What's new

Sukhoi-30MKI is India’s fallback fighter

The drop in RCS could be anywhere between 3-6 sq meters.

Quiet possible, but you have to put it in perspective:

MKI UPG clean => 3 to 6m² / MKI UPG full fuel capacity => 3 to 6m²
Other non stealth fighters clean => 0.5 to 5m² / Other non stealth fighters with 2 or even 3 external fuel tanks
=> multiple times increased RCS

That's why the RCS reduction of the MKI is the most crucial upgrade, not radar or weapon upgrades, where it already might offer advantages.
 
Some of the Legends once said
RCS is not the be all and end all of aerial warfare.

Each MKI due to their immensely powerful radar can act as mini AEWAC or command post, and guide other MKIs or smaller fighters flying radar silent.
it just means that the odds are heavily in favour of the MKI.
eat your pride
Mki will eat anything PAF has
Only if you get to fire them.
BVRs are always fired in a pair (one IR & one AR) at a single target so tell me wil PAF jet will manouver owt to save itself or take risk of going in attack mode and even if it still evades both the BVRs somehow Mki can still fight back and save itself deu to massive jammerson board



This dude was right
You have been able to do that with SAAB Gripen for a long time.
No need for a heavy fighter.
 
@gambit @Hodor @Knuckles @Windjammer @The Eagle Correct me if I am wrong:

There are two roles in any combat. You are either in offensive or defensive role. When you are in offensive role you have a disadvantage that you have to deal with both A2A and G2A assets of enemy at the same time which is an advantage for your enemy. In this scenario big RCS planes will obviously be an easy target especially for SAMs. Regarding USAF F-15s, US always ensures air dominance. Since 90's,Stealth bombers will go in and take out radars and SAMs and then F-15s will do the rest of the job. SU-30s won't have this supremacy. F-16s will beat SU-30 in Pakistan's Airspace. However on the other side of the border F-16s even B70 won't survive.
 
@gambit @Hodor @Knuckles @Windjammer @The Eagle Correct me if I am wrong:

There are two roles in any combat. You are either in offensive or defensive role. When you are in offensive role you have a disadvantage that you have to deal with both A2A and G2A assets of enemy at the same time which is an advantage for your enemy. In this scenario big RCS planes will obviously be an easy target especially for SAMs. Regarding USAF F-15s, US always ensures air dominance. Since 90's,Stealth bombers will go in and take out radars and SAMs and then F-15s will do the rest of the job. SU-30s won't have this supremacy. F-16s will beat SU-30 in Pakistan's Airspace. However on the other side of the border F-16s even B70 won't survive.
In modern warfare,no same jet (by same jet I mean not the type but the aircraft itself) will be tasked for AG and AA role in a single mission (yes it will carry AA as well,just in case).A complete package containing Fighters,Bombers,AWACS and EW will be sent for the mission.Just like how IAF and PAF operated in February.

This is a very complex and vast topic.Every airforce has its own techniques and methods for which they practice each day.You and I cannot simply discuss it here in detail.
 
@gambit @Hodor @Knuckles @Windjammer @The Eagle Correct me if I am wrong:

There are two roles in any combat. You are either in offensive or defensive role. When you are in offensive role you have a disadvantage that you have to deal with both A2A and G2A assets of enemy at the same time which is an advantage for your enemy. In this scenario big RCS planes will obviously be an easy target especially for SAMs. Regarding USAF F-15s, US always ensures air dominance. Since 90's,Stealth bombers will go in and take out radars and SAMs and then F-15s will do the rest of the job. SU-30s won't have this supremacy. F-16s will beat SU-30 in Pakistan's Airspace. However on the other side of the border F-16s even B70 won't survive.
When I was active duty, two things I learned early...

1- In a fight, you win not by fighting under your opponent's rules, but by forcing him to fight under yours.

While the statement seems to be vague, it actually applies to every scenario and situation, from individual combat to large formations of armies to sea and to air.

A 'rule' is literally every capability you have. If you are 150 cm in height, that is your 'rule'. If your opponent is 160 cm in height, that is his rule. You can call that 10 cm inferiority as a 'disadvantage' if you like, but your 150 cm and his 160 cm are traits that neither of you can break. In other words, you fight with what you have, not with what you wish to have.

2- A good fighter hides weaknesses. But a great fighter uses them.

But if a fighter wins every time, how do you know if there are any weaknesses? That is the point: You do not know.

This statement supports the previous. If your opponent consistently defeats you, it means somehow and some ways he forced you to fight under his rules despite any advantages you have over him. And both of you have advantages over each other. He just know how to get you to miss targeting his weaknesses as he attacks your weaknesses, and if he does it often enough, you will be psychologically conditioned to believe he has no weaknesses.

Add the two statements together and you will have an unbeatable opponent. It does not mean you cannot score some hits and even bloody his nose, but it could mean he allowed you to score some hits as parts of his overall strategy to defeat you. In the end, you do not know of his weaknesses and you will lose.

Some examples of the two statements combined...

A bomber is a rule that currently no other air force has. Am not talking merely building an aircraft that can deliver large quantity of quality of bombs. Am talking about the TOTALITY of the bomber itself, from hardware to doctrines to manpower. Literally everything that can consistently support the bomber. Under this rule, US airpower has subordinate rules, like the B-52, the B-1, and the B-2. Each supports the others to compensate for each other's weaknesses and to enhance each other's strengths. The flexibility of all three platforms make up another subordinate rule under the overall heading of 'bomber'.

Wild Weasel mission is rule that most air forces do not have. It is a bizarre tasking. Present yourself as a target then attacks whoever attacks you. It is a rule that most ground forces do not have experience against. Given today's SAM technology, the US have the most A2G 'aces' in the world.

The machine gun is a rule. It enhances the rate and volume of bullets while reduces the manpower to deliver that rate and volume of bullets.

The spear is a rule. The Chinese called the spear 'the king of weapons'. It extends the reach of the individual combatant while still deliver the same level of lethality.

The horse and the bow and arrows combined by the Mongols to create a rule that defeated all armies to create an empire that spanned continents. That rule contained volume of lethality and mobility.

The ship is a rule that landlocked countries cannot create.

Naval aviation, on the other hand, is a rule that can be used against landlocked countries often to great successes.

Logistics is a rule that the US military is premier. To date, the US military is only extrahemispherical military power. In the past, armies have traveled and conquered, but they depended on literally living off the land and if the land cannot supports the appetites of the soldiers, that army dies on the way. That does not apply to the US military and Desert Storm proved the superiority of logistics that made the US military the only true extrahemispherical military power.

Regarding your post...

Yes, an attacking air force will face air-air and air-ground resistance, assuming you are the defender. But this is where your intelligence capabilities comes in. What 'rules' do you think your opponent has that can bypass or even nullify your apparent advantages? If he flies below radar, that is a rule and have you considered that possibility? If you have AWACS, that is your rule and can counter. But if he also have AWACS, then it comes down to who can use the same capability at which time under what environment to either successfully attack or defend. This is why mission planning literally takes hours or even days ahead of the execution.

Understanding hardware is one component of war. It is a major component, but the human that wields the weapon is the more important factor. The human is unpredictable in both using the rules of war and creating new rules of war.
 
When I was active duty, two things I learned early...

1- In a fight, you win not by fighting under your opponent's rules, but by forcing him to fight under yours.

While the statement seems to be vague, it actually applies to every scenario and situation, from individual combat to large formations of armies to sea and to air.

A 'rule' is literally every capability you have. If you are 150 cm in height, that is your 'rule'. If your opponent is 160 cm in height, that is his rule. You can call that 10 cm inferiority as a 'disadvantage' if you like, but your 150 cm and his 160 cm are traits that neither of you can break. In other words, you fight with what you have, not with what you wish to have.

2- A good fighter hides weaknesses. But a great fighter uses them.

But if a fighter wins every time, how do you know if there are any weaknesses? That is the point: You do not know.

This statement supports the previous. If your opponent consistently defeats you, it means somehow and some ways he forced you to fight under his rules despite any advantages you have over him. And both of you have advantages over each other. He just know how to get you to miss targeting his weaknesses as he attacks your weaknesses, and if he does it often enough, you will be psychologically conditioned to believe he has no weaknesses.

Add the two statements together and you will have an unbeatable opponent. It does not mean you cannot score some hits and even bloody his nose, but it could mean he allowed you to score some hits as parts of his overall strategy to defeat you. In the end, you do not know of his weaknesses and you will lose.

Some examples of the two statements combined...

A bomber is a rule that currently no other air force has. Am not talking merely building an aircraft that can deliver large quantity of quality of bombs. Am talking about the TOTALITY of the bomber itself, from hardware to doctrines to manpower. Literally everything that can consistently support the bomber. Under this rule, US airpower has subordinate rules, like the B-52, the B-1, and the B-2. Each supports the others to compensate for each other's weaknesses and to enhance each other's strengths. The flexibility of all three platforms make up another subordinate rule under the overall heading of 'bomber'.

Wild Weasel mission is rule that most air forces do not have. It is a bizarre tasking. Present yourself as a target then attacks whoever attacks you. It is a rule that most ground forces do not have experience against. Given today's SAM technology, the US have the most A2G 'aces' in the world.

The machine gun is a rule. It enhances the rate and volume of bullets while reduces the manpower to deliver that rate and volume of bullets.

The spear is a rule. The Chinese called the spear 'the king of weapons'. It extends the reach of the individual combatant while still deliver the same level of lethality.

The horse and the bow and arrows combined by the Mongols to create a rule that defeated all armies to create an empire that spanned continents. That rule contained volume of lethality and mobility.

The ship is a rule that landlocked countries cannot create.

Naval aviation, on the other hand, is a rule that can be used against landlocked countries often to great successes.

Logistics is a rule that the US military is premier. To date, the US military is only extrahemispherical military power. In the past, armies have traveled and conquered, but they depended on literally living off the land and if the land cannot supports the appetites of the soldiers, that army dies on the way. That does not apply to the US military and Desert Storm proved the superiority of logistics that made the US military the only true extrahemispherical military power.

Regarding your post...

Yes, an attacking air force will face air-air and air-ground resistance, assuming you are the defender. But this is where your intelligence capabilities comes in. What 'rules' do you think your opponent has that can bypass or even nullify your apparent advantages? If he flies below radar, that is a rule and have you considered that possibility? If you have AWACS, that is your rule and can counter. But if he also have AWACS, then it comes down to who can use the same capability at which time under what environment to either successfully attack or defend. This is why mission planning literally takes hours or even days ahead of the execution.

Understanding hardware is one component of war. It is a major component, but the human that wields the weapon is the more important factor. The human is unpredictable in both using the rules of war and creating new rules of war.
Impressive.
 

Back
Top Bottom