U.S. Starts Shipping Out, via Risky Pakistan Route

[W.11]

saalon ko route bhi do, aur nakhre bhi bardasht karo

route he band kerdo saalon ka, jaa kahi aur se nikal

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

despite the occasional risks - they've determined its the only real viable and economically rational route since Karachi is more conducive than going through a network of warlords' turf toll charges and more complex terrain

as for "taming" the Afghan badlands and the border areas by Pakistan -- it is assumed that once NATO leaves in a responsible fashion and the Afghan reconciliation process is allowed to flourish then there would be no "out of control" business (as implied by an indian here -- not in those words)

of course anything could happen but then again the NATO mission is at a point where its partly a destabilizing factor since the talebs and other groups wont put down their weapons until the 'invaders' leave

 

[W.11]

So nearly 500 military vehicles and 333 containers daily for a year .......

God bless America ...... Then God bless Pakistan

abe apne maths to pehle saahi ker ke aa, accountant

 

[Vassnti]

of course anything could happen but then again the NATO mission is at a point where its partly a destabilizing factor since the talebs and other groups wont put down their weapons until the 'invaders' leave

What makes you think they will "put them down" once the yanks are gone? We heard the same thing in Iraq but the bombings and shootings continue. Half of them couldn’t give a rats about America, it’s just a convenient cover for a bandit extortion and kidnapping gang the other half also doesn’t give a rats about America they will keep killing till their version of Islam is the only one in Pakistan.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

What makes you think they will "put them down" once the yanks are gone? We heard the same thing in Iraq but the bombings and shootings continue. Half of them couldn’t give a rats about America, it’s just a convenient cover for a bandit extortion and kidnapping gang the other half also doesn’t give a rats about America they will keep killing till their version of Islam is the only one in Pakistan.

i agree that not all factions will put their weapons down even post-NATO....b/c that's sure as hell not what happened when the imperialistic soviets licked their wounds and withdrew

at the end of the day the onus really is on Afghans

 

[Wood]

What makes you think they will "put them down" once the yanks are gone? We heard the same thing in Iraq but the bombings and shootings continue. Half of them couldn’t give a rats about America, it’s just a convenient cover for a bandit extortion and kidnapping gang the other half also doesn’t give a rats about America they will keep killing till their version of Islam is the only one in Pakistan.

When the Americans leave, Afghanistan will have some serious problems as the Taliban try to take charge. But why do you suppose that Pakistan will experience more sectarian conflict than it does today? After all, the Shia community in Pakistan is not known to take revenge.

 

[Vassnti]

When the Americans leave, Afghanistan will have some serious problems as the Taliban try to take charge. But why do you suppose that Pakistan will experience more sectarian conflict than it does today? After all, the Shia community in Pakistan is not known to take revenge.

I dont suppose there will be more, i would pray that there is less sadly it seems my prayers are seldom answered. What i dont belive if that the magic peace fairy will appear the moment the US leaves. What you will have is angry young men with guns training and years being told it is their God given task to kill the kafirs.

Now they could all hand in their weapons, trade their image of being a brave Mujahideen and go to work at Dads fruit stall for a wage that might mean they could save for a future. There is nothing as seductive as power, the taliban walk into a village they do what they want, take what they want. How many young men would give that up for a life of 9 to 5 and being told what to do by thier Aunties?

Maybe IK is right and i am wrong but i am not alone in expecting the worst.

Time for Shias to leave Pakistan | Blog | DAWN.COM

 

[Wood]

I dont suppose there will be more, i would pray that there is less sadly it seems my prayers are seldom answered. What i dont belive if that the magic peace fairy will appear the moment the US leaves. What you will have is angry young men with guns training and years being told it is their God given task to kill the kafirs.

Now they could all hand in their weapons, trade their image of being a brave Mujahideen and go to work at Dads fruit stall for a wage that might mean they could save for a future. There is nothing as seductive as power, the taliban walk into a village they do what they want, take what they want. How many young men would give that up for a life of 9 to 5 and being told what to do by thier Aunties?

Maybe IK is right and i am wrong but i am not alone in expecting the worst.

It is likely that Pakistan will deal with this bulge the same way it dealt with it in the post Soviet era. The hapless recipient to its east should brace itself and be better prepared for round two.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

They are planning bases, if they don't have us on board..........use your imagination.

But will you be on board? Considering this:

It is clear as day that Americans are here to **** us [Asia], this continent,our economies,our prosperity,the future of our childern and even our puppy dog is ours to lose.

 

[Kompromat]

But will you be on board? Considering this:

That depends on who comes into office this time. Yanks are trying the hardest they can to bring an Anti China,Anti Iran,Pro US,Pro India puppet.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

That depends on who comes into office this time. Yanks are trying the hardest they can to bring an Anti China,Anti Iran,Pro US,Pro India puppet.

Western armed presence is no good for this region.

Think about it, how many suicide bombings have you heard of in this region before America came in 2001?

It was almost unheard of before that. Today it is spreading like a wildfire across the entire region.

People are dying in Asia, so that Americans can sit comfortably in front of their televisions and grow fat. I think any Asian leader who helps the Americans to do this deserves the most severe punishment that can possibly be inflicted upon a human being.

 

[Kompromat]

Western armed presence is no good for this region.

Think about it, how many suicide bombings have you heard of in this region before America came in 2001?

It was almost unheard of before that. Today it is spreading like a wildfire across the entire region.

People are dying in Asia, so that Americans can sit comfortably in front of their televisions and grow fat. I think any Asian leader who helps the Americans to do this deserves the most severe punishment that can possibly be inflicted upon a human being.

An Asia WITHOUT America is a peaceful Asia. They are not here to fight the Taliban, their target is ASIAN ECONOMIES & SCO.

 

[muse]

Inversely proportional/self feeding/Catch-22/Twin blade sword. What ever you call it!

It is clear as day that Americans are here to **** us [Asia], this continent,our economies,our prosperity,the future of our childern and even our puppy dog is ours to lose.

Excellent! Our US "friends" want that SOFA from the Afghans, Mr, Karzai and company promise that they will deliver Afghanistan to the US for decades to come, in want in return for the US to bring Pakistan to heel, and ensure that the enemy in Pakistan remains ill defined - all the while the US plans to not just screw Pakistan and Afghanistan but Asia (read China) by embroiling it in multiple conflicts which it's anointed are to manage on it's behalf (off shore balancing)

How can Pakistan persuade US policy makers that there is a better course of action for the US to protect her multiple interests and at the same time prevent conflict?

 

[Kompromat]

Excellent! Our US "friends" want that SOFA from the Afghans, Mr, Karzai and company promise that they will deliver Afghanistan to the US for decades to come, in want in return for the US to bring Pakistan to heel, and ensure that the enemy in Pakistan remains ill defined - all the while the US plans to not just screw Pakistan and Afghanistan but Asia (read China) by embroiling it in multiple conflicts which it's anointed are to manage on it's behalf (off shore balancing)

How can Pakistan persuade US policy makers that there is a better course of action for the US to protect her multiple interests and at the same time prevent conflict?

Its a question i was hoping that i would not have to hear

Anyway, since you brought it up, i believe that Pakistan is not the target alone. After they are done with us, they will move to India or some other "targets". There are two ways to look at it in my mind

1:Economic/Strategic: US trying to keep the Chinese import/export Shipping dependent sea routes under control therefore,keeping its leverage over Beijing, while denying them the "silk route". Never forget that world's largest workshop CAN reach its BIGGEST market via land. [Pakistan,Iran,Turkey--EU+ Iran---> GCC [3rd biggest market]].

That will deny the US a critical aspect of political leverage they hold over China by controlling their trade via USN. Oil Imports, well by 2015 China will import 1.5 billion BBL/Annam almost 85-90% of it via SEA---controlled by???---- Now come to commodities, Australia is the largest supplier of "The Red Dirt [Iron Ore]" and other vital minerals to China.....and that too is SHIPPED----controlled by ??

2: Philosophical: America looks at itself as a "Modern Empire" which rules through "Neo Colonialism", ruling countries through "local faces [NRO,Sharifs,Zardari,Karzai,House of saud,Al Thanis,Nahyaans,Husni mubarik,Sohartu,Zia,Musharraf,Bin ali, Saleh in Yamen and there is an endless list of puppets]". Since this model has been so successful so far, they want to evolve it into a new upgraded variant which will ensure "another American century".

The Philosophical/Historical battle is that Americans want to write history when it comes to "The Asian Century VS The American Century". You see, by 2027-30, 10 of us as of now poor Asian nations would have more economic and military power than America,NATO and EU put together. Which leads to a "Multi polar global power structure". NOW do you want a multi polar power structure [Multiple superpowers+Multiple middle weight countries] when you intend to write the history of the 21st century as the "American century"?......I, don't think so!

What are our options?


IMHO--- The day we Asians start seeing the Yankee presence in our region as "an Asian problem" and have an "Asian deterrence policy" we WILL have a credible & operate able solution to the American problem in Asia. Other than that, they will hunt us down 1 by 1.

Regards.

 

[muse]

Its a question i was hoping that i would not have to hear

Anyway, since you brought it up, i believe that Pakistan is not the target alone. After they are done with us, they will move to India or some other "targets". There are two ways to look at it in my mind

1:Economic/Strategic: US trying to keep the Chinese import/export Shipping dependent sea routes under control therefore,keeping its leverage over Beijing, while denying them the "silk route". Never forget that world's largest workshop CAN reach its BIGGEST market via land. [Pakistan,Iran,Turkey--EU+ Iran---> GCC [3rd biggest market]].

That will deny the US a critical aspect of political leverage they hold over China by controlling their trade via USN. Oil Imports, well by 2015 China will import 1.5 billion BBL/Annam almost 85-90% of it via SEA---controlled by???---- Now come to commodities, Australia is the largest supplier of "The Red Dirt [Iron Ore]" and other vital minerals to China.....and that too is SHIPPED----controlled by ??

2: Philosophical: America looks at itself as a "Modern Empire" which rules through "Neo Colonialism", ruling countries through "local faces [NRO,Sharifs,Zardari,Karzai,House of saud,Al Thanis,Nahyaans,Husni mubarik,Sohartu,Zia,Musharraf,Bin ali, Saleh in Yamen and there is an endless list of puppets]". Since this model has been so successful so far, they want to evolve it into a new upgraded variant which will ensure "another American century".

The Philosophical/Historical battle is that Americans want to write history when it comes to "The Asian Century VS The American Century". You see, by 2027-30, 10 of us as of now poor Asian nations would have more economic and military power than America,NATO and EU put together. Which leads to a "Multi polar global power structure". NOW do you wan't a multi polar power structure [Multiple superpowers+Multiple middle weight countries] when you intend to write the history of the 21st century as the "American century"?......I, don't think so!

What are our options?


IMHO--- The day we Asians start seeing the Yankee presence in our region as "an Asian problem" and have an "Asian deterrence policy" we WILL have a credible & operate able solution to the American problem in Asia. Other than that, they will hunt us down 1 by 1.

Regards.

I buy 1. but disagree with number 2, allow me to offer that the deal is not with individual puppets, but entire elites - The failure has been of the elites of these countries, that is to say these elites have been insincere not just with their countrymen but also with their sponsors - Now the US is a global power and has multiplicity of interests and many of these are valid, in a reasonable polity/political economy these interests should get a fair hearing, but of course a fair hearing is not a one way street as our US friends imagine it to be.

We must make a decision as to whether the world is better off with a US in it or better off with out the US, I would offer that the world is a better place with the US in it, now we must answer whether the US in our region is a net plus or a net negative, our task is complicated by our failures - that is to say that we are a net failure by our own choice and that to answer the second question, it is first required that we be a net success, otherwise it's to possible to answer the second question, after all, if one must go to the US's IMF and ADB with a begging bowl every other year, it's not really possible to answer that second question in any other way except in the affirmative, not that answering in the affirmative would be bad if we actually had a choice.

An Asian consciousness - yes, strongly support that idea and wish we could get through to others to see that the best way to "own" the Western heritage is by helping them take their armies and navies home or at least away from Asia