What's new

Saudi Arabia aims to raise the population to between 50 to 60 million people by 2030

I agree with your overall post as well.

KSA, if it wanted, could become the USA of the Muslim world in the sense of attracting talented Muslims from all across the Muslim world. KSA, contrary to popular belief, is already one of the most diverse Muslim nations on the planet by virtue of welcoming Hajis from across the Muslim world for 1400 years in a row.
I think you are going a bit too complementary by saying they 'welcomed these populations'. It was and still purely a commercial venture to welcome these Hajjis. They come, spend money and boost the economy. For several 100 years it was the Ottoman's welcoming Hajjis.

This ritual of welcoming pilgrims pre-dates Islam: Mecca's nobility considered it essential to their survival because of the money it produces. In pre-Islam king Abraha attacked Mecca with elephants to divert pilgrims to his own new place of pagan worship realizing they weren't going to show up voluntarily

This seems like he has (yet again) listened to one of his western consultant advisers as a way to boost Saudi Arabia's standing. Much like the NOEM project that at $500BN could not be a more useless use of funds . You can be a prosperous and rich economy without growing in size. Look at Switzerland, and Finland.
 
The limit for #Riyadh is 25 million people and NEOM will take care of 10 million, and until 2030 NEOM will depend on government support and after that it will be sustainable.


The Crown Prince: 50 million people, the population of the Kingdom by 2030.. 25 million Saudis and 25 million expatriates


The limit for #Riyadh is 25 million people and NEOM will take care of 10 million, and until 2030 NEOM will depend on government support and after that it will be sustainable.



How will Saudi achieve that?
Is there high enough fertility rate or Saudi gonna open up for mass immigration?
 
How will Saudi achieve that?
Is there high enough fertility rate or Saudi gonna open up for mass immigration?
Huge subsidy in education and housing. This I think will be the strategy so families will be less worried if they have more than 2-3 kids
 
How will Saudi achieve that?
Is there high enough fertility rate or Saudi gonna open up for mass immigration?
The Saudi fertility rate is at 2.4 and can increase if the conditions are right..
And yes a lot more of permanent residencies for qualified people in all fields..
 
Huge subsidy in education and housing. This I think will be the strategy so families will be less worried if they have more than 2-3 kids
Subsidy for big houses, not apartment or small houses.
 
Does this mean Saudi is the regional superpower and not Turkey ??
It’s oil boom money that if carefully funneled to the right industries could diversify the economy to weather the downturns and grow beyond petroleum.

Either way, it’s great Saudi wants more people, for their own development and more possible opportunities for countries like Pakistani, to send people and therefore possibly more remittance and skills development.
 
Last edited:
I think you are going a bit too complementary by saying they 'welcomed these populations'. It was and still purely a commercial venture to welcome these Hajjis. They come, spend money and boost the economy. For several 100 years it was the Ottoman's welcoming Hajjis.

This ritual of welcoming pilgrims pre-dates Islam: Mecca's nobility considered it essential to their survival because of the money it produces. In pre-Islam king Abraha attacked Mecca with elephants to divert pilgrims to his own new place of pagan worship realizing they weren't going to show up voluntarily

This seems like he has (yet again) listened to one of his western consultant advisers as a way to boost Saudi Arabia's standing. Much like the NOEM project that at $500BN could not be a more useless use of funds . You can be a prosperous and rich economy without growing in size. Look at Switzerland, and Finland.

NOEM project is not inline with this Saudi ambition to raise fertility rate since like in many countries like Japan, South Korea, Singapore, and then China where urbanization forces big cities to favor apartments than houses, fertility rate tends to decline because it is not comfortable to raise big families when we live in apartment.

Saudi is already quite wealthy, raising the population is not intended to make them become country like Switzerland and Finland with no say in global power games. Saudi wants to keep being a major power in Middle East if some day Egypt become more powerful economically.

Saudi has huge land, they should build houses than apartments.
 
I think you are going a bit too complementary by saying they 'welcomed these populations'. It was and still purely a commercial venture to welcome these Hajjis. They come, spend money and boost the economy. For several 100 years it was the Ottoman's welcoming Hajjis.

This ritual of welcoming pilgrims pre-dates Islam: Mecca's nobility considered it essential to their survival because of the money it produces. In pre-Islam king Abraha attacked Mecca with elephants to divert pilgrims to his own new place of pagan worship realizing they weren't going to show up voluntarily

This seems like he has (yet again) listened to one of his western consultant advisers as a way to boost Saudi Arabia's standing. Much like the NOEM project that at $500BN could not be a more useless use of funds . You can be a prosperous and rich economy without growing in size. Look at Switzerland, and Finland.

Arabia has been a refuge/safe haven for immigrants and migrants for millennia, whether religious, economic or political ones. As well as for population movements out of Arabia. In fact since the earliest recordings available. Whether it be Sumerian, Akkadian, Babylonian, Egyptian, the few remaining IVC etc. sources. If you go further back, the first humans outside of Africa populated the remaining world after having inhabited Arabia prior hence why so many genetic haplogroups have their origin in Arabia/South West Asia.

One just needs to look at the massive modern-day migration into Arabia or even more commonly the substantial migration and permanent settlement of ethnic groups from within our own region. Balochi and Sindhis come to mind. The latter have always had age old ties to Arabia even prior to the IVC.

As for religious sites being prominent in Arabia and pilgrimages to those religious sites, this is nothing new. Many Abrahamic prophets lived or ventured into Arabia hence the frequent mentions of Arabia by name in the Torah, Bible etc. Don't forget the first monotheistic community in the world (Hanifs) either. As for pagan (ancient pre-Abrahamic Semitic religions - Abrahamic religions are themselves Semitic in origin mind you) pilgrimage sites, it was actually the other way around, the pilgrimage sites (since they gathered people from across of Western Asia and beyond), helped catapult trade.

To this day the Hajj is an important economic element in the lives of locals in Makkah and Madinah and all the business associated with it. This is a fairly normal thing and does not contradict anything or is something unique. This goes for all holy sites in the world regardless of religion.

As for Ottomans, have in mind that Ottoman control in Arabia was mostly limited to a few military garrisons/outposts and local representatives. Hijaz itself was largely autonomous and ruled by the Sharifs of Makkah. So the responsibility and honor of hosting Hajis continued to be in the hands of locals as it always had been and continue to be.

I agree with the need of KSA to increase their population. Given the huge geography of KSA (by far the largest country in Western Asia, the Middle East and the Muslim world - only Algeria is larger and Kazakhstan if you consider that country Muslim as most of its northern geography is inhabited by Christian ethnic Russians and not the Muslim Kazakhs) and potential for turning much (if not most of the land) into fertile lands again (as it once was in history) with new, future and improving technology as well as climatic models showing an increase of rainfall (thus a return to previous climatic eras), KSA should arguably have/ideally a population way above 100 million.

I know that I voiced concern for the high populations in the Arab world and rapid population growth on certain fronts (more in relation to how certain Arab governments will deal with the challenges this creates rather than a criticism of population increase as such) but at the same time a healthy and large population is absolutely crucial for a strong economic output, prosperity, social cohesion and happiness/mental well-being.

As for NEOM, I am a bit skeptical myself too and I am not sure how much of it is PR stunt, Western propaganda (exaggerations like that fake moon stuff that I have never seen confirmed anywhere outside of those said Western sources) but the idea behind it makes sense.

KSA already has a bigger (substantially) economy than Switzerland and Finland. The problem with those small but rich/wealthy European states is that they too will face the catastrophic effects of population decrease on all fronts whether it be in regards to economic prosperity, jobs or social cohesion. We already see signs of that.

It’s oil boom money that if carefully funneled to the right industries could diversify the economy to weather the downturns and grow beyond petroleum.

Either, it’s great Saudi wants more people, for their own development and more possible opportunities for Pakistanis and possibly more remittance and skills development.

The non-oil economy of KSA is growing very quickly. It grew 3.4% this year.


Diversification is already happening on every front and quite aggressively. I will give it no more than 10 years for KSA to look at oil as merely an important export rather than a key one. One just needs to look at neighboring UAE. KSA has lightyears more potential than UAE (for obvious reasons) to put it into perspective yet 10 million big UAE is doing remarkably well economically given its 500 billion USD GDP. Let us not forget the many subsidiary products that an oil industry is related too, in this regard KSA is already doing very well. See ARAMCO and SABIC.

However more needs to be done hence the aggressive Saudization policy, focus on education and hard science and political reforms all around.



Doing Business 2020: Saudi Arabia Accelerated Business Climate Reforms, Joins Ranks of 10 Most Improved



That was back in 2019, tons of reforms (positive ones) have occurred since then.

Top 18 economy in the world already and reaching the 1 trillion USD GDP barrier earlier this year with strong growth (5%) predicted in the next few years.
 
Last edited:
NOEM project is not inline with this Saudi ambition to raise fertility rate since like in many countries like Japan, South Korea, Singapore, and then China where urbanization forces big cities to favor apartments than houses, fertility rate tends to decline because it is not comfortable to raise big families when we live in apartment.

Saudi is already quite wealthy, raising the population is not intended to make them become country like Switzerland and Finland with no say in global power games. Saudi wants to keep being a major power in Middle East if some day Egypt become more powerful economically.

Saudi has huge land, they should build houses than apartments.

I fully agree with everything that you wrote.

I remember from my time in KSA and afterwards when reading news, that housing was a problem for many since locals prefer houses rather than apartments due to the large families and tradition of living together across more than 1 generation. Apartment living (alone) as well as apartment living as a whole is not as common as living in a house in KSA to this day for this very reason among locals.

The Housing Program works to provide housing solutions that enable Saudi families to own and benefit from suitable houses based on their personal needs and financial capabilities. The program also seeks to improve housing conditions for current and future generations through the provision of suitable and guaranteed financing solutions. This is in parallel with increasing the supply of housing units at reasonable prices within record time, and the implementation of programs specialized in securing housing for the society’s underprivileged. In addition, it develops and improves the legislative and regulatory environment for the housing sector, thus maximizing the sector's impact on the overall economy.
The Housing Program was launched in 2018, with the aim of creating a vibrant environment for families and society as a whole. Since its launch, the program focused on setting new standards for the development of the housing sector in order to enable citizens to obtain various housing options. This support will increase the percentage of Saudi families that own houses.
In the previous stage, the program accomplished significant success, as it was able to facilitate procedures of immediate entitlement for citizens to real-estate, instead of the 15-year waiting period, which doubled the movement of supply and demand in the program and its housing options and contributed to increasing the ownership rate from 47% in 2017 to 60% in 2020.
This was achieved through meeting housing demand by boosting access to adequate real-estate through establishing e-platforms like the “Sakani” platform. The program has succeeded in stimulating supply in the housing sector through effective partnerships with the private sector, represented by real estate developers and house-builders, in addition to the establishment of the National Housing Company and the “Etmam” Center, which facilitated the developers’ journey by providing a comprehensive digital platform. Moreover, the Developmental Housing Program was established as well to fill the gaps in supply for the most underprivileged families, and it worked in partnership with the non-profit sector to establish and rehabilitate more than 350 residential community associations.
The Housing Program also worked on developing and improving regulations as well as regulatory and legislative activities, by establishing the General Authority for Real Estate to be the central regulatory entity for the real estate sector. The program also launched the lease documentation platform "Ejar platform" to regulate the real estate rental sector in the Kingdom in light of its importance in preserving contractors’ rights.
In the next stage, the Housing Program will resume its efforts to increase the percentage of Saudi families owning houses to 70% by 2030. This will be accomplished by targeting the most underprivileged segments of society. the service to society’s segments and further target the most underprivileged segments. In addition, the program will boost the attractiveness of the sector for investment by the private sector in an effort to support the stability and sustainability of the sector under different economic conditions.


 
What is the secret of the cross-border cities between Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Jordan to complete the NEOM global project in Sharm El Sheikh..

 
I believe fertility rate is a inverse of % population living in cities.

Cities not only are expensive and demands long hours of work and stress, they also offer entertainment and freedom from societal expectations like marrying and having big families. Especially for females, cities presents opportunity for education and career. By the time a female have Master Degree and enters career she will practically have passed the most optimal fertile childbearing age, which is around 16 years to 25 years. If she choose career then its gets even more tough to have children.

Many city dwellers simply see children as burden on finance and not least the personal freedom.

Worlwide fertility rates are tumbling, which corresponds well with the recent world changing event of mass migration to cities the past century. The only places where feritlity rate are still very high are countries where cast majority still live in rural areas, like Sub Sahara Africa and Afghanistan.

If Saudi manages to pull this off then it would be a example of a country that managed to achieve something very difficult.
 
With 2021 unemployment rates at 11%, even in a top down , MBS centered world, it is impossible to tell your population to have more children. Parents have to pay for having more kids (food/education). Even if subsidized/incentivized, a prosperous population will not multiply. This is why Israel's demography vs. the palestinians are in the opposite trajectory.

It is something his advisers (likely western consultants) are tell him Saudi Arabia should do / and is possible. Realistically, if China cannot reverse its population decline with a fertility ratio of less than 2, there is no way Saudi Arabia can increase it. No place is more command and control than China.

Fertility rate (population replacement rate) is trending downwards and has approached 2 in Saudi Arabia and predicted to decline further.

What is possible is to make the existing population more economically competitive. Quality matters as much as quantity in a knowledge economy. Saudis are going to overthrow their king before they work blue collar jobs. No way that will happen.
 
With 2021 unemployment rates at 11%, even in a top down , MBS centered world, it is impossible to tell your population to have more children. Parents have to pay for having more kids (food/education). Even if subsidized/incentivized, a prosperous population will not multiply. This is why Israel's demography vs. the palestinians are in the opposite trajectory.

It is something his advisers (likely western consultants) are tell him Saudi Arabia should do / and is possible. Realistically, if China cannot reverse its population decline with a fertility ratio of less than 2, there is no way Saudi Arabia can increase it. No place is more command and control than China.

Fertility rate (population replacement rate) is trending downwards and has approached 2 in Saudi Arabia and predicted to decline further.

What is possible is to make the existing population more economically competitive. Quality matters as much as quantity in a knowledge economy. Saudis are going to overthrow their king before they work blue collar jobs. No way that will happen.

I think that you have an outdated view of which jobs locals do in KSA nowadays. They do almost all the manual jobs available outside of the least well-paid and the kind of jobs that expats will outcompete them in due to such expats much lower pay (compared to the average local wage) but very high pay compared to those same expats homelands. So if you are an employer in KSA (whether a local or foreign firm) you are never going to employ a local that wants 2 times the pay and works as hard as the expat or less hard due to the locals safety net (unlike the expat).

Some manual jobs in KSA (from what I read) are now off-limits for expats. I suggest reading about Saudization.

Add the impressive rise of Saudi females in the workforce (I created a thread about that a few months ago to show the healthy and impressive reforms in KSA in this regard which should serve as an example for Pakistan = we are abysmal in this regard in comparison) and you can guess the rest.


As for fertile rates, I think that it is 2.4 in KSA which is a surprisingly large fertility rate for a country this rich and developed. This is only due to local culture (emphasis on large families traditionally), Islam and largely no extremist Western feminism which is mostly a Western plot to destroy the nuclear family in Muslim nations.

Even successful (internationally) Saudi Arabian career women such as Deemah Al-Yayha is the mother of 4 and in her late 30's from an interview I read about her.


1659919148768.png


Good-looking at that too like vast majority of Saudi Arabian women.




Notice the tharki on the left corner.:lol:
 
Last edited:
With 2021 unemployment rates at 11%, even in a top down , MBS centered world, it is impossible to tell your population to have more children. Parents have to pay for having more kids (food/education). Even if subsidized/incentivized, a prosperous population will not multiply. This is why Israel's demography vs. the palestinians are in the opposite trajectory.

It is something his advisers (likely western consultants) are tell him Saudi Arabia should do / and is possible. Realistically, if China cannot reverse its population decline with a fertility ratio of less than 2, there is no way Saudi Arabia can increase it. No place is more command and control than China.

Fertility rate (population replacement rate) is trending downwards and has approached 2 in Saudi Arabia and predicted to decline further.

What is possible is to make the existing population more economically competitive. Quality matters as much as quantity in a knowledge economy. Saudis are going to overthrow their king before they work blue collar jobs. No way that will happen.
Any credible sources or you're pulling this from your jealous sick mind?

Unemployment Rate in Saudi Arabia decreased to 6 percent in the first quarter of 2022 from 6.90 percent in the fourth quarter of 2021

https://tradingeconomics.com/saudi-arabia/unemployment-rate


The fertility rate in Saudi Arabia is 2.274 births per woman, which is above the population replacement rate of 2.1 births per woman.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/saudi-arabia-population
 
I fully agree with everything that you wrote.

I remember from my time in KSA and afterwards when reading news, that housing was a problem for many since locals prefer houses rather than apartments due to the large families and tradition of living together across more than 1 generation. Apartment living (alone) as well as apartment living as a whole is not as common as living in a house in KSA to this day for this very reason among locals.

The Housing Program works to provide housing solutions that enable Saudi families to own and benefit from suitable houses based on their personal needs and financial capabilities. The program also seeks to improve housing conditions for current and future generations through the provision of suitable and guaranteed financing solutions. This is in parallel with increasing the supply of housing units at reasonable prices within record time, and the implementation of programs specialized in securing housing for the society’s underprivileged. In addition, it develops and improves the legislative and regulatory environment for the housing sector, thus maximizing the sector's impact on the overall economy.
The Housing Program was launched in 2018, with the aim of creating a vibrant environment for families and society as a whole. Since its launch, the program focused on setting new standards for the development of the housing sector in order to enable citizens to obtain various housing options. This support will increase the percentage of Saudi families that own houses.
In the previous stage, the program accomplished significant success, as it was able to facilitate procedures of immediate entitlement for citizens to real-estate, instead of the 15-year waiting period, which doubled the movement of supply and demand in the program and its housing options and contributed to increasing the ownership rate from 47% in 2017 to 60% in 2020.
This was achieved through meeting housing demand by boosting access to adequate real-estate through establishing e-platforms like the “Sakani” platform. The program has succeeded in stimulating supply in the housing sector through effective partnerships with the private sector, represented by real estate developers and house-builders, in addition to the establishment of the National Housing Company and the “Etmam” Center, which facilitated the developers’ journey by providing a comprehensive digital platform. Moreover, the Developmental Housing Program was established as well to fill the gaps in supply for the most underprivileged families, and it worked in partnership with the non-profit sector to establish and rehabilitate more than 350 residential community associations.
The Housing Program also worked on developing and improving regulations as well as regulatory and legislative activities, by establishing the General Authority for Real Estate to be the central regulatory entity for the real estate sector. The program also launched the lease documentation platform "Ejar platform" to regulate the real estate rental sector in the Kingdom in light of its importance in preserving contractors’ rights.
In the next stage, the Housing Program will resume its efforts to increase the percentage of Saudi families owning houses to 70% by 2030. This will be accomplished by targeting the most underprivileged segments of society. the service to society’s segments and further target the most underprivileged segments. In addition, the program will boost the attractiveness of the sector for investment by the private sector in an effort to support the stability and sustainability of the sector under different economic conditions.


There are huge apartments now a days..two story ones.. really huge.. and that will be fine with a lot of Saudi youth to bring up their families of two to 4 kids in NEOM.. and not only Saudis.. there will be a majority of very qualified permanent residents there from all over the world..It will accommodate 10 million people..
 

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom