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The Mughal Empire History

Oh so nice of you!!! I am touch :woot:

Isn't the same secular India demolished Babri masjid which happen to be one of the oldest? It's still not rebuild, yet there is a move to build some ram Mandir in it's place.

What say about that?

so you are saying that 100 mosques can be built over hindu temple. but if the hindus react by puling down 1 mosque, then there is nosecularism. Please see the way Pak and Ban treat their hindus and then compare. This secularism must be seen in a context and not based on a few incidents like Babri or Godhra train burning and riots or bbombay blasts.

I am appalled at muslims in india who never ever condemned the train burning in Godhra.
babri mosque - bombay blasts - riots.
godhra train burning - anti muslim riots.
i hope there is no more of such nonsense anymore. Whether you like it or not, 95% of india is secular. there are some hindutva people and there are muslim terrorists. proabably 5% of hindus are radical and 50% of indian muslims are anti-india. but still the majority of hindus take india in the gengeral direction of being secular
 
Babri masjid was built by Babur at site of ancient hindu temple of Lord Sri Ram which hindus believe was the temple built to commemorate the birthplace of Lord Ram ,which was destroyed by Babur.

Its only parallel woud be like a hindu invader destroying Kabba at Mecca and building a hindu temple over it...

yaa,its a miracle of tolerant mature hindu society that Babri masjid stood there for all these years.Period.

I have read that the Kaaba itself was once a place of worship which had idols and other native soft religions. I believe that Mohammed came and destroyed this temple ( i dont mean hindu temple) and made it the kaaba. Apparently iinside there are idols even now, which is why people are not allowed inside. Dont know how true this is?
 
I have read that the Kaaba itself was once a place of worship which had idols and other native soft religions. I believe that Mohammed came and destroyed this temple ( i dont mean hindu temple) and made it the kaaba. Apparently iinside there are idols even now, which is why people are not allowed inside. Dont know how true this is?

The Kaaba was built by Prophet Ibrahim and was basically a four walled structure. There were no idols and it was the place were the one God was wroshipped. AS time went by people forgot the right path and started adding idols even though they still believed in the one supreme God.
The idols were removed from the Kaaba, and restored back to its original form as almost all people had accepted Islam by that time. Before that for 23 years, when people were still learning about Islam and had not accepted the message nothing was removed. Nothing else was destroyed. And there is nothing inside the Kaaba, normal people may not be allowed in but some esteemed people who get permission from the authorities can go in. Infact I have been in that area when the Saudi King, a broom in hand went inside to sweep the floor of the Kaaba. So time you start correcting your misconceptions about muslims which judging by your posts you have many :)
 
The Kaaba was built by Prophet Ibrahim and was basically a four walled structure. There were no idols and it was the place were the one God was wroshipped. AS time went by people forgot the right path and started adding idols even though they still believed in the one supreme God.
The idols were removed from the Kaaba, and restored back to its original form as almost all people had accepted Islam by that time. Before that for 23 years, when people were still learning about Islam and had not accepted the message nothing was removed. Nothing else was destroyed. And there is nothing inside the Kaaba, normal people may not be allowed in but some esteemed people who get permission from the authorities can go in. Infact I have been in that area when the Saudi King, a broom in hand went inside to sweep the floor of the Kaaba. So time you start correcting your misconceptions about muslims which judging by your posts you have many :)

Is it a tradition???

Strangely i see many similar examples with hindu temples ,mostly the old one built by hindu kings... e,g even during famous Puri RathYatra ,king of Puri sweep each chariot beofer they start rolling.
 
The Kaaba was built by Prophet Ibrahim and was basically a four walled structure. There were no idols and it was the place were the one God was wroshipped. AS time went by people forgot the right path and started adding idols even though they still believed in the one supreme God.
The idols were removed from the Kaaba, and restored back to its original form as almost all people had accepted Islam by that time. Before that for 23 years, when people were still learning about Islam and had not accepted the message nothing was removed. Nothing else was destroyed. And there is nothing inside the Kaaba, normal people may not be allowed in but some esteemed people who get permission from the authorities can go in. Infact I have been in that area when the Saudi King, a broom in hand went inside to sweep the floor of the Kaaba. So time you start correcting your misconceptions about muslims which judging by your posts you have many :)


I guess things were more complex than that straightforward as u try to explain.
 
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The Kaaba was built by Prophet Ibrahim and was basically a four walled structure. There were no idols and it was the place were the one God was wroshipped. AS time went by people forgot the right path and started adding idols even though they still believed in the one supreme God.
The idols were removed from the Kaaba, and restored back to its original form as almost all people had accepted Islam by that time. Before that for 23 years, when people were still learning about Islam and had not accepted the message nothing was removed. Nothing else was destroyed. And there is nothing inside the Kaaba, normal people may not be allowed in but some esteemed people who get permission from the authorities can go in. Infact I have been in that area when the Saudi King, a broom in hand went inside to sweep the floor of the Kaaba. So time you start correcting your misconceptions about muslims which judging by your posts you have many :)
I mean its a process of education. Judging by posts here most people dont know about india or hindu religion/traditionas as well. Education must be 2 way
 
Is it a tradition???

Strangely i see many similar examples with hindu temples ,mostly the old one built by hindu kings... e,g even during famous Puri RathYatra ,king of Puri sweep each chariot beofer they start rolling.

There is no religious significance as such, but more of a annual symbolic gesture. Although praying namaz in the Kaaba is considered to be quite significant and full of rewards. However, there is a semi-ciruclar structure enclosing some space next to the Kaabah made in white marble called the Hateem. The general public can go in the Hateem area to pray and make dua and this is equivalent to as if you have prayed inside the Kaabah itself.

I guess things were more complex than that straightforward as u try to explain.
Is there any specific poin in the video that you want to clarify here? Dr. Israr Ahmed and his acolyte in Tanzeem Islami are the Dr. Praveen Tagodias of the Islamic world. They are not religious scholars and have an agenda of establishing a "Islamic state" which is contrary to Islamic teachings. And don't even talk about Zaid Hamid. You can see how confused they get when they are giving answers themselves.

Unfortunately, DAWN News didn't interview many ulema from traditional schools including scholars from deoband schools and mass organisations like Tablighi Jamaat or Ahle Sunnat wal Jamaat e.t.c. who have been very critical and against this concept of establishing an Islamic state and instead just had the almost clean shaven Dr. instead advocating this view point. These traditional schools and ulema have been speaking against their tactics since the 80s and 90s and even earlier but obviously the mainstream media won't give airtime to them.

Contrary to what people think, this "ideology" concept of establishing an "Islamic" state is not part of traditional Islamic jurisprudence but based on Syed Qutb and Mawdudi's new age concepts in the 60s and 70s who were influence by communist revolutions and fascism. Zawahiri, OBL, and other so called "Jihadi" orgnisations used this deviant concepts and give it some historical colour. IT was convenient for the US, Pakistani and Saudi intelligence agencies to support and fuel this fringe ideology and provide training in bomb making and subversion activities at a massive scale in the 80s soviet afghan war. So what would you expect when the worlds biggest superpower and massive financial aid is provided to this fringe ideology followers is provided, it will obviously grow out of its fringe corner and wreck havoc as it has now.

There is no doubt in my mind that just as this fringe ideology started in 3 decades ago, after another 3 decades this deviant group will be removed and traditional Islam will prevail. Lets not forget that a superpower and its allies Pakistan and Saudi Arabia along with most of the arab and western world was behind the military training and financial backing of this deviant ideology followers who created a virtual shadow financial network to fund these groups as proxies. IF there was no state especially at such a large scale backing these groups, they would never have had the reach they do today because they were never accepted by mainstream and traditional Islam.

Its Zawahiri on one hand and JI Israr Ahmed and Zaid Hamid types that are propagating deviant and increasingly sidelined version and warped view of Islam and inshaAllah(God willing) it won't be long before this will be finished. Its only a matter of time because once the state backing is removed from these groups they will be finished.

If you want to understand or read about this in more detail I suggest you get the excellent book "The Far enemy: by Fawaz Gerges". I can understand that being a non-muslim it can get a bit difficult negotiating these fringe groups but you will really apprecaite what I am saying if you spend some time getting background info from credible and well researched sources.

I mean its a process of education. Judging by posts here most people dont know about india or hindu religion/traditionas as well. Education must be 2 way
Ofcourse but two wrongs don't make a right. I have come across hate and Islamaphobic speech as well and you would be well aware about extremist organisations in India like Ram Sene, VHP e.t.c. that do the same but I don't justify a reciprocal hate because I know they don't represent mainstream Hinduism. I am in the enviable position of explaining mainstream and traditional Hinduism to muslims who don't know about it and vice versa and explaining that radical and fascist groups are aberrants and recent creations be it in Hinduism or Islam. Because I can't allow myself to take the easy way out to just have a tit for tat hate mindset.
 

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