To No End: Why China’s Corruption Crackdown Won’t Be Stopping Soon

[LeveragedBuyout]

The leader of China typically holds three posts: General Secretary of CCP, which grants the power over personnel appointment; chairman of the central military commission, which grants the power over all Chinese military force and final the chairman the republic, which is the head of the state position, but it is purely ceremonial.

This is no different from other stable countries. In stable countries, leader of the state needs two authorities: 1. The ability to appoint personnel for different posts and 2. Control over military because ultimately legal authority of any constitution is only enforced by the strength of arms.

Understood, but at the same time, in most stable countries, there is a clear distinction between the party and the state, and fewer questions over whether the army is an arm of the party or an institution of the state. In China's case, it's a bit of both, which makes the political situation quite complicated. That's precisely why other users have pointed out that even though Hu was nominally in control of the army, the army did not feel the need to recognize this chain of command to the same degree the armies of stable countries unquestionably follow the directives of their leaders. Xi's control over the army, in contrast, seems to have less to do with his titles and more to do with his personal connections--this is an unsustainable condition. China needs to be a country of unambiguous laws, with deviation from those laws resulting in punishment. When that doesn't happen, that's the definition of corruption.

 

[kuge]

why this cruelty still happening in china?


江苏村民抗强征遭开发商碾毙 事发前乡长威胁“弄死你”

图片：图片显示，王怀成死状恐怖，脑浆溢出，溅洒一地，身体皮开肉绽，肠子拖出，尸体扭曲。（网络图片）
江苏淮安市近日发生一起由强征土地引发的命案。该市袁集乡政府和开发商强征土地，与村民发生冲突。上星期五，村民王怀成遭开发商指使的货车司机开车轧死。而事发前一天，王怀成曾与乡长发生口角，乡长威胁说要“弄死”他。
淮安市淮阴区袁集乡干庄村村民王怀成因不满当地政府低价强征土地，上周四与张姓乡长发生口角，第二天遭侯姓开发商指使一名货车司机拖行20多米致死。
记者周一致电干庄村，一名黄姓村民向记者证实了事件：“我就是干庄人。”
记者：“听说过王怀成这个人吗？”
黄姓村民：“听说过，他交通事故丶车祸死了。”
记者：“什么时候死的？”
黄姓村民：“几天了。”
记者：“为什么他被车轧死了?”
黄姓村民：“是强拆，黑社会，征地不给补偿。公安机关在调查了。”
袁集乡的一名村民周一告诉记者，王怀成死状极为恐怖，现场惨烈。
记者：“是不是有人因为强拆的事被人轧死了？”
袁集乡村民：“是，有，是干庄的。那人被轧死了很惨的，是有人故意的，肝脏都轧出来了，不敢看。”
据海外“茉莉花革命网站”周一报道，政府以低价违法征地600亩，开发商也无征地手续，引发村民不满。事发前一天，张乡长威胁王怀成：“明天就弄 死你”，开发商侯广轩也扬言要花钱买10条人命，当天王怀成妻子和女儿被乡政府人员打伤入院，村民打110和市长热线，但没有任何结果。
记者周一在新浪微博上联系到一名上传照片的现场目击者，他说：“他是在新农那条路上被撞倒了，我有现场拍到的照片，撞得很恶心，一条腿已经撞没 了，。是公司的老板雇人去撞的，故意的，。这事跟我们乡长有关系。现在我们这的人都是这样讲，政府和我们乡长有什么关系。这里的乡长太嚣张，被撞死的那个 人也跟政府闹。征地用来修路，国家要在我们这里弄一条乡道，这条公路要征用大家的地，他（王怀成）就不同意。”
记者周一致电袁集乡政府了解情况，一名值班人员表示不知情。
记者：“袁集乡因为征地的事情闹出人命了是吗？”
值班人员：“我们都不知道。”
随后她匆忙挂断电话，拒绝再回答记者问题。
记者又致电淮阴区政府，对方要记者找纪委。
记者：“村民反对强拆被车碾死了，你们知道这个事情吗？”
区政府值班人员：“这个情况还没有那个、、、、、、你不知道真实情况，最好你不要那个、、、、、、”
记者：“那什么是真实情况呢？”
区政府值班人员：“我们这边说不好，我们只是办公室，你跟我们讲没有用。这个事情有人管，不需要你操心，有什么你打12345市长热线。”
据网络图片显示，王怀成死状恐怖，脑浆溢出，溅洒一地，身体皮开肉绽，肠子拖出，尸体扭曲。他的妻子和女儿跪地痛哭。腾讯网民“加百列”留言称： “它们犹如魔鬼在疯狂地掠夺这个国家的财富和资源，视草民生命如草芥，它们把中国活生生的变成地狱。”
来源：自由亚洲电台

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

why this cruelty still happening in china?


江苏村民抗强征遭开发商碾毙 事发前乡长威胁“弄死你”

View attachment 39853

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图片：图片显示，王怀成死状恐怖，脑浆溢出，溅洒一地，身体皮开肉绽，肠子拖出，尸体扭曲。（网络图片）
江苏淮安市近日发生一起由强征土地引发的命案。该市袁集乡政府和开发商强征土地，与村民发生冲突。上星期五，村民王怀成遭开发商指使的货车司机开车轧死。而事发前一天，王怀成曾与乡长发生口角，乡长威胁说要“弄死”他。
淮安市淮阴区袁集乡干庄村村民王怀成因不满当地政府低价强征土地，上周四与张姓乡长发生口角，第二天遭侯姓开发商指使一名货车司机拖行20多米致死。
记者周一致电干庄村，一名黄姓村民向记者证实了事件：“我就是干庄人。”
记者：“听说过王怀成这个人吗？”
黄姓村民：“听说过，他交通事故丶车祸死了。”
记者：“什么时候死的？”
黄姓村民：“几天了。”
记者：“为什么他被车轧死了?”
黄姓村民：“是强拆，黑社会，征地不给补偿。公安机关在调查了。”
袁集乡的一名村民周一告诉记者，王怀成死状极为恐怖，现场惨烈。
记者：“是不是有人因为强拆的事被人轧死了？”
袁集乡村民：“是，有，是干庄的。那人被轧死了很惨的，是有人故意的，肝脏都轧出来了，不敢看。”
据海外“茉莉花革命网站”周一报道，政府以低价违法征地600亩，开发商也无征地手续，引发村民不满。事发前一天，张乡长威胁王怀成：“明天就弄 死你”，开发商侯广轩也扬言要花钱买10条人命，当天王怀成妻子和女儿被乡政府人员打伤入院，村民打110和市长热线，但没有任何结果。
记者周一在新浪微博上联系到一名上传照片的现场目击者，他说：“他是在新农那条路上被撞倒了，我有现场拍到的照片，撞得很恶心，一条腿已经撞没 了，。是公司的老板雇人去撞的，故意的，。这事跟我们乡长有关系。现在我们这的人都是这样讲，政府和我们乡长有什么关系。这里的乡长太嚣张，被撞死的那个 人也跟政府闹。征地用来修路，国家要在我们这里弄一条乡道，这条公路要征用大家的地，他（王怀成）就不同意。”
记者周一致电袁集乡政府了解情况，一名值班人员表示不知情。
记者：“袁集乡因为征地的事情闹出人命了是吗？”
值班人员：“我们都不知道。”
随后她匆忙挂断电话，拒绝再回答记者问题。
记者又致电淮阴区政府，对方要记者找纪委。
记者：“村民反对强拆被车碾死了，你们知道这个事情吗？”
区政府值班人员：“这个情况还没有那个、、、、、、你不知道真实情况，最好你不要那个、、、、、、”
记者：“那什么是真实情况呢？”
区政府值班人员：“我们这边说不好，我们只是办公室，你跟我们讲没有用。这个事情有人管，不需要你操心，有什么你打12345市长热线。”
据网络图片显示，王怀成死状恐怖，脑浆溢出，溅洒一地，身体皮开肉绽，肠子拖出，尸体扭曲。他的妻子和女儿跪地痛哭。腾讯网民“加百列”留言称： “它们犹如魔鬼在疯狂地掠夺这个国家的财富和资源，视草民生命如草芥，它们把中国活生生的变成地狱。”
来源：自由亚洲电台

Dear G-d, what are those pictures of? Can you please provide a summary in English?

 

[Edison Chen]

@kuge whose smurf is this?

You create an account just to post this?

Dear G-d, what are those pictures of? Can you please provide a summary in English?

Villagers oppose to violent evictions from real estate companies, but end in dead.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

@kuge whose smurf is this?

You create an account just to post this?



Villagers oppose to violent evictions from real estate companies, but end in dead.

Horrific. I hope this is ended under the anti-corruption campaign.

 

[Okemos]

Please remove the pic. Not appropriate for public viewing. Also the news is from Free Asia Radio, so I am a bit skeptical of its accuracy.

 

[cnleio]

why this cruelty still happening in china?

It means in somewhere of China:
1. There lack effective supervision.
2. Local officials maybe members of gangsterdom.
3. Local CPC members become the tool hired by Land developer.

All because of MONEY ~! Local CPC members rejected their faith. So i said China troubles coming from inside of CPC, "上梁不正下梁歪", Xi has one chance to deal with it..Jiang made China developing, also made their CPC members rich, at the same time some local CPC collusion between government and businessmen.

Now the biggest trouble in China, is some local CPC service for businessmen, not for the people. Business can bring back benefits to CPC, but ppl not.

BTW China media is always useful & efficient than CPC's anti-corruption agency. Ur story is off-topic, we discussed anti-corruption by Xi not some criminal case happened in China.

 

[jkroo]

@kuge whose smurf is this?

You create an account just to post this?

Villagers oppose to violent evictions from real estate companies, but end in dead.

Damn, I searched "王怀成" in Baidu, there are millions of guys named it.

Finnally I found this news came from so called '自由亚洲电台＇ That waiste my time.

SNS have some violent evictions news but dont find this.

I think they just fear to post this fabricated news in domestic network.

 

[Zsari]

Understood, but at the same time, in most stable countries, there is a clear distinction between the party and the state, and fewer questions over whether the army is an arm of the party or an institution of the state. In China's case, it's a bit of both, which makes the political situation quite complicated. That's precisely why other users have pointed out that even though Hu was nominally in control of the army, the army did not feel the need to recognize this chain of command to the same degree the armies of stable countries unquestionably follow the directives of their leaders. Xi's control over the army, in contrast, seems to have less to do with his titles and more to do with his personal connections--this is an unsustainable condition. China needs to be a country of unambiguous laws, with deviation from those laws resulting in punishment. When that doesn't happen, that's the definition of corruption.

Naaa, you are talking about the rule of law, while China for centuries has always been under the rule of man. Is that unstable? Not necessarily as China saw stable dynasty that runs for several hundred of years. Is that corruption? Not really either. Corruption or what I deem the most serious of all corruption is when public servant serves the interest of third party against the public interest. I do see rule of law as an good goverance standard, but it will take far longer for China, both the official and the public to really understand the meaning of law, whereas now, law is merely an advisory.

No leader has absolute power in China, and in my opinion Xi is more forceful as compare to Hu not because of control over the army, but that there is a consensus in the upper echelon of the CCP that allowed him a free hand whereas in case of Hu, Jiang was basically looking over his shoulder. If the army is fully under the institution of the state in China like it is in the US, then a dictator will soon rise. The biggest contribution of Hu is his clean exit from power that reforms the succession process.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

Naaa, you are talking about the rule of law, while China for centuries has always been under the rule of man. Is that unstable? Not necessarily as China saw stable dynasty that runs for several hundred of years. Is that corruption? Not really either. Corruption or what I deem the most serious of all corruption is when public servant serves the interest of third party against the public interest. I do see rule of law as an good goverance standard, but it will take far longer for China, both the official and the public to really understand the meaning of law, whereas now, law is merely an advisory.

No leader has absolute power in China, and in my opinion Xi is more forceful as compare to Hu not because of control over the army, but that there is a consensus in the upper echelon of the CCP that allowed him a free hand whereas in case of Hu, Jiang was basically looking over his shoulder. If the army is fully under the institution of the state in China like it is in the US, then a dictator will soon rise. The biggest contribution of Hu is his clean exit from power that reforms the succession process.

Interesting perspective, thanks. I hope it works out for China.

 

[cnleio]

I think if future Xi could make success in this anti-corruption movement, he will be the 2nd "Deng Xiao Ping" in PRC history:

1. 1980s Deng's reform and opening-up policy bring economy development to China.

2. Xi's anti-corruption will bring a political revolution to CPC, to establish better supervision system.

If that come ture, CPC & China will come into another high speed development of society. Now Xi was starting a revolution to those corrupted senior officials inside CPC, Jiang's members.

 

[Zsari]

I think if future Xi could make success in this anti-corruption movement, he will be the 2nd "Deng Xiao Ping" in PRC history:

1. 1980s Deng's reform and opening-up policy bring economy development to China.

2. Xi's anti-corruption will bring a political revolution to CPC, to establish better supervision system.

If that come ture, CPC & China will come into another high speed development of society. Now Xi was starting a revolution to those corrupted senior officials inside CPC, Jiang's members.

There is no way corruption can be rooted out just by tightening on the enforcement side. The incentive is just too great there. China should look to Singapore's high salary model even though I doubt that will be popular.

 

[StarCraft_ZT]

Sort of like anything in this world. Look at auditors for example. Companies pay them to do audit, but they can't give too bad of a news of the audit or the company will not use them in the future. Nothing is at arms length in this world.

Yes, it's true. So nothing is perfect, there is a price for it. China is China, west is west, different rules, different ways.

 

[Jlaw]

Yes, it's true. So nothing is perfect, there is a price for it. China is China, west is west, different rules, different ways.

My reference is about auditors from the west. I suppose it could be anywhere, but China should stick to its guns and weed out the corrupt officials.

 

[tranquilium]

Understood, but at the same time, in most stable countries, there is a clear distinction between the party and the state, and fewer questions over whether the army is an arm of the party or an institution of the state. In China's case, it's a bit of both, which makes the political situation quite complicated. That's precisely why other users have pointed out that even though Hu was nominally in control of the army, the army did not feel the need to recognize this chain of command to the same degree the armies of stable countries unquestionably follow the directives of their leaders. Xi's control over the army, in contrast, seems to have less to do with his titles and more to do with his personal connections--this is an unsustainable condition. China needs to be a country of unambiguous laws, with deviation from those laws resulting in punishment. When that doesn't happen, that's the definition of corruption.

The CCP and people's republic of China is indistinguishable and yes, I saw the post on how "Hu doesn't have control of the army". Frankly, though impolite, the most adapt description of that is pure BS. I mean J-20 tests and cracked down on luxury cars? That's the proof that Hu doesn't have control of the army? J-20 test is meant to be a surprise, one that is aimed to catch the visiting delegates off-guard and I wouldn't dignify the car comment with an answer.

Hu's control of Chinese army can be easily observed in his handling of the Wenchuan earthquake in 2008. Under Hu's order, a brigade of Chinese troops matched into the center of disaster zone on foot and managed to reach ground zero within 17 hours. That kind of response is what demonstrates real authority.