VCheng
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2010
- Messages
- 48,403
- Reaction score
- 57
- Country
- Location
Please be honest now: would you believe any such proof that could be provided?
You do realize that works both ways, given the above.
Revisiting Osama bin Ladin's fake raid
- Thread starter PradoTLC
- Start date
- Status
Please be honest now: would you believe any such proof that could be provided?
You do realize that works both ways, given the above.
Abid123
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2021
- Messages
- 2,829
- Reaction score
- -8
- Country
- Location
VCheng
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2010
- Messages
- 48,403
- Reaction score
- 57
- Country
- Location
For any students of process improvements, there are many lessons in the US journey from the fiasco in Iran to the Abbottabad raid. I am sure that progress has not been easy for USA and requires tremendous amounts of effort and resources on an ongoing basis, to prepare and hone such abilities in peacetime to be ready when needed.
LeGenD
MODERATOR
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2006
- Messages
- 15,813
- Reaction score
- 162
- Country
- Location
Bush administration was OK with releasing photos of the dead bodies of Saddam Hussein's sons, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, and Saddam Hussein. The lesser known fact is that these photos fueled Anti-American sentiments and Iraq saw plenty of bloodshed during the (2003 - 2008) period.
Obama administration decided against releasing photos of the dead bodies of virtually (any) high profile target, therefore.
Senator describes "gruesome" bin Laden photos
A Republican who sits on the Senate Armed Services Committee viewed the death photos of Osama bin Laden on Wednesday and said the pictures -- some gruesome -- leave no doubt the al Qaeda leader is dead.
Obama: No To Bin Laden Pics
U.S. President Barack Obama has decided not to release photographs of Osama bin Laden's dead body, saying the graphic images could be used to incite violence against Americans or be used as "a propaganda tool."
www.rferl.org
Understandable.
Americans have a history of conducting announced as well as unannounced operations around the world.
The Abbottabad raid dubbed Operation Neptune Spear was an unannounced operation:
"The effort to track and execute Osama bin Laden, which took place 10 years ago this weekend, was the most closely held operational secret in modern American history—a highly sensitive, politically fraught and physically risky mission that involved breaching the sovereign territory of a purported U.S. ally to target an icon of international violence and terror."
‘I’d Never Been Involved in Anything as Secret as This’
The plan to kill Osama bin Laden—from the spycraft to the assault to its bizarre political backdrop—as told by the people in the room.
www.politico.com
Americans closely studied radar technology in possession of Pakistan and created a mockup of the Abbottabad compound to prepare for the raid months in advance before the deed. This information was disclosed in following book in 2015:
Amazon.com: Relentless Strike: The Secret History of Joint Special Operations Command eBook : Naylor, Sean: Kindle Store
Relentless Strike: The Secret History of Joint Special Operations Command - Kindle edition by Naylor, Sean. Download it once and read it on your Kindle device, PC, phones or tablets. Use features like bookmarks, note taking and highlighting while reading Relentless Strike: The Secret History of...
www.amazon.com
Why would US go to such lengths to prepare for a facilitated raid?
Why would US consider using stealth technology in a facilitated raid?
Abbottabad Commission Report
CIA 3D model of the Abbottabad compound
Dr. Shakeel Afridi
Dead bodies found in the compound; these people are identified in Abbottabad Commission Report
Documents recovered from the Abbottabad compound
General Ehsan ul Haq's account
Pakistan showing the preserved part of the crashed helicopter to a Chinese team
Osama Bin Laden's family
There is so much information on hand by now. Try to connect these dots.
You are not reading my posts properly.
No American helicopter loitered above the compound for over 40 minutes.
-----
Fifteen minutes later, the helicopters ducked into an alpine valley and slipped, undetected, into Pakistani airspace. For more than sixty years, Pakistan’s military has maintained a state of high alert against its eastern neighbor, India. Because of this obsession, Pakistan’s “principal air defenses are all pointing east,” Shuja Nawaz, an expert on the Pakistani Army and the author of “Crossed Swords: Pakistan, Its Army, and the Wars Within,” told me. Senior defense and Administration officials concur with this assessment, but a Pakistani senior military official, whom I reached at his office, in Rawalpindi, disagreed. “No one leaves their borders unattended,” he said. Though he declined to elaborate on the location or orientation of Pakistan’s radars—“It’s not where the radars are or aren’t”—he said that the American infiltration was the result of “technological gaps we have vis-à-vis the U.S.” The Black Hawks, each of which had two pilots and a crewman from the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, or the Night Stalkers, had been modified to mask heat, noise, and movement; the copters’ exteriors had sharp, flat angles and were covered with radar-dampening “skin.”
(2)
HELO ONE crash-landed on a wall of the compound.
On May 1, at 10:30 p.m. local time, the team took off from Jalalabad, Afghanistan, and headed for the compound in two stealth equipped UH-60 Blackhawks.[12] The two helicopters included twenty-three SEALs, an interpreter, and a combat dog (brought along in case Bin Laden hid in the compound). The Operation was given the code name “Neptune Spear.” Neptune was the Roman variant of the Greek water god Poseidon, and his spear was the trident, the symbol of the Navy SEALs. As the operators descended into the compound, one of the specially equipped Blackhawk’s lost control because the high walls presented different air conditions than the chain link fence the team had trained on. The pilot was able to maintain some control, but the tail hit the walls surrounding the compound and forced the helo to make a soft-crash landing.[13]
(1)
When the helicopter began getting away from the pilot, he pulled back on the cyclic, which controls the pitch of the rotor blades, only to find the aircraft unresponsive. The high walls of the compound and the warm temperatures had caused the Black Hawk to descend inside its own rotor wash—a hazardous aerodynamic situation known as “settling with power.” In North Carolina, this potential problem had not become apparent, because the chain-link fencing used in rehearsals had allowed air to flow freely. A former helicopter pilot with extensive special-operations experience said of the pilot’s situation, “It’s pretty spooky—I’ve been in it myself. The only way to get out of it is to push the cyclic forward and fly out of this vertical silo you’re dropping through. That solution requires altitude. If you’re settling with power at two thousand feet, you’ve got plenty of time to recover. If you’re settling with power at fifty feet, you’re going to hit the ground.”
The pilot scrapped the plan to fast-rope and focussed on getting the aircraft down. He aimed for an animal pen in the western section of the compound. The SEALs on board braced themselves as the tail rotor swung around, scraping the security wall. The pilot jammed the nose forward to drive it into the dirt and prevent his aircraft from rolling onto its side. Cows, chickens, and rabbits scurried. With the Black Hawk pitched at a forty-five-degree angle astride the wall, the crew sent a distress call to the idling Chinooks.
(2)
Distress call was sent to the BACKUP FORCE to dispatch another helicopter to the compound.
HELO TWO dropped additional troops on the compound and was parked somewhere.
The BACKUP FORCE had a total of 4 helicopters at its disposal. Two were parked near the border while two were parked in a remote location inside Pakistan. One moved to the compound while responding to the distress call:
Forty-five minutes after the Black Hawks departed, four MH-47 Chinooks launched from the same runway in Jalalabad. Two of them flew to the border, staying on the Afghan side; the other two proceeded into Pakistan. Deploying four Chinooks was a last-minute decision made after President Barack Obama said he wanted to feel assured that the Americans could “fight their way out of Pakistan.” Twenty-five additional SEALs from DEVGRU, pulled from a squadron stationed in Afghanistan, sat in the Chinooks that remained at the border; this “quick-reaction force” would be called into action only if the mission went seriously wrong. The third and fourth Chinooks were each outfitted with a pair of M134 Miniguns. They followed the Black Hawks’ initial flight path but landed at a predetermined point on a dry riverbed in a wide, unpopulated valley in northwest Pakistan. The nearest house was half a mile away. On the ground, the copters’ rotors were kept whirring while operatives monitored the surrounding hills for encroaching Pakistani helicopters or fighter jets. One of the Chinooks was carrying fuel bladders, in case the other aircraft needed to refill their tanks.
(2)
A CH-47 Chinook on standby at Jalalabad was launched to make up for the downed craft, and the operators began conducting the raid. The primary weapon system of the SEALs was the Hecker & Koch 416, and advanced AR platform with a piston-driven firing pin. The weapon system comes in a number of configurations, but for close quarters operations, the short barrel variant would provide increased maneuverability in the compact urban space. As the team began clearing the compound, resistance was met at both the guest house and the main building. In the resulting shoot out, Abu Ahmad al-Kuwaiti (bin Laden’s primary courier), a second courier and his wife, bin Laden’s son Khalid, and Osama bin Laden himself were killed.[14]
(1)
When the rescue Chinook eventually arrived, a medic stepped out and knelt over the corpse. He injected a needle into bin Laden’s body and extracted two bone-marrow samples. More DNA was taken with swabs. One of the bone-marrow samples went into the Black Hawk. The other went into the Chinook, along with bin Laden’s body.
(2)
Americans destroyed HELO ONE before leaving
Next, the SEALs needed to destroy the damaged Black Hawk. The pilot, armed with a hammer that he kept for such situations, smashed the instrument panel, the radio, and the other classified fixtures inside the cockpit. Then the demolition unit took over. They placed explosives near the avionics system, the communications gear, the engine, and the rotor head. “You’re not going to hide the fact that it’s a helicopter,” the special-operations officer said. “But you want to make it unusable.” The SEALs placed extra C-4 charges under the carriage, rolled thermite grenades inside the copter’s body, and then backed up. Helo one burst into flames while the demolition team boarded the Chinook. The women and children, who were being left behind for the Pakistani authorities, looked puzzled, scared, and shocked as they watched the SEALs board the helicopters. Amal, bin Laden’s wife, continued her harangue. Then, as a giant fire burned inside the compound walls, the Americans flew away.
(2)
(1) https://www.nellis.af.mil/News/Article/2591901/operation-neptune-spear-10-year-anniversary/
(2) https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/08/08/getting-bin-laden
-----
As pointed out in here, Pakistani who reached the site did not attempt to intervene because they assumed that Pakistan Army was conducting this operation. This is understandable because nobody in Pakistan was expecting a foreign military force to be operating this deep inside Pakistan at any point in time.
People living near the compound have hazy memory of what happened.
One claimed that he saw an Apache helicopter.
One heard a helicopter followed by a blast and then silence. Most likely the Chinook which responded to the distress call of HELO ONE; the blast in question is of HELO ONE when it was blown by American troops; silence after the Americans left.
People like to speculate all the time; some speculated that a helicopter was shot down to explain the blast that they heard.
Sorry but most of the locals have no idea what happened.
Only those who were involved in the operation could provide reliable information. And Abbottabad Commission Report is the most reliable Pakistani document in relation.
Not difficult to understand.
Seymour Hersh was not privy to this operation - his account is refuted by those who were privy to the operation in here, here, here, and here.
Hersh's Account of the Bin Laden Raid is Journalistic Malpractice
When a journalist writes a tell-all story about a classified operation, and he suspects the story will catalyze anti-American anger, provide fuel for terrorist groups, and cause severe friction with foreign governments, the act of publication is morally fraught. When the story is based on...
As pointed out in here, journalists all over the world have one thing in common: they care about ratings and will LIE to boost their ratings. This is their modus operandi for staying in spotlight and earning big bucks. Seymour Hersh is not an exception to this practice and he accused the Establishment of providing shelter to Osama Bin Laden in Abbottabad in his book.
For example, Moeed Pirzada is a decent journalist and man. This does not means that he gets everything right. Journalists will look at a banner and make a story out of from it.
PradoTLC
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2007
- Messages
- 8,888
- Reaction score
- -3
- Country
- Location
Reminds me of the IAF showing a piece of aim120 as proof of F16 shot down..
In reality it was evidence how IAF got its butt kicked
Obama refused to reveal photos of US troops engaging in gross crimes against humanity.
What do you think this tells us about them?
Bush administration was OK with releasing photos of the dead bodies of Saddam Hussein's sons, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, and Saddam Hussein. The lesser known fact is that these photos fueled Anti-American sentiments and Iraq saw plenty of bloodshed during the (2003 - 2008) period.
Obama administration decided against releasing photos of the dead bodies of virtually (any) high profile target, therefore.
Senator describes "gruesome" bin Laden photos
A Republican who sits on the Senate Armed Services Committee viewed the death photos of Osama bin Laden on Wednesday and said the pictures -- some gruesome -- leave no doubt the al Qaeda leader is dead.www.reuters.com
Obama: No To Bin Laden Pics
U.S. President Barack Obama has decided not to release photographs of Osama bin Laden's dead body, saying the graphic images could be used to incite violence against Americans or be used as "a propaganda tool."
Understandable.
Americans have a history of conducting announced as well as unannounced operations around the world.
The Abbottabad raid dubbed Operation Neptune Spear was an unannounced operation:
"The effort to track and execute Osama bin Laden, which took place 10 years ago this weekend, was the most closely held operational secret in modern American history—a highly sensitive, politically fraught and physically risky mission that involved breaching the sovereign territory of a purported U.S. ally to target an icon of international violence and terror."
‘I’d Never Been Involved in Anything as Secret as This’
The plan to kill Osama bin Laden—from the spycraft to the assault to its bizarre political backdrop—as told by the people in the room.
Americans closely studied radar technology in possession of Pakistan and created a mockup of the Abbottabad compound to prepare for the raid months in advance before the deed. This information was disclosed in following book in 2015:
Amazon.com: Relentless Strike: The Secret History of Joint Special Operations Command eBook : Naylor, Sean: Kindle Store
Relentless Strike: The Secret History of Joint Special Operations Command - Kindle edition by Naylor, Sean. Download it once and read it on your Kindle device, PC, phones or tablets. Use features like bookmarks, note taking and highlighting while reading Relentless Strike: The Secret History of...www.amazon.com
Why would US go to such lengths to prepare for a facilitated raid?
Why would US consider using stealth technology in a facilitated raid?
Abbottabad Commission Report
CIA 3D model of the Abbottabad compound
Dr. Shakeel Afridi
Dead bodies found in the compound; these people are identified in Abbottabad Commission Report
Documents recovered from the Abbottabad compound
General Ehsan ul Haq's account
Pakistan showing the preserved part of the crashed helicopter to a Chinese team
Osama Bin Laden's family
There is so much information on hand by now. Try to connect these dots.
You are not reading my posts properly.
No American helicopter loitered above the compound for over 40 minutes.
-----
Fifteen minutes later, the helicopters ducked into an alpine valley and slipped, undetected, into Pakistani airspace. For more than sixty years, Pakistan’s military has maintained a state of high alert against its eastern neighbor, India. Because of this obsession, Pakistan’s “principal air defenses are all pointing east,” Shuja Nawaz, an expert on the Pakistani Army and the author of “Crossed Swords: Pakistan, Its Army, and the Wars Within,” told me. Senior defense and Administration officials concur with this assessment, but a Pakistani senior military official, whom I reached at his office, in Rawalpindi, disagreed. “No one leaves their borders unattended,” he said. Though he declined to elaborate on the location or orientation of Pakistan’s radars—“It’s not where the radars are or aren’t”—he said that the American infiltration was the result of “technological gaps we have vis-à-vis the U.S.” The Black Hawks, each of which had two pilots and a crewman from the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, or the Night Stalkers, had been modified to mask heat, noise, and movement; the copters’ exteriors had sharp, flat angles and were covered with radar-dampening “skin.”
(2)
HELO ONE crash-landed on a wall of the compound.
On May 1, at 10:30 p.m. local time, the team took off from Jalalabad, Afghanistan, and headed for the compound in two stealth equipped UH-60 Blackhawks.[12] The two helicopters included twenty-three SEALs, an interpreter, and a combat dog (brought along in case Bin Laden hid in the compound). The Operation was given the code name “Neptune Spear.” Neptune was the Roman variant of the Greek water god Poseidon, and his spear was the trident, the symbol of the Navy SEALs. As the operators descended into the compound, one of the specially equipped Blackhawk’s lost control because the high walls presented different air conditions than the chain link fence the team had trained on. The pilot was able to maintain some control, but the tail hit the walls surrounding the compound and forced the helo to make a soft-crash landing.[13]
(1)
When the helicopter began getting away from the pilot, he pulled back on the cyclic, which controls the pitch of the rotor blades, only to find the aircraft unresponsive. The high walls of the compound and the warm temperatures had caused the Black Hawk to descend inside its own rotor wash—a hazardous aerodynamic situation known as “settling with power.” In North Carolina, this potential problem had not become apparent, because the chain-link fencing used in rehearsals had allowed air to flow freely. A former helicopter pilot with extensive special-operations experience said of the pilot’s situation, “It’s pretty spooky—I’ve been in it myself. The only way to get out of it is to push the cyclic forward and fly out of this vertical silo you’re dropping through. That solution requires altitude. If you’re settling with power at two thousand feet, you’ve got plenty of time to recover. If you’re settling with power at fifty feet, you’re going to hit the ground.”
The pilot scrapped the plan to fast-rope and focussed on getting the aircraft down. He aimed for an animal pen in the western section of the compound. The SEALs on board braced themselves as the tail rotor swung around, scraping the security wall. The pilot jammed the nose forward to drive it into the dirt and prevent his aircraft from rolling onto its side. Cows, chickens, and rabbits scurried. With the Black Hawk pitched at a forty-five-degree angle astride the wall, the crew sent a distress call to the idling Chinooks.
(2)
Distress call was sent to the BACKUP FORCE to dispatch another helicopter to the compound.
HELO TWO dropped additional troops on the compound and was parked somewhere.
The BACKUP FORCE had a total of 4 helicopters at its disposal. Two were parked near the border while two were parked in a remote location inside Pakistan. One moved to the compound while responding to the distress call:
Forty-five minutes after the Black Hawks departed, four MH-47 Chinooks launched from the same runway in Jalalabad. Two of them flew to the border, staying on the Afghan side; the other two proceeded into Pakistan. Deploying four Chinooks was a last-minute decision made after President Barack Obama said he wanted to feel assured that the Americans could “fight their way out of Pakistan.” Twenty-five additional SEALs from DEVGRU, pulled from a squadron stationed in Afghanistan, sat in the Chinooks that remained at the border; this “quick-reaction force” would be called into action only if the mission went seriously wrong. The third and fourth Chinooks were each outfitted with a pair of M134 Miniguns. They followed the Black Hawks’ initial flight path but landed at a predetermined point on a dry riverbed in a wide, unpopulated valley in northwest Pakistan. The nearest house was half a mile away. On the ground, the copters’ rotors were kept whirring while operatives monitored the surrounding hills for encroaching Pakistani helicopters or fighter jets. One of the Chinooks was carrying fuel bladders, in case the other aircraft needed to refill their tanks.
(2)
A CH-47 Chinook on standby at Jalalabad was launched to make up for the downed craft, and the operators began conducting the raid. The primary weapon system of the SEALs was the Hecker & Koch 416, and advanced AR platform with a piston-driven firing pin. The weapon system comes in a number of configurations, but for close quarters operations, the short barrel variant would provide increased maneuverability in the compact urban space. As the team began clearing the compound, resistance was met at both the guest house and the main building. In the resulting shoot out, Abu Ahmad al-Kuwaiti (bin Laden’s primary courier), a second courier and his wife, bin Laden’s son Khalid, and Osama bin Laden himself were killed.[14]
(1)
When the rescue Chinook eventually arrived, a medic stepped out and knelt over the corpse. He injected a needle into bin Laden’s body and extracted two bone-marrow samples. More DNA was taken with swabs. One of the bone-marrow samples went into the Black Hawk. The other went into the Chinook, along with bin Laden’s body.
(2)
Americans destroyed HELO ONE before leaving
Next, the SEALs needed to destroy the damaged Black Hawk. The pilot, armed with a hammer that he kept for such situations, smashed the instrument panel, the radio, and the other classified fixtures inside the cockpit. Then the demolition unit took over. They placed explosives near the avionics system, the communications gear, the engine, and the rotor head. “You’re not going to hide the fact that it’s a helicopter,” the special-operations officer said. “But you want to make it unusable.” The SEALs placed extra C-4 charges under the carriage, rolled thermite grenades inside the copter’s body, and then backed up. Helo one burst into flames while the demolition team boarded the Chinook. The women and children, who were being left behind for the Pakistani authorities, looked puzzled, scared, and shocked as they watched the SEALs board the helicopters. Amal, bin Laden’s wife, continued her harangue. Then, as a giant fire burned inside the compound walls, the Americans flew away.
(2)
(1) https://www.nellis.af.mil/News/Article/2591901/operation-neptune-spear-10-year-anniversary/
(2) https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/08/08/getting-bin-laden
-----
As pointed out in here, Pakistani who reached the site did not attempt to intervene because they assumed that Pakistan Army was conducting this operation. This is understandable because nobody in Pakistan was expecting a foreign military force to be operating this deep inside Pakistan at any point in time.
People living near the compound have hazy memory of what happened.
One claimed that he saw an Apache helicopter.
One heard a helicopter followed by a blast and then silence. Most likely the Chinook which responded to the distress call of HELO ONE; the blast in question is of HELO ONE when it was blown by American troops; silence after the Americans left.
People like to speculate all the time; some speculated that a helicopter was shot down to explain the blast that they heard.
Sorry but most of the locals have no idea what happened.
Only those who were involved in the operation could provide reliable information. And Abbottabad Commission Report is the most reliable Pakistani document in relation.
Not difficult to understand.
Seymour Hersh was not privy to this operation - his account is refuted by those who were privy to the operation in here, here, here, and here.
Hersh's Account of the Bin Laden Raid is Journalistic Malpractice
When a journalist writes a tell-all story about a classified operation, and he suspects the story will catalyze anti-American anger, provide fuel for terrorist groups, and cause severe friction with foreign governments, the act of publication is morally fraught. When the story is based on...www.lawfareblog.com
As pointed out in here, journalists all over the world have one thing in common: they care about ratings and will LIE to boost their ratings. This is their modus operandi for staying in spotlight and earning big bucks. Seymour Hersh is not an exception to this practice and he accused the Establishment of providing shelter to Osama Bin Laden in Abbottabad in his book.
For example, Moeed Pirzada is a decent journalist and man. This does not means that he gets everything right. Journalists will look at a banner and make a story out of from it.
Again no evidence of proof death…
It amazes me you are willing to provide so much irrelevant data but no proof you actually killed OBL that particular day
Let’s not get in the credibility bit here Seymour Hersh is a 100 times more credible than any US government. He provided legendary investigative reports and continues to provide to that such as the nord stream gas pipe line blown up by US operatives
Last edited:
LeGenD
MODERATOR
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2006
- Messages
- 15,813
- Reaction score
- 162
- Country
- Location
This is different topic, and deflection for this topic.
Irrelevant data? I do not unlimited patience for entertaining your TROLLING.
This thread is CLOSED.
No journalist is reliable in my view. Not a single one of them.
- Status
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
-
-
Argentina Considering To Purchase 12 JF17C Worth 664Million Dollars
- Latest: FourMikeEcho
-
-
Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts
-
Pakistan military officer sues Adil Raja for defamation in unprecedented UK action- Latest: muhammadhafeezmalik
-
