US urges India to avoid Pakistan-centric policies

[Spring Onion]

Er...so Keralites' tolerance is all thanks to islam?

ehhh do u have any sense of humor or not?

but anyway i like Kealiets as they much more rolerent than rest of the indians

 

[Marathaman]

ehhh do u have any sense of humor or not?

but anyway i like Kealiets as they much more rolerent than rest of the indians

Lol....thats your idea of a joke?

Keralites are cool people....thats true.

 

[Mustapha]

Salaams,

Indians probably saw the First muslims, by trading with them near Kerala. However the Chola Dynasty made much of Kerala, Tamil Nadu, and a bit of Karnataka and even maybe Orissa.
So basically there were already established empires in the south, which means expect heavy resistance to anyone who tried to make a new empire in the place.
Thats why Muslims established their Kingdoms in the North and NorthWestern Areas where Sindh and FATA are, because at that time, there was not only Hindus, but also Jains, Zorastrians (Parsis, I think) = Little resistance...
Plus at that time Persia (Was Sunni at that time), Transxionia, and Afganistan could easily spread Islam, by just going through the Khyber Pass or assist any Arab settlement in Sindh/Gujurat.

About people not being able to go to their religious structures...
I thought India, was a declared Secular state... in which people are allowed to be affiliated with whatever religion they want to be, or in other words Religious Freedom 100% guranteed. If that the case, why wouldn't people be allowed to go to their religious buildings. I know there is a considerable amount of Muslims there. Even some Christians are there...

 

[Spring Onion]

Good posts Mustapha i had added repu to your points.

BTW Kerala was included in India much later ??
Isnt it ?

 

[Marathaman]

Salaams,

Indians probably saw the First muslims, by trading with them near Kerala. However the Chola Dynasty made much of Kerala, Tamil Nadu, and a bit of Karnataka and even maybe Orissa.
So basically there were already established empires in the south, which means expect heavy resistance to anyone who tried to make a new empire in the place.
Thats why Muslims established their Kingdoms in the North and NorthWestern Areas where Sindh and FATA are, because at that time, there was not only Hindus, but also Jains, Zorastrians (Parsis, I think) = Little resistance...
Plus at that time Persia (Was Sunni at that time), Transxionia, and Afganistan could easily spread Islam, by just going through the Khyber Pass or assist any Arab settlement in Sindh/Gujurat.

About people not being able to go to their religious structures...
I thought India, was a declared Secular state... in which people are allowed to be affiliated with whatever religion they want to be, or in other words Religious Freedom 100% guranteed. If that the case, why wouldn't people be allowed to go to their religious buildings. I know there is a considerable amount of Muslims there. Even some Christians are there...

Yeah..there are a lot of Christians there as well. The Hindus there though are very strict with their practices thats all.
What does entering a temple have to do with secularism?

 

[Mustapha]

Salaams,

A secularist state basically means the country does not have a special status for any religion.

For example in Iran, Islam has a special status, Also in Pakistan, and also in Saudi Arabia, Libya, etc.

However if you look at Netherlands, France, Sweden they don't care about your religion, they just care if you care about the nation. Likewise in India, they don't care if you are Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist/Jain/Sikh.

If India was Declared a Hindu a state and not a secular one, All the Muslims, Christians (just look at the list above) would have to run away.

Thats why there was Partition, because most Hindu wanted a secular Indian nation ( Sort of like Desis for only Desis). This was the age of Nationalism. However the Muslims disagreed. Indian Muslims wanted Muslim state, (like the Mughal Empire). Thats how Pakistan & India was born. India as a country didn't care about religion as long as you were nationalistic. While Pakistanis wanted people who serve Islam, not the land they were living on.

Now the question arises what does secularism have to do with people going in their Temples, Churchs, Mosques. Well if India was a Hindu state, I really would doubt if there would be any religious minorities...

---> ty Jana

 

[Marathaman]

So what is your point?

[Admin Edit: Next time use the PM system for such that.

Thanks!]

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Most of the conversions in india were not forced, but rather islam provided equality to all regardless of your skin color and caste system and that was the major factor in people converting to islam in the sub-continent and they came in droves ( now don't get me wrong).

Just by changing your religion, you became and were accepted as an equal human being with equal rights just like any other citizen, why would anyone wanted to be left behind. Suddenly the high caste hindu was not the only beloved of god but Allah loved them all equally without prejudice.

If islam was indeed spread by force in india, hinduism would have been a part of the history books----case in point---spain---after the victory by the catholics in spain in the 1400's, there was no muslim or jew left alive in spain. Either they were killed, forced to change religion or they emigrated. Canyou believe it---nobody left after 700 years of rule.

Why do you think that hindu heirarchy is so much against pakistan----it is because our predessesors took all the power away from the hindu temples and the brahmin became a nobody---a brahmin in front of whom the kings would bow down to---suddenly this untouchable shooder converts to islam and now he can stand in front of the brahmin and tells him that he is an equal----. Centuries ago, this brahmin took a vow to totally annihilate us one day.

We may have forgotten what may have happened, but they have not.

 

[EagleEyes]

Everybody, one person has been sent out a warning in this thread. So please be careful of what you post. You get caught, you get shot.

Thanks.

 

[Contrarian]

Hi,

Most of the conversions in india were not forced, but rather islam provided equality to all regardless of your skin color and caste system and that was the major factor in people converting to islam in the sub-continent and they came in droves ( now don't get me wrong).

Just by changing your religion, you became and were accepted as an equal human being with equal rights just like any other citizen, why would anyone wanted to be left behind. Suddenly the high caste hindu was not the only beloved of god but Allah loved them all equally without prejudice.

If islam was indeed spread by force in india, hinduism would have been a part of the history books----case in point---spain---after the victory by the catholics in spain in the 1400's, there was no muslim or jew left alive in spain. Either they were killed, forced to change religion or they emigrated. Canyou believe it---nobody left after 700 years of rule.

Why do you think that hindu heirarchy is so much against pakistan----it is because our predessesors took all the power away from the hindu temples and the brahmin became a nobody---a brahmin in front of whom the kings would bow down to---suddenly this untouchable shooder converts to islam and now he can stand in front of the brahmin and tells him that he is an equal----. Centuries ago, this brahmin took a vow to totally annihilate us one day.

We may have forgotten what may have happened, but they have not.

Your post is a joke with not one ounce of reality or truth. Is this what they teach you in Pakistani schools? That Brahmins hated Islam and they vowed revenge?!

 

[Spring Onion]

Your post is a joke with not one ounce of reality or truth. Is this what they teach you in Pakistani schools? That Brahmins hated Islam and they vowed revenge?!

Malay IMHO he is giving his own view and he as much entiled to it as you and me are.
In his post he did not say that it is written somewhere.

While there is nothing like any joke in his post you need to read it carefully.

AS far the Brahmins well they not only hate Muslims but its a fact that they also hate their own people called the poor Dalits who are Hindus but unfortunatly become victims to Brahmins' hate through out the history.

 

[Munir]

We must overreact about what we know about the hindu system. It has its positive ideas and surely, like others, some bad parts. Do remember that like muslim have big local cultural content mixed up as part of the islam it does not mean that it is all like Mohammed told us to do. Even if we look at Islam the most negative way we could not come close to the robbery and murdering of christianity which now claims to be more evolved. We must remember that during Islamic revolution the different societies were allowed to be there and were not buthcered like western societies did. In the past muslims and hindus lived peaceful together. Soem tend to abuse differences to exploit the situation. I do not want to join that group.

The topic is that S told that... My answer is that I rather accept that from India then the goodweather attitude of the USA... The US government at the moment misused power and degrade others. It is purely greed. Otherwise the Palestinian case or Irac would have been a different one.

 

[dabong1]

Dalit Voice - The Voice of the Persecuted Nationalities Denied Human Rights

Brahmins hate caste-based quota & ask us to forget caste — but use caste when it suits them
The Times of India, Bangalore, on June 17, 2007 put out a report on the “politically neglected” Karnataka Brahmins, who form just 3%, giving them ideas so that they could also like UP form some “caste combination” to come to power.

The reporters met some Brahmin politicians to goad them to action but found the response too discouraging. To their utter shock they found these Brahmins not only a micro-minority caste but also the most hated lot and trusted by no other castes.

So much so the 3% Brahmins, ignored by everybody else, have finally beelined to BJP and made it their home.

Caste composition

There are 42 lakh Brahmins in Karnataka, of which 15 lakh are in Bangalore, according to H.N. Hiriyannaswamy of Akhila Karnataka Brahmana Mahasabha (AKMS).

Smartha Brahmins have 12 subcastes.
Madhwa Brahmins 4 subcastes and 14 mutts.
Srivaishnava Brahmins 5 subcastes.
Brahmins in India as a whole have 65 subcastes. (Source: website of AKBM)
How to deceive people: The Times even published a cartoon giving ideas to their jatwalas about capturing political power: make all other non-Brahmin castes fight each other. As they get busy fighting, you quickly climb to the top of ladder. This is the good old time-tested Brahminical trick of divide and rule. And it is still working in their favour in many parts of the country.

But there is one point which the Times journalists did not answer. Day in day out, these Brahmin journalists ridicule the politicians, call them corrupt, manufacture all sorts of stories to malign them to make them the most hated lot. Why then they want the Brahmins to get into the same “political class”?

Hate-Muslim campaign not working: They are trying through their toilet papers (English dailies are read by not even 4% of the country’s population) to make us hate the politicians. But the reality is despite their best efforts to weaken the legislature, boost the judiciary, media, IT, financial sector, educational institutions etc., they find to their utter shock that the hated political power is the ultimate power. SC/ST/BCs and Muslim/Christian/Sikhs — 85% who constitute the Bahujans —alone have the strength of numbers. And the Brahmins being mere 3% can never gain political power. Their good old game of instigating “Hindus” against Muslims has stopped working. They are deeply worried and this worry has made them think of the UP formula of “caste combination”.

The Brahmins being a cunning clan also know the UP formula is confined only to UP where the Brahmin percentage is as high as 15. It can’t be extended to any other state. (DV Edit June 1, 2007: “Dalits alone can protect Brahmin life & property: Lessons of UP election”).

 

[Munir]

We can say that muslims in Africa are seen as second grade... If jews all helped all over the world by israel. If Christians are defended by western powers then tell my why is it possible that while all the wealth is souped in arab nations at the same time muslims are cornered and murdered in such numbers that no one is intrested in them. Most of the time that people die with hunger then explain me why it is muslims... I say that maybe arabs god the god given luck to be hosting Mahammed they are worser then christians and jews. I can loop upwards and accept the fate cause I do not rely on other peoples opinions but my faith in respect and equality of all. No matter what religeon they have accepted.

 

[Marathaman]

Dabong, that is a very silly article indeed. The "newspaper" dalit voice is so full of caste-hatred that it ends up having completely opposite effect from what is intended.

Day in day out, these Brahmin journalists ridicule the politicians, call them corrupt, manufacture all sorts of stories to malign them to make them the most hated lot.

Lol?? Has the reporter just lost his mind?

But the reality is despite their best efforts to weaken the legislature, boost the judiciary, media, IT, financial sector, educational institutions etc., they find to their utter shock that the hated political power is the ultimate power.

So for this guy, ridiculing politicians (who btw deserve nothing but ridicule) is equivalent to weakening the legislature.
Moreover, "boosting" the judiciary, whatever that is, media, financial sector etc is a bad thing which the brahmins are doing to suit their own interests. Someone needs to go tell this guy to grow up.

The Brahmins being a cunning clan

This newspaper, as I said, is filled with nothing but caste hatred against brahmins. Even if this guy does have some valid points, they will never be taken seriously since hes personal hatred of brahmins overcomes all.