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The Glory of the Mughal Empire

@Nihonjin1051

No that's not the case. For most of the Mughal empire's existence, Sikhs were NOT part of the administrative calculus. Many mughal regimes disliked sikhs or other non-muslims. And Sikhs taking timurid royal princes is not known. Sikhs came into their element when the mughal empire had decayed and virtually ceased to exist politically. There's no evidence that they took muslim mughal princes.

Interestingly the 'Asiatic' you see in Punjabis is due to ancient trade. You gotta remember that Punjab is the most north-west of India's provinces which has been trading with Central Asia for thousands of years so it's mostly coming from there
 
Thanks for the link , my friend. Its so interesting to see how much influence Mongols have had on Asia. I am truly amazed by their influence. They were able to conquer the Behemoth civilization that was China , they were able to conquer and destroy the Kievan Rus (progenitor of the Russian state), able to conquer the Abbasid Dynasty in the Middle East, conquered the Persians, and exact influence also into the Indian Subcontinent by way of the Mughal Empire. Mongols even tried conquering Japan. But we annihilated them both times (1274 and 1281)... :lol:

Don't forget that Kamikaze saved you. :)
Mongols attacked repeatedly the Turkic Khalaj dynasty ruled Delhi Sultanate (1221 - 1327), but failed to defeat them:
Mongol invasions of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Alat tribe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Timur Lang was the first Mongol successor to defeat and sack Delhi:
Chapter 9 – Timur’s Account of His Invasion of India and Sack of Delhi

Other Mongol defeats:
Mongol defeats - History Forum ~ All Empires - Page 1
 
@Nihonjin1051


Interestingly the 'Asiatic' you see in Punjabis is due to ancient trade. You gotta remember that Punjab is the most north-west of India's provinces which has been trading with Central Asia for thousands of years so it's mostly coming from there

Ah, great answer, bro. You're right, there must have been some human interaction between Sikhs and Tibetans. Thanks a bunch, mate.
 
Ah, great answer, bro. You're right, there must have been some human interaction between Sikhs and Tibetans. Thanks a bunch, mate.
man.. you cant possibly make such conclusion based on a few pics. next thing you will say sikhs are from china because few chubby ones might have small eyes... :lol:
i think this thread has served its purpose..
 
The Regional Courts in Mughal India

In the 150 years between the beginning of the Mughal empire and its greatest extent, the Mughal armies had to overcome opposition from local rulers in many parts of India. An important and powerful community was that of the Rajputs of western India. The Rajputs were Hindus and were fiercely opposed to the rule of the Muslim Mughals. The Rajputs controlled major strategic land routes in present-day Rajasthan, and were highly regarded as brave warriors.

For these reasons, the emperor Akbar was keen to subjugate them but also to keep them as loyal allies. He succeeded in doing this by arranging marriages between Mughal and Rajput families, and by giving Rajput princes important positions in his armies. Although the Rajputs were to some extent influenced by the luxury of their Mughal overlords, they nevertheless maintained their Hindu culture and continued to worship their family deities and observe Hindu holidays.

The paintings commissioned at Rajput courts such as those at Jaipur, Jodhpur or Bikaner show an interest in portraiture which comes from Mughal court painting, but they also use the bold colours and line associated with earlier Hindu painting.

Other small Hindu kingdoms in the Punjab hills were more remote and, although nominally under Mughal rule, were relatively isolated from Mughal influence. Their paintings and embroideries continued to illustrate Hindu mythological subjects, although they took to portraiture of local rulers.

The Sikhs of the Punjab plains followed their own religion. They, like the followers of Islam, worshipped one God, but they also gave great prominence to the succession of Gurus - teachers - who were the link between God and humankind. At first on relatively good terms with the Mughals,the Sikhs became a militant power as the Mughal rulers grew less tolerant of other religions. Ranjit Singh, one of the most famous Sikh leaders, set up an independent kingdom in the Punjab in 1801, which survived until the British annexed it in 1849.

To the south, the Mughals' main opponents were the small Muslim kingdoms, the sultanates of the Deccan plateau, which finally fell to Aurangzeb in 1686-7. The rich cities of Bijapur and Golconda had been important cultural centres since before the Mughal conquest, and beautiful paintings, textiles and metalwork were made there. Many examples of their fine craftsmanship were now made for Mughal patrons.

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Reference: The Regional Courts in Mughal India - Victoria and Albert Museum
 
@Contrarian , @hinduguy , @kalu_miah
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I have a question on Sikh people. I notice that some Sikhs have almond eyes that are common in Central Asian and East Asian peoples. Was there an intermarriage of Mongol , Turkic , Tibetan peoples into Punjab ?

Take a look at this picture; the lady to the far right is Punjabi woman, but her eyes are clearly mongoloid in feature. Even the sikh men in this picture have some facial traits common in Central Asian and East Asian peoples.

Your answer, please?

Its because they are descended from and are genetically around half Central Asian Iranics who were still not invaded and assimilated by Hunnic and Turkic East Asian type people, when they migrated to South Asia:
Indo-Scythians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Excellent link, my friend! So they are , indeed, related to Proto-Turkic peoples.


Scythians aren't Turkic.

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Mughal trade route. etc

Evolution of Indian trade networks. The main map shows the routes since Mughal times, Inset
A shows the major prehistorical cultural currents,
B: pre-Mauryan routes,
C: Mauryan routes,
D: routes c. 1st century CE, and
E: the "Z" shaped region of developed roads.
.
 
Mughals & the Royal City of Lahore

Lahore was the historic capital of the Panjab and one of the most important cities in the Mughal empire, founded in 1526. In the late 16th century, the great Mughal emperor Akbar had built a great fort there which was enlarged by his successors. The Mughals laid out gardens whose trees provided relief from the searing heat of summer, built palaces covered with polychrome tiles, and tombs decorated with marble inlaid with semi-precious stones.

Lahore was renowned for its carpets, the most luxurious examples woven from pashmina, the silken wool of the Himalayan goats that was also used to weave the Kashmir shawls worn at court. The city's many craftsmen included armourers, their weapons of watered steel delicately chiselled with arabesque patterns or inlaid with gold.

The emperors lived in Lahore for long periods, or stopped on their way from Delhi and Agra to the mountains and flower-filled valleys of Kashmir. The city attracted merchants, artists and scholars from all over the empire and beyond, including Europeans such as the Jesuit priests. Their gifts of western paintings and engravings profoundly influenced the developing style of Mughal painting in the late 16th and early 17th century.

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shahi-qila.jpg


Wazir-Khans-Mosque-in-Lahore-Pakistan.jpg
 
Excellent link, my friend! So they are , indeed, related to Proto-Turkic peoples.

Not exactly. Proto-Turkics are Altaic siberians related to Yakuts who are 60-100% East Asian:
Proto-Turkic language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Xiongnu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Saka on the other hand are Iranic tribes:
Saka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Kingdom of Khotan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Yuezhi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Yueh-ChihMigrations.jpg


Indo-Scythians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"The ancestors of the Indo-Scythians are thought to be Sakas (Scythian) tribes.

"One group of Indo-European speakers that makes an early appearance on the Xinjiang stage is the Saka (Ch. Sai). Saka is more a generic term than a name for a specific state or ethnic group; Saka tribes were part of a cultural continuum of early nomads across Siberia and the Central Eurasian steppe lands from Xinjiang to the Black Sea. Like the Scythians whom Herodotus describes in book four of his History (Saka is an Iranian word equivalent to the Greek Scythos, and many scholars refer to them together as Saka-Scythian), Sakas were Iranian-speaking horse nomads who deployed chariots in battle, sacrificed horses, and buried their dead in barrows or mound tombs called kurgans."[7]

Yuezhi expansion
In the 2nd century BC, a fresh nomadic movement started among the Central Asian tribes, producing lasting effects on the history of Rome in Europe and Bactria, Kabul, Parthia and India in the east. Recorded in the annals of the Han dynasty and other Chinese records, this great tribal movement began after the Yuezhi tribe was defeated by the Xiongnu, fleeing westwards after their defeat and creating a domino effect as they displaced other central Asian tribes in their path.

According to these ancient sources Modu Shanyu of the Xiongnu tribe of Mongolia attacked the Yuezhi and evicted them from their homeland between the Qilian Shan and Dunhuang. Leaving behind a remnant of their number, most of the population moved westwards.[8]

Early Indian literature records military alliances between the Sakas, Kambojas, Pahlavas and Paradas. Ancient Puranic traditions mention several joint invasions of India by Scythians. The conflict between the Bahu-Sagara of India and the Haihaya-Kamboja-Saka-Pahlava-Parada is well known as the war fought by "five hordes" (pāňca-ganha). The Sakas, Yavanas, Tusharas and Kambojas also fought the Kurukshetra war under the command of Sudakshina Kamboja. The Valmiki Ramayana also attests that the Sakas, Kambojas, Pahlavas and Yavanas fought together against the Vedic, Hinduking Vishwamitra of Kanauj.[citation needed] (doubtful)

Around 175 BC, the Yuezhi tribes (possibly related to the Tocharians who lived in eastern Tarim Basin area), were defeated by the Xiongnu tribes, and fled west into the Ili river area. There, they displaced the Sakas, who migrated south into Ferghana and Sogdiana. According to the Chinese historical chronicles (who call the Sakas, "Sai" 塞):

"The Yuezhi attacked the king of the Sai who moved a considerable distance to the south and the Yuezhi then occupied his lands" (Hanshu 61 4B).

Sometime after 155 BC, the Yuezhi were again defeated by an alliance of the Wusun and the Xiongnu, and were forced to move south, again displacing the Scythians, who migrated south towards Bactria, and south-west towards Parthia and Afghanistan.

The Sakas seem to have entered the territory of the Greco-Bactrian Kingdom around 145 BC, where they burnt to the ground the Greek city of Alexandria on the Oxus. The Yuezhi remained in Sogdiana on the northern bank of the Oxus, but they became suzerains of the Sakas in Bactrian territory, as described by the Chinese ambassador Zhang Qian who visited the region around 126 BC.

In Parthia, between 138–124 BC, the Sakas tribes of the Massagetae and Sacaraucae came into conflict with the Parthian Empire, winning several battles, and killing successively King Phraates II and King Artabanus I.

The Parthian king Mithridates II finally retook control of Central Asia, first by defeating the Yuezhi in Sogdiana in 115 BC, and then defeating the Scythians in Parthia and Seistan around 100 BC.[citation needed]

After their defeat, the Yuezhi tribes migrated into Bactria, which they were to control for several centuries, and from which they later conquered northern India to found the Kushan Empire."

Pashtuns just like Punjabi's may be remnants of this tribe. In both places they got mixed with pre-existing local population and the reason why they look different and have different genetic make up. Muslim ruling families in these areas of course got genetic contribution from later Turkic and Turko-Mongol invasions.

Its possible that Sikh's may have some small admixture from East Asian neighbors from those early times, but its no longer noticeable. Genetic admixture study may be able to reveal the extent of any North East Asian genes in Sikh population.

So my best guess:
Yuezhi/Tokharian Iranic + ANI (Ancestral North Indian) + ASI (Ancestral South Indian) = Sikh
 
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when british gave us independence they also gave independence to 300 or so kings who were given 3 choices : join india, join pakistan or independence.
Smaller kings were forced to join either india or pakistan either by inducement (money) or threat. Most fell in line. (except kashmir and hyderabad the big kings).
India promised money (privy purse) to all kings.
Mughals were not among kings given that option by british as far as I know, so no money.
In any case govt of India went back on the promise and stopped paying any money after 70s.

The King of Kashmir signed the Instrument of Accession to India in 1947. Seems you have spent so much time on PDF that you have forgotten your own history and have been brainwashed by the lies peddled by Pakistanis. See link below to refresh your memory.

Instrument of Accession
 
The King of Kashmir signed the Instrument of Accession to India in 1947. Seems you have spent so much time on PDF that you have forgotten your own history and have been brainwashed by the lies peddled by Pakistanis. See link below to refresh your memory.
Instrument of Accession
Nothing wrong in what @hinduguy had said. Out of the odd 600 princely states, fate of Junagad, Hyderabad and Kashmir remained undecided as the former two wanted to join Pakistan and Hari Singh was dreaming of an independent state. Papers of accession was signed on 26th October only after Hari Singh's nerve failed to act in proper order.
 
Nothing wrong in what @hinduguy had said. Out of the odd 600 princely states, fate of Junagad, Hyderabad and Kashmir remained undecided as the former two wanted to join Pakistan and Hari Singh was dreaming of an independent state.. Papers of accession was signed in 26th October only after Hari Singh's nerve failed to act in proper order.
So you are also questioning the accession of Kashmir to India?
Or are you saying these were the only three that were left on 15 August 1947?

It doesn't matter what one dreams of. What matters is their action. Every one of 300 princely states dreamt of independence,
 
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