The tragedy of being Taiwanese

[JSCh]

First, what exactly do they mean by inalienable?

For heaven sake, the official name is called "Republic of China". How could a place with an official name of Republic of China not part of China? Taiwan has never been an independence country by itself, it never exist in history. Today, overwhelming majority of ethnic chinese consider taiwan as an inalienable part of China. PRC simply let the will of the chinese people be known to the world. To characterize this as an act of land grab aggression of PRC is simply absurd. Taiwan is considered as an inalienable part of China centuries before the PRC was founded by all Chinese (including those who lived in Taiwan then). Thirty or Forty years ago, nobody has ever heard of or known the absurd idea of an independence taiwan. To revise a well known and documented history in order to claim taiwan as not a part of China fly in the face of common sense and insult the intelligence of the world at large.

Second, Taiwan officially became part of Chinese territory on April 14, 1684, in the 23rd year of the reign of the Qing emperor Kangxi (康&#29081.

Well, he conveniently forget to mention that taiwan belongs to the Ming Dynasty before that and numerous dynasties before Ming, which is rather disingenuous. Passing control from one dynasty to another dynasty of China does not change the historical fact that it is part of China.

He also forget to mention that of all the presidential elections that taiwan has had in the past, the blue camp (anti independence and part pro reunification) has always outnumber the green camp (pro independence).

 

[Viet]

Where are Taiwanese members? I do not see any comments here.

 

[Sonyuke_Songpaisan]

For heaven sake, the official name is called "Republic of China". How could a place with an official name of Republic of China not part of China? Taiwan has never been an independence country by itself, it never exist in history. Today, overwhelming majority of ethnic chinese consider taiwan as an inalienable part of China. PRC simply let the will of the chinese people be known to the world. To characterize this as an act of land grab aggression of PRC is simply absurd. Taiwan is considered as an inalienable part of China centuries before the PRC was founded by all Chinese (including those who lived in Taiwan then). Thirty or Forty years ago, nobody has ever heard of or known the absurd idea of an independence taiwan. To revise a well known and documented history in order to claim taiwan as not a part of China fly in the face of common sense and insult the intelligence of the world at large.

Well, he conveniently forget to mention that taiwan belongs to the Ming Dynasty before that and numerous dynasties before Ming, which is rather disingenuous. Passing control from one dynasty to another dynasty of China does not change the historical fact that it is part of China.

He also forget to mention that of all the presidential elections that taiwan has had in the past, the blue camp (anti independence and part pro reunification) has always outnumber the green camp (pro independence).

During 郑氏 rule, Taiwan wants to maintain one country two systems-Taiwan Han System, Mainland China Manchu system. But 康熙refused this proposal and forced Han Taiwanese to adopt Manchu living styles after Taiwan's unification with Mainland.

 

[JSCh]

During 郑氏 rule, Taiwan wants to maintain one country two systems-Taiwan Han System, Mainland China Manchu system. But 康熙refused this proposal and forced Han Taiwanese to adopt Manchu living styles after Taiwan's unification with Mainland.

Of course, Ming Dynasty is ethnically Han and Qing Dynasty is ethnically Manchu. Qing/Manchu topple the Ming/Han dynasty in Mainland China and forced everyone there to convert from Han system to Manchu system and massacred a lot of Han Chinese who refused.
郑氏 is a family holding the title 'king' bestowed by the Ming emperor at that period still holding out in taiwan island and being one of the last remnant of the Ming dynasty would prefer the Han system because all the people living in taiwan is Han Chinese.
When you refer to 郑氏, which 郑氏 you are talking about?
The last 郑氏 holding taiwan, 郑克塽 surrendered to Qing dynasty under military force, he is in no position to negotiate anything.
And if you are referring to 郑克塽's father 郑成功, the guy has spend his entire life fighting non-stop battle after battle against the Qing dynasty till the day he die. Beside a brief truce negotiated, I am not aware of any term of surrender negotiated between him and Qing dynasty. In fact, he has repeatedly refuse to accept titles from the Qing emperor offered to him.
That idea is absurd anyway, everyone would know that it is impossible for the Qing emperor 康熙 to accept such a proposal.

 

[djsjs]

 

[Snomannen]

Of course, Ming Dynasty is ethnically Han and Qing Dynasty is ethnically Manchu. Qing/Manchu topple the Ming/Han dynasty in Mainland China and forced everyone there to convert from Han system to Manchu system and massacred a lot of Han Chinese who refused.
郑氏 is a family holding the title 'king' bestowed by the Ming emperor at that period still holding out in taiwan island and being one of the last remnant of the Ming dynasty would prefer the Han system because all the people living in taiwan is Han Chinese.
When you refer to 郑氏, which 郑氏 you are talking about?
The last 郑氏 holding taiwan, 郑克塽 surrendered to Qing dynasty under military force, he is in no position to negotiate anything.
And if you are referring to 郑克塽's father 郑成功, the guy has spend his entire life fighting non-stop battle after battle against the Qing dynasty till the day he die. Beside a brief truce negotiated, I am not aware of any term of surrender negotiated between him and Qing dynasty. In fact, he has repeatedly refuse to accept titles from the Qing emperor offered to him.
That idea is absurd anyway, everyone would know that it is impossible for the Qing emperor 康熙 to accept such a proposal.

The Qing Dynasty is much better than Ming anyway.

 

[Abhishek_]

Where are Taiwanese members? I do not see any comments here.

not a whole lot of tw members here. although most taiwanese prefer status-quo.

 

[Sonyuke_Songpaisan]

The Qing Dynasty is much better than Ming anyway.

满清是奔驰在历史逆车道的高速特快列车

 

[Snomannen]

满清是奔驰在历史逆车道的高速特快列车

你把明朝寫錯為滿清了.

 

[JSCh]

Where are Taiwanese members? I do not see any comments here.

Because it is the truth. Using historical evidence to claim taiwan as not a part of Chine is absurd. They would have a better case by claiming self determination.

The title of this thread is "The tragedy of being Taiwanese". The truth is, the identity of being a taiwanese as a national entity is very new historically, it could be said to be artificially manufactured because taiwanese is not a race, it has few minor distinguishing feature setting it apart from the main Chinese culture.

The tragedy of being Taiwanese is because it is a tragedy of a minority. Just like any other minority, they perceive themselves to be living under the will of the majority. But the irony is, it is a self composed tragedy because there is no reason that taiwanese should be a minority. Read the article, even the author himself is confused and could not figure out what taiwanese is. Would a people with true identity be confused after all their family has been living in taiwan for centuries.

The truth is they have an identity, they have always been Chinese. They are confused because they are revisionist and start to question the identity that has been handed down to them from their ancestor. They are confused because they equate China to communist China. They are unable or unwilling to see that China and Chinese identity is independence of the government or political ideology that rule China.

 

[dreamer53320]

I think Taiwan is currently going through a conflicting stage of self-identification. We are deeply divided. We learn all the history of China from 炎黃 all the way to how KMD retreated to Taiwan since middle school. It's either in denial or just don't know how to make of oneself. (or simply just being manipulated by politicians to win votes by dividing society, read that as those green people)

Here we have green people who are pro-independence and pro-America (they will do anything to bash China just like American news). Then you have the party lead by 田野正男 (李登&#36637, who is a Japanese with fake Chinese/Taiwanese skin, which is very pro-japan.
Then you have KMD that its leader once wanted to reclaim China and think the two sides should become one. And people of KMD are usually pro-status quo or Pro-China.

Green party got about 44-46% of the vote and support nation wide, but they don't stand for the whole country. Just as KMD people don't stand for the whole country either.

But what I can tell you is that the paradigm is shifting, and people are starting to learn about the other side as both sides open up (people are becoming more friendly towards people from mainland and starting to realize they are not as scary as propaganda said). And people are starting to resist the propaganda that had been trying to decimate/distort people from mainland. Green people have lost their chance to revert this progress. And they have started to embrace as well, which is a good thing since mutual-understanding is crucial for peace and talk.

I think one of the main reason Taiwanese resisted mainland so strong is due to the deeply entrenched stereotype that somehow communist = super evil, bad, disgusting, blood shed, no rights, no freedom. And that democracy = moral, peace, knowledge, cultural, freedom, love. However, that myth(propaganda) is slowly dissolving.

Simply put, in recent years, China is slowly giving communist (one-party-ruling-system) a good name, and USA is slowly giving "democracy" (two-party-ruling-system-but-is-actually-one) a bad name. If this trend continues, I see a slow reunification by heart and economy as people start to realize that "Communist" China is not actually the communist we knew from USSR or NK etc, China just forgot to change their party name to a better-sounding name.

This is just my Personal thought, just take it with a grain of salt.

 

[faithfulguy]

I think Taiwan is currently going through a conflicting stage of self-identification. We are deeply divided. We learn all the history of China from 炎黃 all the way to how KMD retreated to Taiwan since middle school. It's either in denial or just don't know how to make of oneself. (or simply just wanted to win votes by dividing society, read that as those green people)

Here we have green people who are pro-independence and pro-America (they will do anything to bash China just like American news). Then you have the party lead by 田野正男 (李登&#36637, who is a Japanese with fake Chinese/Taiwanese skin, which is very pro-japan.
Then you have KMD that its leader once wanted to reclaim China and think the two sides should become one. And people of KMD are usually pro-status quo or Pro-China.

Green party got about 44-46% of the vote and support nation wide, but they don't stand for the whole country. Just as KMD people don't stand for the whole country either.

But what I can tell you is that the paradigm is shifting, and people are starting to learn about the other side as both sides open up (people are becoming more friendly towards people from mainland and starting to realize they are not as scary as propaganda said). And people are starting to resist the propaganda had been trying to decimate/distort people from mainland. Green people have lost their chance to revert this progress. And they have started to embrace as well.

I think one of the main reason Taiwanese resisted mainland so strong is due to the deeply entrenched stereotype that somehow communist = super evil, bad, disgusting, blood shed, no rights, no freedom. And that democracy = moral, peace, knowledge, cultural, freedom, love. However, that myth(propaganda) is slowing dissolving.

Simply put, in recent years, China is slowly giving communist (one-party-ruling-system) a good name, and USA is slowly giving "democracy" (two-party-ruling-system-but-is-actually-one) a bad name. If this trend continues, I see a slow reunification by heart and economy as people start to realize that "Communist" China is not actually the communist we knew from USSR or NK etc, China just forgot to change their party name to a better-sounding name.

This is just my Personal thought, just take it with a grain of salt.

Very good point. I agree a lot with what you said.

 

[Sonyuke_Songpaisan]

delete delete

 

[Viet]

I...

Simply put, in recent years, China is slowly giving communist (one-party-ruling-system) a good name, and USA is slowly giving "democracy" (two-party-ruling-system-but-is-actually-one) a bad name. If this trend continues, I see a slow reunification by heart and economy as people start to realize that "Communist" China is not actually the communist we knew from USSR or NK etc, China just forgot to change their party name to a better-sounding name.

This is just my Personal thought, just take it with a grain of salt.

That means if China continues the path it has taken, let say converting slowly to a second Taiwan, a reunification is thinkable in our lifetime. Correct?

 

[ayachyan]

I think Taiwan is currently going through a conflicting stage of self-identification. We are deeply divided. We learn all the history of China from 炎黃 all the way to how KMD retreated to Taiwan since middle school. It's either in denial or just don't know how to make of oneself. (or simply just being manipulated by politicians to win votes by dividing society, read that as those green people)

Here we have green people who are pro-independence and pro-America (they will do anything to bash China just like American news). Then you have the party lead by 田野正男 (李登&#36637, who is a Japanese with fake Chinese/Taiwanese skin, which is very pro-japan.
Then you have KMD that its leader once wanted to reclaim China and think the two sides should become one. And people of KMD are usually pro-status quo or Pro-China.

Green party got about 44-46% of the vote and support nation wide, but they don't stand for the whole country. Just as KMD people don't stand for the whole country either.

But what I can tell you is that the paradigm is shifting, and people are starting to learn about the other side as both sides open up (people are becoming more friendly towards people from mainland and starting to realize they are not as scary as propaganda said). And people are starting to resist the propaganda that had been trying to decimate/distort people from mainland. Green people have lost their chance to revert this progress. And they have started to embrace as well, which is a good thing since mutual-understanding is crucial for peace and talk.

I think one of the main reason Taiwanese resisted mainland so strong is due to the deeply entrenched stereotype that somehow communist = super evil, bad, disgusting, blood shed, no rights, no freedom. And that democracy = moral, peace, knowledge, cultural, freedom, love. However, that myth(propaganda) is slowly dissolving.

Simply put, in recent years, China is slowly giving communist (one-party-ruling-system) a good name, and USA is slowly giving "democracy" (two-party-ruling-system-but-is-actually-one) a bad name. If this trend continues, I see a slow reunification by heart and economy as people start to realize that "Communist" China is not actually the communist we knew from USSR or NK etc, China just forgot to change their party name to a better-sounding name.

This is just my Personal thought, just take it with a grain of salt.

honestly mainland Chinese never get used accept any praises from TW and HK. we just feel bad while heard any praise from TWese or HKer .
i think TW and HK should become our mirror to display other possibility in politics or any area. we can not be the same ,though we HAVE TO stay in ONE country

no matter what kind of political system a nation going to take , have to guarantee the wealthy enough for its citizens and powerful enough to guard the country .

at least TW did good in social wealthy. but poor in national security.

as my opinion ,only mainland China is willing to protect taiwan island at any cost.