US bill pledges $900m to Pakistan, links half of amount to certification

[graphican]

@everybody, @Kaptaan and @LeGenD,

By no means I want to go against USA, just as USA doesn't intend to go against Pakistan when it puts conditions upon its aid - and we find it absolutely normal. Now when it comes to putting conditions back on USA for USA doing few things for us, there is ho ho haha for some reason.

Pakistan shouldn't be USA's enemy, it doesn't need to be - but Pakistan needs few favours from USA which must come from them for the peaceful existence of Pakistan. There shouldn't be any concern lighting up in your heads when there is a talk of Pakistan defending its interests and that is on the same lines as USA.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Pakistan shouldn't be USA's enemy

I think Pak is doing a reasonable job of extracting from USA what it can. The biggest blunder though was after 9/11 by Musharaf. That spineless 'general' showed his lack of mettle or strategic thinking as seen in before in Kargil by essentially giving away Afghanistan to India on a platter.

There is no country on earth that could have refused USA after the mood that country was post 9/11 so it was given that Pak would allow US to attack Afghanistan by using it's airbases and logistics. That is a given. However no country on earth would allow a neighbour being reconfigured without being there to make sure change that comes is in a shape that is not contrary to it's interests.

Meaning Pak should have gone with US into Afghanistan with the agreement that you can have OBL/Al Qaidea but we will go in there to make sure Northern Alliance does not end up sat in Kabul. In short Pak should have gone into to make sure a a group or groups was banded together but excluded Northern Alliance. You can see how Turks keep going into Syria to bend things in their favour - that make sure kurds don't end up on top. There is a lesson there for Pak.

Instead Musharaf for few billions let US inside Afghanistan and failed to pursue it's own foreign policy objectives. US went in there to do what it had to do. Pak should have been there to do what it had to do. That failure might one day haunt Pakistan more then what you see today.

 

[graphican]

I think Pak is doing a reasonable job of extracting from USA what it can. The biggest blunder though was after 9/11 by Musharaf. That spineless 'general' showed his lack of mettle or strategic thinking as seen in before in Kargil by essentially giving away Afghanistan to India on a platter.

There is no country on earth that could have refused USA after the mood that country was post 9/11 so it was given that Pak would allow US to attack Afghanistan by using it's airbases and logistics. That is a given. However no country on earth would allow a neighbour being reconfigured without being there to make sure change that comes is in a shape that is not contrary to it's interests.

Meaning Pak should have gone with US into Afghanistan with the agreement that you can have OBL/Al Qaidea but we will go in there to make sure Northern Alliance does not end up sat in Kabul. In short Pak should have gone into to make sure a a group or groups was banded together but excluded Northern Alliance. You can see how Turks keep going into Syria to bend things in their favour - that make sure kurds don't end up on top. There is a lesson there for Pak.

Instead Musharaf for few billions let US inside Afghanistan and failed to pursue it's own foreign policy objectives. US went in there to do what it had to do. Pak should have been there to do what it had to do. That failure might one day haunt Pakistan more then what you see today.

Thanks for putting light on the past. I do not think Pakistan did wrong what it did in the past, but there is a need to correct its course for the future. India cannot terrorise Pakistan from western border and USA cannot let india do its dirty games, if it expects support from Pakistan.

Pakistan got to put its weight to get above and USA must offer above if it wants some support in Afghanistan. Previously, Pakistan could not make USA do anything as its own territory was bleeding - but under current scenarios where China, Russia and many countries of the world are aligning up with you, when terrorism is nearly dead, when Karachi is non-malleable, when China is fully aligned with you, Pakistan can do what it wants to do.

There will be some cost, sure thing, but there is no cost which is unbearable. That lays down my point.

 

[Hassan Guy]

Lets buy some F-35's

 

[LeGenD]

1. Pak is already diversifying by acquiring critical weapons and ToT from China. The joint ventures speak for themselves. No joint venture between Pakistan and the US.

I see the wisdom in diversification but China cannot fulfill our defense-related needs on its own. China is not on par with the US, Russia, and several other countries in certain technology-related matters. And neither we should depend on a single country for our defense-related needs. To elaborate my point further with a few examples:-

1. JF-17 aircraft comprises of Russian engine.
2. Al-Khalid MBT comprises of Ukranian engine, and several other components imported from European states.
3. Turkey will modernize Agosta submarines.

We still need to be on friendly terms with the Americans because there support is necessary for acquiring weapons from a number of sources (American and others), and also to maintain/upgrade our weapons of American origin including a large number of aircraft and helicopters. Otherwise, a huge sum of our investment would be at stake.

In the nutshell, even if we do not have a joint venture with the US in the matters of arms, it does not diminishes the importance of American support in the slightest.

2. Our reliance on IMF will see a sharp drop in the coming years as CPEC continues to reap the dividends. In fact, it is already happening if you have been following the news lately. Lagarde's visit to Pakistan speaks volume.

Perhaps, but not anytime soon. And not just that but we need to address the menace of corruption, political instability and adopt a sound foreign policy, to fix our economic woes for long-term. Otherwise, we will keep running back to IMF to sustain our economy from time-to-time. It is a vicious cycle.

After 25 years of a push and pull relationship with the IMF, Pakistan has decided it would no longer seek IMF's assistance-well, until it does, or has to. For most countries, IMF is a fall-back plan, the last resort, a financing arrangement that comes with many chains but for Pakistan, IMF has been the gift horse that keeps on giving.

Source: http://www.brecorder.com/company-ne...tan-and-imf-the-lies-we-tell/?date=2016-09-16

3. USAID doesn't remotely have the impact that Chinese investment has in Pakistan. There is no comparison. One is feeding by supplying the fish and the other is teaching to fish.

Because a large number of Pakistani fail to grasp the importance of investment in soft aspects of the economy, since they are not visible in the streets. We just look at roads and Metros and think that is everything. PML(N) syndrome in the works perhaps.

In case you didn't know, US aid to Pakistan is already minimal as compared to previous years. Many aid packages have been halted by the US congress etc. Your assesment that Pak economy will collapse without US aid support is untrue and inaccurate.

Really? Check the data from the World Bank: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/DT.ODA.ALLD.CD?locations=PK

Pakistan received 3.612 billion USD in economic assistance in 2014 alone. Compare this to 700 million USD in 2000.

You also tend to confuse contribution of IMF in sustaining Pakistani economy and investment of USAID in the soft aspects of Pakistani economy. These are two entirely different initiatives of economic investment in Pakistan.

Pakistani economy risked collapse during the tenure of PPP-led government and IMF came to the rescue upon request from PML(N)-led government after that. This is what I am talking about. Whenever Pakistani economy is on the brink, we knock on the door of IMF to bail us out.

This is the result of becoming addicted to aid. It is easy money. Standing on your own feet becomes too much of an ask for some. I'm glad our leadership and specifically the Pak army think otherwise. CPEC and other cooperation with China is a firm proof of that.

CPEC is definitely a step in the right direction but you continue to fail to see the root-cause of our problems: corruption, political instability, energy crises and lack of Industrial capability - are collectively the reason why Pakistan runs into economic crises time-and-again and than seeks assistance of IMF to bail it out. We are the culprits, stop cursing the AID that sustains us.

If we continue on the path of corruption and political instability in the future, even CPEC won't help us, and would be rather tainted by corruption.

 

[MadDog]

Pakistan is 25th largest economy out of 193 countries interms of PPP, 6th largest country by population and 5th largest military such aid should be stopped and isnt required, situation has improved we arent in 2008-13 insecurity ridden era with low gdp growth rate

 

[Path-Finder]

So the obama policy which was all influenced by indians towards Pakistan is being reassessed by the americans!? Too late, they have completely imploded their policy just on the advice of indians whispering in obama admin's ears. Now a completely different shift has taken place by Pakistan which brings Russia into the region while strengthening Chinese presence further, all because indians and their desires to dismantle Pakistan by whispering in obama's ears has landed flat on its arse. Trump can do all the huffing & puffing as big bad wolf he wants but the house of Pakistan is made of sturdier walls now, it ain't coming down!

 

[Hamza913]

They only do this so they can retain influence.

 

[HAIDER]

Here comes the Republicans.

 

[somebozo]

give Ash Carter few Million from the total sum as consultancy fees and she will sign anything..

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Thank you U.S.A. Also provide us zulos with hellfire missiles on urgent basis.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Some people with all the facts in their face refuse to see them. It's like talking to a concrete wall. How about this little 'bombshell'? Who do you think is the largest importer of Pakistani products? Yes, USA.

USA - 13.6%
EU countries - 18 %

Link > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_trade_of_Pakistan

I have already stated the principles of foreign policy - that where they converge there is interests, where they diverge there are contradictions. In this scheme Pakistan is getting what it can extract from USA. Both sides are in a continous state of tustle to get the best deal. That is how it works.

Without a doubt the contra indications are increasing and convergence is receding but there is still some miles left in this relationship. USA is still going to matter for some decades although Pakistan needs to focus on China as that is where the future lies.

However I have made many postings on CPEC. The future of Pak/China is going to remain limited to big talk, some tarmac but little substance unless both countries align with each other.

Here were are back to the early days of Pakistan and the budding relationship with West under Ayub Khan. That big hope and his attempts to create a common market with trade preferances failed because there was no civilizational, poolitical or cultural common ground. The exact predicament if not more faces Pakistan now with China.

For Pakistan to move forward and develop a full spectrum relationship with China will require major changes in the Pakistani mindset. I would argue the space between China and Pak is greater than West and Pak. China is full on rampant secular, athiest, revolutionery society which is directly conta to the deeply religious, conservation tradition bound culture and society in Pakistan. If people think Pak can go forward very far with China holding that mindset they are badly mistaken.

A sea change in Pakistani mentality and though is required or else besides some tarmac, singing songs "Pak Chini love" there is nothing substantive going to be gained. Soon enough behind closed doors all Paks will be talking about is the shameless Chinese women and their promiscuity, drinking alcohol and parties. That is not going to cut any favours with Chinese.

The grass is greener over the horizon. There has been little contact between most Paks with Chinese. Most of it is limited to officials, diplomats talking in meetings, singing songs. Whereas with the West there is million one to one contact everyday as millions of Pakistani's either live or visit the West. It indeed will be interesting when the deciples of full on turbo atheism and forced secularism engage with the religious driven Muslims of Pakistan.

Something is going to have to give and I know it is not going to be the Chinese.

@Sinopakfriend

.

My dear friend,

What is 'is'...what is not..is niether is'' nor 'not'. Essence of the Way.

Do forgive me for being forward, Pak does not act as a State that wishes to grow, wishes to be.

Hence, the transactional nature of things...this is equally visibly in all Meta Facets of the current state of your old country. There is just NO policy at all.... all just reactions for immediate challenges, surviving for another day is not policy.

When a diamond does not realise its nature then its nothing but carbon/coal.

Pak State must cultivate deeper relationships with all Four Direction. Without such a consistent and well thought through policy... ship of state shall remain stuck in the infernal mud, at the mercy of the old and new exploiters.

The need of the Hour is new Dialectic Disource. Once grounded Dialectic Acceleration can take form... which you have be preaching for some time now.

Remain committed to your vision.


SPF

 

[YeBeWarned]

Eventually the Relationship between US and Pakistan will see a bitter end ..
cause there is no Friendship its just interests and as far as US is in the Region it will keep this region destabilize by various Proxies .... Pakistan can and will not stay away from US for various reasons ..
but the Rising threat of ISIS growing in Afghanistan right under the nose of US ..ahmm that puts a Huge Question mark on US Intentions .

 

[Cash GK]

Pakistan in in the position to put conditions upon USA, specially for its cooperation / mission in Afghanistan.

Gone are days when USA could arm twist Pakistan and get few favours just by threatening. now US aid is conditional, cooperation from Pakistan should also be conditional. Somebody got to restore National pride and teat USA on equal terms.

I am afraid nawaz shif will lose this just to safe his a***........

 

[prashantazazel]

It looks like the lasso is being whirled to have a perfect shot around Iran's neck...

No one will touch Iran till it has the support of India and china.