The Myth of Sedition and its use as a Political Tool

[Sky lord]

Am saying - she could have surrendered the Passport, who stopped her?

No one stopped her and no one asked her to surrender her passport. It is not sedition... It is a non issue....Why should any government do anything? I can't think of a more stupid thing to do than force her to surrender her passport...

Dont dissect and quote please. It is irritating and annoying.

My heartfelt apologies!

 

[Soumitra]

Good Heavens! Is there such a thing? Why did nobody tell me all these years?

How, sage, do you distinguish between someone saying,"Our Constitution is useless. Article 370 should never have been there" and someone saying,"We urgently need to repeal Article 370", considering that these are both almost the same thought, and could well be seen as a sequence?

What statement against the Constitution is NOT to be taken as a call for amendment or as a call for a greater overhaul, but as a call for overthrow of the rule of law and of the Constitution which provides a framework for it?







And how do you distinguish between those following the letter of the law, and those following its spirit?

Common sencse will decide between directly black and white areas For example "Bharat ke tukde honge inshaallah" is a black and white case

For the grey ones our judiciary is there

 

[Joe Shearer]

Common sencse will decide between directly black and white areas For example "Bharat ke tukde honge inshaallah" is a black and white case

For the grey ones our judiciary is there

A black and white case of what? You think anyone can be convicted on the basis of loud talk? Are you serious? Even if you have not even a whit of legal knowledge, at least consult someone knowledgeable. Ask him if even an FIR can be filed on this, other than the kind of self-justifying desperation of the one against the film actress Ramya.

I should have stuck to my original resolution of not getting involved: I can handle wicked, I can't handle stupid.

 

[Anubis]

I think we should scrap the sedition law and bring a law for Anti national activities. There is a space for dissent in a democracy but it should be within the 4 walls of the constitution

I know that many left liberals consider Directive Principles of State Policy as bumkum because they dont agree with concepts like UCC, Cow Protection etc. Even if we leave those out (I dont agree with that but just to be accomodative of the leftists) we should not leave out fundamental duties which are required for every citizen

So Anti National activities will include those who are not following fundamental duties of the citizen of this country. Fundamental duties like

• To abide by the Constitution and respect its ideals and institutions, the National Flag and the National Anthem- No more banning of the singing of the national anthem because it hurts your "religious sentiments". Show proper respect to the flag and anthem. Salute the flag, stand when anthem is played. Dont say falg is just a piece of cloth (like Arundhati Roy)
• To cherish and follow the noble ideals which inspired our national struggle for freedom - No mocking of freedom fighters
• To uphold and protect the sovereignty, unity and integrity of India - no Bharat tere tukde honge inshaallah, no crying crocodile tears for terrorists and seperatists
  
• To defend the country and render national service when called upon to do so No mocking of the armed forces and refusing to join the Army when called upon to do so
  
• To promote harmony and the spirit of common brotherhood amongst all the people of India transcending religious, linguistic and regional or sectional diversities; to renounce practices derogatory to the dignity of women No mocking of the beliefs of minorities (AND MAJORITIES)Right now leftitists can denegrate hindus and get away with it.
  
• To value and preserve the rich heritage of our composite culture No mocking our cultural heritage (see the point above)
  
• To protect and improve the natural environment including forests, lakes, rivers and wild life, and to have compassion for living creatures
  
• To develop the scientific temper, humanism and the spirit of inquiry and reform - no blocking the progress of scienc and technology because of your sentiments
  
• To safeguard public property and to abjure violence
  
• To strive towards excellence in all spheres of individual and collective activity so that the nation constantly rises to higher levels of endeavour and achievement
• • Who is a parent or guardian to provide opportunities for education to his child or ward, as the case may be, between the age of six to fourteen years

IF such an Anti Nationalism law is brought then a lot of people can and rightfully so be booked under it. Recent examples include Kanhaiya Kumar, Umar Khalid, Arundhati roy, whole host of leftitists politicians and media persons

To those who don't want to read long posts...here is the summary:
"**** you freedom of speech."

Its so funny how Orwell was absolutely right once again....Nationalism is about capturing power,consolidation of power and imposing of one's views. talk about superiority complex.

 

[Soumitra]

Exactly. Why are you, and I mean 'common' people here, getting affected? Why do you think is it happening?



Have you seen Peace TV? Apart from it being crap ... I have not found anything offensive in it. His opinion. Why did I&B give him a license? Why so many religious channels on TATA SKY or AIRTEL or DISH or SUN DTH? Why not a blanket ban? Any reasons?



What happened to them?



What did you achieve by reacting here?



Why do you think that is happening?


Am waiting for your answer!

You keep on asking what does the common person get from reacting. I say we get a change of govt. For so many years no body reacted. Congress and the lefties scwred India. ultimately the common people got fedup with the minority appeasing left liberal attitude and voted for a change

 

[Hellfire]

You keep on asking what does the common person get from reacting. I say we get a change of govt. For so many years no body reacted. Congress and the lefties scwred India. ultimately the common people got fedup with the minority appeasing left liberal attitude and voted for a change

How is BJP different?

What do you mean by left liberal attitude?

Who got minority vote banks to forefront?

You have to give me a definitive answer here.

 

[Anubis]

@Soumitra Sorry but I couldn't but point out the irony of the contradiction of your own signature and the huge list of speech/expression that you have proposed to ban.

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Arsalan

@Soumitra Sorry but I couldn't but point out the irony of the contradiction of your own signature and the huge list of speech/expression that you have proposed to ban.

You didn't get the half of it.

Look at the list of 'duties' he wants to bring in. He wouldn't himself, and his pack-members wouldn't themselves, qualify for more than half of them. Somewhere else I wrote about how the right sought to fill up its empty larder by co-opting everything that everyone else had done for our independence, while they and their intellectual fathers were skulking around pretending that nothing out of the way was going on.

Utter hypocrites. Utterly disgusting.

 

[Soumitra]

Ask him if even an FIR can be filed on this, other than the kind of self-justifying desperation of the one against the film actress Ramya.

The FIR was filed and he was in jail for 10 days before he got bail. The case is right now in court.

so if you think this is stupid you are free to go and offer your legal advise to him and his buddies

 

[Joe Shearer]

The FIR was filed and he was in jail for 10 days before he got bail. The case is right now in court.

so if you think this is stupid you are free to go and offer your legal advise to him and his buddies

Two things: the section is bailable. The fact that he didn't get bail for ten days speaks for the location of the FIR and the context. Second, there are far better legal advisors than I, and if my legal knowledge outstrips yours, you can imagine how many times superior they are to you and your friends.

 

[Soumitra]

@Anubis My post was based purely on the fundamental duties of an Inidan Citizen as enshrined in the Constitution of India. As a bangladeshi you dont have any locus standi to say whether one should follow these fundamental duties or not.

Regarding my signature I am no left liberal I am a proud Right Wing Nationalist. I am not a hypocrite. I am consistent in my stand. For me Nationalism is much more important than Freedom of speech. The hypocrites are the left liberals who claim to profess freedom of speech and then try to shut you down if you say something which opposes their ideology.They consider "Bharat tere tukde honge inshallah" as FoE and saying "Vande Mataram" or "Bharat Mata ki Jai" as against their sensitivities. As a nationalist I consider the slogan "Bharat tere tukde honge inshallah" as anti national and against the fundamental duties of the citizen of India

@hellfire if you have studied the Indian political landscape for the last 70 years you will know very well who are the left liberals and minority appeasers and how is BJP different from them.

@Joe Shearer you dont know me so you cant give out certificates about which fundamental duties I follow and which I dont.

As for co opting the freedom struggle Congress has abandoned the values of patriotism and nationalism. They have sidelined people of the freedom movement like Sardar Patel and Madan Mohan Malviya. Congress has abandoned them but BJP will take their legacy forward

 

[Stephen Cohen]

IF such an Anti Nationalism law is brought then a lot of people can and rightfully so be booked under it. Recent examples include Kanhaiya Kumar, Umar Khalid, Arundhati roy, whole host of leftitists politicians and media persons

They will cry a lot if a new law is made

This law is good enough ; Nobody gets convicted

But a small duration in Jail takes the wind out of their sails ie for people like Kanhaiya and Umar Khalid

Currently The Next higher law is National Security Act and the Unlaw ful activities Prevention Act

 

[Hellfire]

@hellfire if you have studied the Indian political landscape for the last 70 years you will know very well who are the left liberals and minority appeasers and how is BJP different from them.

You see, that is the reason this becomes a charade and merely a joke.

I will tell you who is responsible - every Indian, wouldn't you agree? You could have accepted that. Instead, you chose to parry.

What is the proof? The instalment of MK Gandhi, agreement for partition, JL Nehru as PM (who put Muslims in ghetto to further perpetuate the feeling of marginalisation, people who had been traumatised were isolated further and till date remain isolated), successive wins for Congress over decades (thereby emphasising the mass support for Congres by INDIANS) ..... the abject failure of BJP government in UP leading to its loss till date (and this was the Hindu heartland)!

Why UP could not be developed by them?

I can flay the Communists too .. they destroyed Bengal ... but the crux remains .. Indians are responsible.

Have you read "A Grave Danger To Hindus" by An Obscure Hindu? It is a set of essays and speeches by a Hindu Nationalist in the lead up to Partition. Why did the majority of Hindus ignore it? Why, pray, why could not all the minorities be massacred at the time of partition itself and a 'Hindu Rashtra' be created?

Look into yourself. You will find your answers there.

You allow sedition, you allow Communists, you allow right wingers, you allow congress!

Why is religion the centre of your discourse till date? Be it political or social?

 

[Soumitra]

You see, that is the reason this becomes a charade and merely a joke.

I will tell you who is responsible - every Indian, wouldn't you agree? You could have accepted that. Instead, you chose to parry.

What is the proof? The instalment of MK Gandhi, agreement for partition, JL Nehru as PM (who put Muslims in ghetto to further perpetuate the feeling of marginalisation, people who had been traumatised were isolated further and till date remain isolated), successive wins for Congress over decades (thereby emphasising the mass support for Congres by INDIANS) ..... the abject failure of BJP government in UP leading to its loss till date (and this was the Hindu heartland)!

Why UP could not be developed by them?

I can flay the Communists too .. they destroyed Bengal ... but the crux remains .. Indians are responsible.

Yes India s a democracy and the people are responsible for the govts they elect

 

[Hellfire]

Yes India s a democracy and the people are responsible for the govts they elect

There, you have to see it in that context.

Don't be a hindu nationalist or any kind of nationalist. Only an Indian suffices. Stand by anyone who has the guts to speak their mind, howsoever critical, as long as they stand by their nation. Even those who oppose this nation, remember the nation is bigger than them, protect them as a state, they are your citizens, howsoever stupid and idiotic they may be. I find 90% of Indians too stupid and feel like killing them, I admit. They don't deserve to be alive in my most outraged thoughts. But do I do something about it?

Give them chance to amend, keep giving them chance to amend. They will meet their end, if that is what they wish. Our duties as citizens, is to ensure upholding of every tenet of this constitution, and by God, I intend to do that as long as I am alive.

You have the right to criticise this nation for its failures, don't you do it? Then why can't someone else, who is equally a citizen? What gives you an unique right?

I gave you a piece earlier, a pov of a soldier. Do you think it matters to a soldier whether a hindu or muslim or BJP or Commie? It does not! And the soldier is from same city, town village where you and I come from. What differentiates a soldier? The soldier is taught to hold the nation first and foremost every time and always.

Why can't it be emulated in civil life? Any rationale? I am yet to see you speak here to say that you 'believe in democracy and yes arundhati roy is wrong when she criticises the nation, but our nation is magnanimous to let her continue because the nation is too big for people like her, the nation can not be broken by thousands of people like her who misuse their rights under the constitution of the very same nation they abuse, because as long as patriots like me live, we will not allow it to happen'.

Your posts so far, have shown only a contempt and a disbelief in you for your own nation.

May I ask, what has India done wrong to you to deserve that?

Trust me, am a guy who has spent 1/3rd of his life outside this nation and most of you can guess my background ..... and so I speak thus.