no parts of Vietnam Navy effort to build their own warship design, the TT400TP. The gunboat it self was drawing in concept based on "Lan" gunboat from Ukraine and the Z-143 shipyard (Hongha shipyard company) with Navy designers completed the design based on Navy and Vietnam characteristic needs. Only hong ha shipyard got privileged to build TT400TP.

We just never knows when Vietnam pop up with some other patrol ships, government secret u know .

 

[Carlosa]

no i never heard TT 400TP for civilian department version, the picture you've got was TT200 (and it stand for 200 tonnage unlike TT400 in which reach more than 400 tonnage) used by Vietnam Marine police department, and TT200 itself was in much different design and have no parts of Vietnam Navy effort to build their own warship design, the TT400TP. The gunboat it self was drawing in concept based on "Lan" gunboat from Ukraine and the Z-143 shipyard (Hongha shipyard company) with Navy designers completed the design based on Navy and Vietnam characteristic needs. Only hong ha shipyard got privileged to build TT400TP.

Sorry, but not correct, the pic I showed is indeed TT400, this is what TT200 looks like:

Here is a chart of the vessels of the coast guard, you can see TT400 there:

In the Vietnamese coast guard, the ships with the numbers in the 4000 series are the TT-400 class and the ships with the numbers in the 2000 series are the TT-200 class.

The differences between TT-400TP and TT-400 are mainly in the weapon systems and onboard equipment since a coast guard vessel doesn't require as much as a military vessel.

Here is the link to the Vietnamese coast guard page in Wiki:

Vietnam Coast Guard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Carlosa]

Here is the link to a very good and long article (with many pics and videos) from the BBC about Chinese building activities in the Johnson Reef area. China's island factory. BBC News

China's Island Factory

Why is Vietnam so quiet about what China is doing there? Those reefs were taken from Vietnam in 1988 after all. Philippines is the one that keeps reporting and complaining about those chinese activities.

 

[Viet]

Vietnam navy intend to build at least 8 to 12 such vessels, i recall

hm...how comes that the navy has not made any announcement for a such buildup?
12 gunships are a great number.

 

[Viet]

our "Vietnam" expert Carlyle Thayer gives a summary on the current status of Vietnamese Navy. With the Kilo submarines as the major leap in the development.

Vietnam’s Maritime forces
by Carlyle Thayer
http://www.iacspsea.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Vietnams-Maritime-Forces-July-10-2014.pdf

Besides, the article mentions the acquisition of 2 Yugo class midget submarines from North Korea in 1997, as the first step in developing undersea-warfare capability.

 

[Carlosa]

hm...how comes that the navy has not made any announcement for a such buildup?
12 gunships are a great number.

Yes, but have to also consider that those ships are not really important, just patrol boats to patrol littoral areas near the naval bases, etc. They can't do much more than that, they only have 2 guns and Igla anti aircraft infrared missiles, they don't have anti ship missiles. Why they don't have KH-35 anti ship missiles? well, that's another story, I'd like to know the answer to that, that would totally change the role and importance of the ship. If armed with missiles, they could be based on the island and patrol those areas, etc, etc. Those ships are only slightly smaller than the Molniya class, I see no reason why they should not be armed with missiles.

 

[Carlosa]

our "Vietnam" expert Carlyle Thayer gives a summary on the current status of Vietnamese Navy. With the Kilo submarines as the major leap in the development.

Vietnam’s Maritime forces
by Carlyle Thayer
http://www.iacspsea.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Vietnams-Maritime-Forces-July-10-2014.pdf
Besides, the article mentions the acquisition of 2 Yugo class midget submarines from North Korea in 1997, as the first step in developing undersea-warefrare capability.

Good article! One new piece of information there is that VN plans to order more CASA C-212 marine patrol aircraft, I think that's a very good idea.

 

[Viet]

Here is the link to a very good and long article (with many pics and videos) from the BBC about Chinese building activities in the Johnson Reef area. China's island factory. BBC News

China's Island Factory

Why is Vietnam so quiet about what China is doing there? Those reefs were taken from Vietnam in 1988 after all. Philippines is the one that keeps reporting and complaining about those chinese activities.

those chinese construction activities are protected by a massive presence of warships. there is not much what we can do to stop them. Complaining and protesting are waste of time and money. Surely, Vietnam state media issues complain and warning here and there as we see now against the tourism plan of China for Paracels. but it is just all for show.

no, the more realistic approach is: they build theirs, and we response by building ours.
here is our weather station on Truong Sa island:

or installing solar cells and wind generators. the plan is to replace the old diesel generators. we generate green energy for the islands.

or increasingly incooperate Spratly islands into the mainland. we discover some trees on the islands are 600 years old.
Cây ở quần đảo Trường Sa lọt vào danh sách Cây Di sản Việt Nam | Vietnam+ (VietnamPlus)

 

[Carlosa]

those chinese construction activities are protected by a massive presence of warships. there is not much what we can do to stop them. Complaining and protesting are waste of time and money. Surely, Vietnam state media issues complain and warning here and there as we see now against the tourism plan of China for Paracels. but it is just all for show.

no, the more realistic approach is: they build theirs, and we response by building ours.
here is our weather station on Truong Sa island:

Well, I guess that's the sad reality, short of filing a case at the UNCLOS court, there is not much else that can be done. VN should ramp up the land reclamation in the islands also, it would be good to make them larger, get some more civilian population there, fishing ports, etc, that will improve VN's legal claim to them and establish facts on the ground.

There is already land reclamation ongoing at West London reef and a port is being built in Sin Cowe island, at least that's something.

 

[Viet]

Yes, but have to also consider that those ships are not really important, just patrol boats to patrol littoral areas near the naval bases, etc. They can't do much more than that, they only have 2 guns and Igla anti aircraft infrared missiles, they don't have anti ship missiles. Why they don't have KH-35 anti ship missiles? well, that's another story, I'd like to know the answer to that, that would totally change the role and importance of the ship. If armed with missiles, they could be based on the island and patrol those areas, etc, etc. Those ships are only slightly smaller than the Molniya class, I see no reason why they should not be armed with missiles.

well, I think there is not enough room/place on TT400 gunship for antiship missile such as Uran.

this is the gunship (credit to @madokafc):

how will you put the missiles (kh-35 or x-35) and missile guidance radars as seen below on Molynia? the only solution is we enlarge the ship and superstructure. if we do that, the new gunship could carry antiship missiles and store weapons. that will be indeed a big thing for the navy: 12 more missile boats or more, since we can self produce them.

 

[Viet]

I now find the article. hm...we haven´t ordered the klub-s land-attack version yet. Perhaps later if necessary.


Asian Defence News: Arrival of 3 Killers Which Equips Kilo Submarine of Vietnamese Navy
MARCH 30, 2014

First and second submarines of Vietnamese Navy : HQ-182 Hanoi and HQ-183 Ho Chi Minh (photo : tuoitre)

Vietnamese Navy's six Kilo submarines will not be equipped with VA-111 Shkval super torpedo as people have previously speculated . Instead, in 2009, Vietnam has decided to buy two types of Russian anti-submarine torpedoes, anti-ship 53-65 and anti-submarine torpedoes TEST 71.

The information above has been Research Institute Stockholm International Peace (SIPRI) revealed on 17/3.According to SIPRI, the two torpedo 53-65 and TEST 71 will be combined with the type of anti-ship cruise missiles 3M-54 Klub to form a trio of powerful offensive weapon for the diesel-electric submarines of the Vietnamese Navy's Kilo submarines.All three main weapons on this Kilo Vietnam have been ordered since 2009 as part of a deal to buy six Kilo-class submarines, and are expected to be completed in 2016.

Type 53-65 is considered quite modern torpedoes, are able to detect and attack targets at 19 km distances (photo : weaponsystems)

SIPRI's report showed that Vietnam has ordered a total of 50 in anti-ship cruise missiles launched from submarines 3M-54 Klub, 80 anti-ship torpedo 53-65 and 80 anti-ship/anti-submarine TEST-71 torpedo.


Torpedo TEST-71M-NK with range 20 km will equip for Vietnamese Navy's Kilo (photo : alrosa)

In addition to the initial prototype, was developed TEST-71 4 variant is more TEST 71M, TEST 71MK, TEST 71ME-NK and TEST 3. Among them, only variations TEST 71ME-NK is capable of versatile attack (both surface ships and submarines), therefore, there is high possibility this is also the variant torpedo TEST 71 Vietnamese Navy subscribe to Kilo.TEST-71ME-NK has 533 mm diameter, 7.93 m long, weight 1.820 kg; warhead weighs 205 kg and has a great advantage is equipped with 2 fuses different: it needs to target (acoustics and magnetic field) and hit explosion. Torpedo operations are controlled by wireless remote, semi-active probes and transducers for sonar target detection range up to 1.5 km.

TEST-71ME-NK propulsion system is equipped with 2 dual propeller, 48km/h cruise speed and increased to 74 km/h in the final stages, 20 km long range attack at a depth of up to 400m.Also 2 torpedo attack on the key, Vietnamese Kilo also will be equipped with cruise missiles, most powerful and now most modern in Russia the 3M-54 Klub. According to the SIPRI Vietnam received 50/80 missiles.


Two torpedo TEST 71 and 53-65 combined with 3M-54 Klub missiles with range 200 km, constitute the 3 perfect weapon for Vietnamese Kilo (photo : ausairpower)

3M-54E missiles has 8.22 m long, 0.53 m diameter, weight 2.300 kg, fitted armor piercing warhead weighs 200 kg explosive fragmentation. Rocket can reach cruising speed of Mach 2.9 (nearly 3 times faster the speed of sound), a range of 200 km.3M-54E probe integrated navigation ARGS-54 active radar target detection is of nearly 60 km. That is the way target range of 60 km, the rocket ammo will automatically detect, catch and target key grip without interference from the launch vehicle.