Vietnam Defence Forum

[Carlosa]

well, I think there is not enough room/place on TT400 gunship for antiship missile such as Uran.

this is the gunship (credit to @madokafc):

how will you put the missiles (kh-35 or x-35) and missile guidance radars as seen below on Molynia? the only solution is we enlarge the ship and superstructure. if we do that, the new gunship could carry antiship missiles and store weapons. that will be indeed a big thing for the navy: 12 more missile boats or more, since we can self produce them.

Its really no problem to add the missiles and the fire control radar, it has already being done.

The TT-400TP is a derivative of the LAN design from Ukraine, which is also very similar to the Svetlyak design (Vietnam also bought that one, they are almost identical).

Both of those designs have a version with missiles, no need to enlarge the ship, it just has to be planned with the missiles. Like I said before, the TT-400TP is almost the same size as the Molniya class (The Molniya is 56 meters, the TT-400TP is 54 meters). The Molniya class has 4 quadruple launchers with 4 KH-35 missiles each, in the TT-400TP you can set up 2 of those launchers with a total of 8 missiles.

Here are the samples of those 2 designs with missiles:

This is the 10411 Svetlyak class missile ship, the missiles go in the place where the TT-400TP has the raft boat. I think this is the best design for the missiles.

This is the LAN design (missile version of the LAN), this is the design that VN bought and used to make the TT-400TP. The pic shows a good view of the radars. Only one radar is needed for fire control of the KH-35 and it can be located where the front Igla launcher is now placed in the TT-400TP. The radar can also be placed on the mast; the radars on the current mast of the TT-400TP. are actually kind of low, they can be moved up, so there is no space issue whatsoever.

As you can see, its no problem to make a version of the TT-400TP with missiles, its just a matter of deciding to do it. Why Vietnam doesn't do it, I have no idea. The TT-400TP is a corvette size ship (light corvette), what's the point these days of making a corvette without missiles?

I think VN can do a lot more than what it does in terms of defense equipment. Sometimes I wonder if the vietnamese military has the complex of "made in Vietnam is not good or is bad quality, better buy imported". As you know, most vietnamese people think like that about made in Vietnam products.

The TT-400TP is cheap and VN can make it very fast. Weapon systems and sensors have to be bought, everything else is self made in Vietnam (I think VN can also start to do the search radar and fire control radars, if nothing else with the help of doing some reverse engineering like the chinese do.) VN could make a large number of those ships, cheaply, fast and that would make a nice difference in the balance of power in the region. From there, the next step is to make enlarged versions as larger corvettes and frigates, why not?

Note: If the TT-400TP design gets modified to carry missiles, the ship needs just a little bit of redesign for that, but actually, it would be better to fully redesign the superstructure of the ship in order to have much better stealth features. At present, only the front of the superstructure is designed for stealth, the rest of it has no stealth features at all.

 

[Viet]

carlosa, you are right. I don´t know, either, why the navy does not equip the gunboats with antiship missiles.

here is an interesting question, is Vietnam navy strong enough?

Naval Admiral Nguyen Van Hien (R, 2nd) answers this crucial question: he states the Vietnamese Navy arranged in close and firm formations at sea, on islands and ashore, is strong enough to address any aggression.

 

[Viet]

patrol vessels of fishery department

fighter pilots

a better image of US General Dempsey taking a look at a MiG-21 during his recent visit to VN.
now he knows we are poorly equipped and need urgently modern aircraft

radar station listening the south china sea

I had these in mind:

There was another one with the Uran configured like your current Gepard.

To carry a ASW heli, a hangar would be needed as it provides a proper workspace for the engineers to perform maintenence on the heli and re-arm/resupply. e. g. the lighting, shelter, storage for tools, equipment, etc.

here we are: a heli on a Gepard frigate

 

[Carlosa]

Interesting article to read. A group of 20 retired military officers has written an open letter calling on the leaders of Vietnam’s ruling Communist Party to ensure that the armed forces safeguard the country’s citizens, citing military and police involvement in cracking down on anti-China protests and evicting villagers in land disputes.

Former Military Officers Say Vietnam Armed Forces Must Protect The People

 

[Carlosa]

carlosa, you are right. I don´t know, either, why the navy does not equip the gunboats with antiship missiles.

here is an interesting question, is Vietnam navy strong enough?

Naval Admiral Nguyen Van Hien (R, 2nd) answers this crucial question: he states the Vietnamese Navy arranged in close and firm formations at sea, on islands and ashore, is strong enough to address any aggression.

I don't see a link to the article, but I had read it before.

Of course not !!!!!!!! The Vietnamese navy is extremely weak at the moment and it will continue to be too weak in the near future considering the present threats. That article is just a political statement to make people feel good.

Right now the surface fleet only has 7 modern ships with modern missiles (4 Molniya class, 2 Gepards and 1 BPS-500), how can that be considered enough? Everything else is outdated.
Even when all the ships on ordered get received, that's still far from enough.

The Kilo purchase is the only real highlight of the procurement program, but the surface fleet is way too weak. Actually, they should start to work on the next batch of 6 subs, a different design this time to complement the Kilos, the subs are the only thing that makes a difference. If there is a conflict with China, the surface fleet has to stay in port, otherwise........... you know.

Don't mean to be pessimistic, but reality is reality. Have to have the assets to back up the tough words.

 

[Carlosa]

Another good article to read: Vietnam's Pivot. Foreign Affairs.com

David Brown | Vietnam's Pivot to the United States | Foreign Affairs | Foreign Affairs

 

[Nike]

I don't see a link to the article, but I had read it before.

Of course not !!!!!!!! The Vietnamese navy is extremely weak at the moment and it will continue to be too weak in the near future considering the present threats. That article is just a political statement to make people feel good.

Right now the surface fleet only has 7 modern ships with modern missiles (4 Molniya class, 2 Gepards and 1 BPS-500), how can that be considered enough? Everything else is outdated.
Even when all the ships on ordered get received, that's still far from enough.

The Kilo purchase is the only real highlight of the procurement program, but the surface fleet is way too weak. Actually, they should start to work on the next batch of 6 subs, a different design this time to complement the Kilos, the subs are the only thing that makes a difference. If there is a conflict with China, the surface fleet has to stay in port, otherwise........... you know.

Don't mean to be pessimistic, but reality is reality. Have to have the assets to back up the tough words.

need more OTHT platform to acquire and support more precision attacks toward their intended target

 

[Viet]

I don't see a link to the article, but I had read it before.

Of course not !!!!!!!! The Vietnamese navy is extremely weak at the moment and it will continue to be too weak in the near future considering the present threats. That article is just a political statement to make people feel good.

Right now the surface fleet only has 7 modern ships with modern missiles (4 Molniya class, 2 Gepards and 1 BPS-500), how can that be considered enough? Everything else is outdated.
Even when all the ships on ordered get received, that's still far from enough.

The Kilo purchase is the only real highlight of the procurement program, but the surface fleet is way too weak. Actually, they should start to work on the next batch of 6 subs, a different design this time to complement the Kilos, the subs are the only thing that makes a difference. If there is a conflict with China, the surface fleet has to stay in port, otherwise........... you know.

Don't mean to be pessimistic, but reality is reality. Have to have the assets to back up the tough words.

here is the link to the aricle:
Vietnam navy able to defeat all marine attacks: Admiral

ha ha ha...you are pessimistic, but perhaps you are right. the Admiral means the combined forces will be able to address the aggression. the navy alone is too weak. he emphases the formations at sea, on islands and ashore.

Sure, I wish we have money for more subs, frigates, destroyers and aircraft. I believe we will get some more toys soon as the economy is growing at a healthy rate, generating money. I read the state budget receives more money than expected, and many foreign companies begin to pay tax as they make good profits and the grace period is over.

need more OTHT platform to acquire and support more precision attacks toward their intended target

do you have anything in mind?

 

[Viet]

Department of Information Technology’s headquarters inaugurated on September 9th. the new building costs VND 115.5 billion ($5.5m). Task: managing and developing information technology and ensuring military and defence information security.

the army appears pouring more money in encryption technology.

Radar Regiment 293 prepares tactical exercise to protect airspace over the capital Hanoi.

 

[Viet]

here is a better image. Commander of the Royal Thai Armed Forces Patimapragorn presented the order to Senior Lieutenant General Ty: the Knight Grand Cross (first class) of the Most Noble Order of the Crown of Thailand. ceremony is held in Bangkok on September 8.

 

[Nike]

hawkeye and orion will be a nice addition

 

[Viet]

hawkeye and orion will be a nice addition

yes, some media speculate Vietnam army has showed interest on Orion. but the US must end the arms embargo first.

 

[Carlosa]

need more OTHT platform to acquire and support more precision attacks toward their intended target

Correct, need to have AWACS planes, maritime patrol aircraft, drones, surveillance satellites, etc as well as the right stand off weapons. China has all that and plenty of it, they can easily detect and hit any vietnamese surface vessels with stand off weapons from stand off range, that's why the Vietnamese surface fleet have to stay in port. Only the submarines will be effective.

hawkeye and orion will be a nice addition

Most likely Vietnam will get the C-295 AWACS, it will not be easy to get the hawkeye from usa right away.

The modern battlefield requires a whole ecosystem of sensors and weapon systems, Vietnam is making progress, but is not there yet, it takes time and plenty of money.

Indonesia is also in the right track, slowly but steadily.
I feel Indonesia and Vietnam will be the 2 main powers in the region, both are very serious about rearming.

yes, some media speculate Vietnam army has showed interest on Orion. but the US must end the arms embargo first.

Yes, and I would say that if the embargo doesn't get lifted soon, then better get the C-295 maritime patrol / ASW version. Can't keep waiting for ever for USA.

 

[Viet]

Correct, need to have AWACS planes, maritime patrol aircraft, drones, surveillance satellites, etc as well as the right stand off weapons. China has all that and plenty of it, they can easily detect and hit any vietnamese surface vessels with stand off weapons from stand off range, that's why the Vietnamese surface fleet have to stay in port. Only the submarines will be effective..

if we get the Tomahawk, that will be a new game. John McCain appears to be our friend for new toys. I like the idea of having a fleet of Aegis destroyers with Tomahawk. He wants to save jobs at Raytheon. We can help him a bit.

http://tucson.com/news/local/mccain-promises-continued-support-for-tomahawk-and-a/article_3ee28148-fb38-5bd7-b54e-7fa136e154cb.html

 

[Carlosa]

here is the link to the aricle:
Vietnam navy able to defeat all marine attacks: Admiral

ha ha ha...you are pessimistic, but perhaps you are right. the Admiral means the combined forces will be able to address the aggression. the navy alone is too weak. he emphases the formations at sea, on islands and ashore.

Sure, I wish we have money for more subs, frigates, destroyers and aircraft. I believe we will get some more toys soon as the economy is growing at a healthy rate, generating money. I read the state budget receives more money than expected, and many foreign companies begin to pay tax as they make good profits and the grace period is over.

Well, it seems to me that he is just talking about the navy including the forces already in the islands and ashore (I guess meaning the coastal defense batteries which are part of the navy, but anyway, the overall force is too weak and it can do best if the conflict is near the vietnamese coastlines, particularly defending against intruding forces or disrupting shipping, but if the vietnamese navy has to go out into the open, they would be easy prey for the chinese. Its easy for them to locate ships.

Do you remember when the Malaysian airliner disappeared and the chinese satellites were scanning the ocean trying to find debris of the plane? Well, those were surveillance satellites scanning by optical means, there are also satellites scanning the ocean with radar, plus drones (They have a lot of drones), marine patrol aircraft, AWACS and their own surface ships, that's a big ecosystem for surveillance.

In a conflict or in a situation leading to a conflict, you can bet that they will be monitoring the vietnamese naval bases and will track any ship that leaves port. These days is not easy for surface ships to hide, that's why I say that they have to stay in port; only the submarines can navigate undetected. In order to leave port and have a chance to survive, it has to be a powerful fleet with the type of ships that Vietnam doesn't have at the moment.

if we get the Tomahawk, that will be a new game. John McCain appears to be our friend for new toys.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ch.jpg/800px-USN_Tactical_Tomahawk_launch.jpg

Yes, need to have long range stand off weapons, long range cruise missiles is one good way to go, particularly the Brahmos since it is supersonic and very difficult to intercept, that's why Vietnam is very interested in it. The Tomahawk is subsonic, its actually an old design in many ways and its easy to intercept.

if we get the Tomahawk, that will be a new game. John McCain appears to be our friend for new toys. I like the idea of having a fleet of Aegis destroyers with Tomahawk. He wants to save jobs at Raytheon. We can help him a bit.

http://tucson.com/news/local/mccain-promises-continued-support-for-tomahawk-and-a/article_3ee28148-fb38-5bd7-b54e-7fa136e154cb.html

Sounds good, but VN will need some friends to donate a few billions.