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To all Chinese members, what is your favorite Chinese Dynasty?

Yuan's history could have shined if they have respected Han Chinese and the culture of Han Chinese.

Qing adored the culture of Han Chinese, but they have stagnated with its and stopping the innovation. Meanwhile, the Manchus still regarded Han Chinese as the inferior slaves.

Both Mongols and Manchus could have done thing better in the Chinese history if they were more civilized and open minded.
 
Qing has contributed a solid territory for the modern China, but the development of the technology was a big mistake for them. I am not suggesting that the technology could be skyrocketed under Ming, but Qing has done far more much damage than Ming.

The reign between Kangxi and Qianlong was certainly not Golden Age in China's history, but not as dark as some Chinese Ultra-Nationalists claimed to be.

I think the early period of Qing Dynasty was a Silver Age in the Chinese history.

Ming Dynasty was incredibly advanced in shipbuilding and artillery having not only developed cannon but also rockets. After seeing European handheld firearms in Korea, by the end of the Ming Dynasty each army had thousands of guns and millions of bullets. Unfortunately even with advanced military technology, if your government is rotten and corrupt its useless.
 
The first threat that China faced from the steppe was Xiongnu/Hun, most historians believe this group of people was some kind of Pro-Turkic mixed with Indo-Europeans like the Scythians.

Unlikely, and a description which probably originates in misreading the texts.

Pro-Turkic, quite fairly, because the Turks were of mixed Mongolian and Siberian tribal origins, so for the presumably proto-Mongolian Xiong Nu to be considered proto-Turkic is quite in order.

The Xiong Nu, under pressure from the Han, recoiled west, and uprooted the Tokharian culture around the Tarim Basin. The Tokharians seem to have split into three groups: one took refuge in the Tibetan highlands, one joined their tormentors and were absorbed, and the last, the largest group, fled westward, fell upon the people of the Oxus and Jaxartes basins, the Scythians, and drove them south and west.

The Scythians themselves were of mixed ethnicity.

It is possible that this succession of events, occurring in quick step, confuses many of us. However, the Xiong Nu were not the Scythians, nor, originally, the Tocharians, the Tocharians in part joined the Xiong Nu, after being defeated by them, and the main branch of the Tocharians drove out the Scythians and probably themselves mixed the ethnicity of the steppes further. These Tocharians, as their existing mummies still show, were white-skinned blondes; their later coins, when they ruled as the Kushanas in Afghanistan and northern India, showed them to be long-nosed.

In case this confused things further, imagine the tribes and peoples to be segments running from east to west:
  • Han, later formed the Qin empire under Shih Huang;
  • Xiong Nu;
  • Mingled Xiong Nu and Tocharian;
  • Tocharian;
  • (possibly) Tocharian-Scythian admixture;
  • Scythian;

The Tocharian language, incidentally, unlike the language of the Scythians and the Iranians or the Indo-Aryans, was part of the Indo-European branch of Proto-Indo-European, closer to Greek, Latin, German, Celtic than to Iranian, east Iranian or Old Indo-Aryan (Sanskrit).
 


This a nice documentary of the Qin Emperor and his empire.

In Sanskrit, China was called "Chin", I think after the Qin. And the Chinese, "Chinas". They supposedly fought a war with Indians along with other "Barbarians" from Central Asia. Though I think they are Tibetians.

China=Chin and Chinese=Cheena in Sanskrit is quite correct; the other reference again may be due to one of my countrymen who tried to explain the concept of 'Mlecchas', which meant not-south Asian, not-Hindu/Buddhist/Jain.

Mlechhas included the Bactrian Greeks, the Scythians (even from long before historic times, from the tribal era), the Pahlavas, the Kushanas, the Ephthalite Huns, the Tibetans, the Arabs, the Ghaznavi, the Ghorid, the Mughals and so on. All of them battled the kingdoms they found in front of them, in the first five cases, each successive Mleccha wave falling upon the one before.

The Tibetans, Mlechhas by definition, ruled parts of northern India during the 7th to the 12th centuries, probably isolated tracts confined to the foot-hills of the Himalayas.

This may have caused some confusion. The first entry of the Chinese military to south Asia was the forces of the KMT under the military advisor 'Vinegar' Joe Stillwell. It was a pity that having entered they remembered the way.
 
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Has to be Tang. It's cultural impact in East & Central Asia is comparable to the US in the Western world today. I can so imagine some 7th Centuryn Soghdian kid playing & singing Chinese songs much like youth around the world today are crazy about Hip Hop. Everything Chinese was cool, anything that deviated from it drooled.

Oh, really? Would that qualify for what I understand westerners call a Sino-centric view of the universe?

When you have some time, google for the Gupta Empire; it may amuse you on a dull day. Also Xuan Zang, and his quest for the Buddha's doctrine, a little time after this. Part of the quest was formed into one of the Four Classics, Monkey, and Monkey himself has strange origins.
 
My favorite dynasty is the Han because it introduced the civil service examinations. It created the world's first professional bureaucracy that was based on merit rather than wealth or birth.

People may rate dynasties based on their "military might", but that's not what leads to greatness. The most powerful societies are the ones that are the most organized :tup:
 
My favorite dynasty is the Han because it introduced the civil service examinations. It created the world's first professional bureaucracy that was based on merit rather than wealth or birth.

People may rate dynasties based on their "military might", but that's not what leads to greatness. The most powerful societies are the ones that are the most organized :tup:

Qin and Han dynasties were innovators in the Chinese history.

East Han dynasty also invented the paper.
 
My favorite period in China history has to be the period from the fall of the QIN to the rise of the HAN.

This period has a lot of meaning for me.

The QIN was a very powerful military based dynasty, was very oppressive and ruthless. Yet it was a popular uprising by lowly peasants that brought down this dynasty. This was the first popular uprising in the history of China. The heros forever immortalized.
The new HAN dynasty also made Confucius teaching (One of the three pillars of Chinese civilization) the state doctrine. The HAN dynasty was the best dynasty in the history of China and rule for almost 500 years. It was the longest ruling dynasty in China.

That is why til this day we Chinese are called HAN Chinese.
 
Han dynasty is lot better than Qin but it borrows alot of fundations set by the Qin.
 
Unlikely, and a description which probably originates in misreading the texts.

Pro-Turkic, quite fairly, because the Turks were of mixed Mongolian and Siberian tribal origins, so for the presumably proto-Mongolian Xiong Nu to be considered proto-Turkic is quite in order.

The Xiong Nu, under pressure from the Han, recoiled west, and uprooted the Tokharian culture around the Tarim Basin. The Tokharians seem to have split into three groups: one took refuge in the Tibetan highlands, one joined their tormentors and were absorbed, and the last, the largest group, fled westward, fell upon the people of the Oxus and Jaxartes basins, the Scythians, and drove them south and west.

The Scythians themselves were of mixed ethnicity.

It is possible that this succession of events, occurring in quick step, confuses many of us. However, the Xiong Nu were not the Scythians, nor, originally, the Tocharians, the Tocharians in part joined the Xiong Nu, after being defeated by them, and the main branch of the Tocharians drove out the Scythians and probably themselves mixed the ethnicity of the steppes further. These Tocharians, as their existing mummies still show, were white-skinned blondes; their later coins, when they ruled as the Kushanas in Afghanistan and northern India, showed them to be long-nosed.

In case this confused things further, imagine the tribes and peoples to be segments running from east to west:
  • Han, later formed the Qin empire under Shih Huang;
  • Xiong Nu;
  • Mingled Xiong Nu and Tocharian;
  • Tocharian;
  • (possibly) Tocharian-Scythian admixture;
  • Scythian;

The Tocharian language, incidentally, unlike the language of the Scythians and the Iranians or the Indo-Aryans, was part of the Indo-European branch of Proto-Indo-European, closer to Greek, Latin, German, Celtic than to Iranian, east Iranian or Old Indo-Aryan (Sanskrit).

the demise of Tocharian culture was not due to Xiongnu. but yes Tocharian tribes was once greatly threatened by Xiongnu in Han dynasty. (e.g. the most well-known tocharian tribe Yueshi had decades war wtih Xiongnu and evetually left Xinjiang for south asia and built Kushan empire). but late in Han dynasty,Xiongnu was on a downtowards spiral and completely disappeared in South/North dynasties. while tocharian culture continued to prosper till the collapse of tang dynasty when china withdraw from central asia. between 9/10 AD, Turkic people moved from mongolia to Xinjiang and gradually wipe out and absorbed the Tocharians. Quite a few uyghurs today still have tocharian looks like this one.
Girl_in_Turpan%2C_Xinjiang%2C_China_-_20050712.jpg
 
the demise of Tocharian culture was not due to Xiongnu. but yes Tocharian tribes was once greatly threatened by Xiongnu in Han dynasty. (e.g. the most well-known tocharian tribe Yueshi had decades war wtih Xiongnu and evetually left Xinjiang for south asia and built Kushan empire). but late in Han dynasty,Xiongnu was on a downtowards spiral and completely disappeared in South/North dynasties. while tocharian culture continued to prosper till the collapse of tang dynasty when china withdraw from central asia. between 9/10 AD, Turkic people moved from mongolia to Xinjiang and gradually wipe out and absorbed the Tocharians. Quite a few uyghurs today still have tocharian looks like this one. [Image deleted to save space - 'JS']

"...tocharian culture continued to prosper till the collapse of tang dynasty..." Good Heavens!

I am very interested - no, utterly fascinated - by the alternate dates and sequence of events that you have presented. Please could you indicate the sources that you have taken your account from? It is intriguing to think that the Uighur is not wholly Turkish, but has Tocharian elements in his genealogy as well. Does this mean that we may assume some element of Tocharian in the western Turks as well? Can you point me towards any blood-group sampling studies done in the region?

Do your sources say anything about the branch that is supposed to have fled to the Tibetan Plateau? Is that recorded? What happened to them?

This is exciting. I shall await your response with the utmost impatience.
 
"...tocharian culture continued to prosper till the collapse of tang dynasty..." Good Heavens!

I am very interested - no, utterly fascinated - by the alternate dates and sequence of events that you have presented. Please could you indicate the sources that you have taken your account from? It is intriguing to think that the Uighur is not wholly Turkish, but has Tocharian elements in his genealogy as well. Does this mean that we may assume some element of Tocharian in the western Turks as well? Can you point me towards any blood-group sampling studies done in the region?

Do your sources say anything about the branch that is supposed to have fled to the Tibetan Plateau? Is that recorded? What happened to them?

This is exciting. I shall await your response with the utmost impatience.

i am not presenting you alternate history, what i provided is the mainstream knowledge which indicates tocharians were not wiped out by xiongnu but turkic immigration in 9AD. i guessed you mixed up Yuezhi tribe with all tocharians. here is some rudimentary knowledge on tocharian history.
Tocharians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


the knowledge i know about tocharians are primarily from chinese history and wikipedia, and i find English documents on tocharians (e.g. wikipedia) are basically literature review of chinese literature. i understand that because ancient china have intensive records of history event. thanks to them, we are able to know the detailed annual records of every county of china two thousand years ago. today 99.9% of the chinese people have no idea who tocharian is but if you give them the words "鄯善" "楼兰" "龟兹", they will say "i know them. they are ancient states in Xinjiang".

tang dyansty was time when silkway culminated with unprecedented prosperity in commerce and Buddhism achieved in central asia. tang empire came to xinjiang and built four prefectures in central asia (Kucha - 龟兹 , Kashgar - 疏勒 ,Kingdom_of_Khotan_于阗,Karasahr_焉耆), they are major tocharian states which chinese people are familiarized with since Han dynasty. even today many placenames in xinjiang we are using are neither from Chinese nor uyghur languages, they are old chinese transliteration of tocharian kingdom in tang dyansty (e.g. 焉耆, 轮台,库车,莎车,疏勒 ).

None of the existing turkic cultures are "pure blood" and turkeys are highly mixed up with Arabs and Greeks. as far as uyghur concerned, over 90% of looks basically like mongols but still some of them have tocharian and east iranic influnece in their appreance. when i was in Turpan, i saw blonde uyghur i thought they were russian chinese at that time.
 

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