Revenge by Pakistani Pashtuns: Private war breaks out on Pak-Afghan border

[Armstrong]

@haviZsultan : Tell me more about your family that moved from India (post the Partition & there about) !

How do Indian Muslims see the rest of us ?

Do they think that they were better off staying there & us worse off or vice versa ?

Why did your Dad choose to move so late to Pakistan ?

*I'm sorry if its of a personal nature & I'd very much understand if you'd tell me to foOk off but curiosity gets the better of me*

 

[haviZsultan]

@haviZsultan, dude your research is pretty good, and your writing style shows promise. Though, at times, you do digress and your focus is all over the place. Try to keep information concise, with catchy punchlines.

I'd recommend you any day to @WebMaster for a Jr. Think Tank title. We definitely need people who understand the Pashtun 'mindset', and can advocate their viewpoints in the National context, of-course, without prejudice.

By the way, whoever I am, we're pretty much a very secretive bunch, and we like to keep it that way. My apologies, as it's my habit to write short replies.

Furthermore, I am pretty impressed with @Secur's analytical abilities!

No man... i don't want Jr think tank i will earn it if I have to later on with quality of posts rather than back-channels, also it limits my ability to make posts like that. I want an interview actually... but u said u don't wanna share personal information. I know... i start on one topic end on another... so they say!

My real wish was an interview to confirm some things and it can only come from someone from Waziristan. If you agree your name will be mentioned in the acknowledgements section... or I could just say Hyperion too which may look weird but okay too I guess. If the book becomes famous you become a big name and can say that to your employer that you were considered an authority on Waziristan so a famous author contacted you. Its ur choice. I just need to ask very basic questions, mostly confirming things other Wazirs/Maseeds/Burkis have told me. Most have denied though... i must admit.

Yeah... you and Secur should be on the think tank.

 

[Hyperion]

Mate, I have no employer, never worked a day for anyone. I make all the moolah on the basis of anonymity, and staying under the radar!

No man... i don't want Jr think tank i will earn it if I have to later on with quality of posts rather than back-channels, also it limits my ability to make posts like that. I want an interview actually... but u said u don't wanna share personal information. I know... i start on one topic end on another... so they say!

My real wish was an interview to confirm some things and it can only come from someone from Waziristan. If you agree your name will be mentioned in the acknowledgements section... or I could just say Hyperion too which may look weird but okay too I guess. If the book becomes famous you become a big name and can say that to your employer that you were considered an authority on Waziristan so a famous author contacted you. Its ur choice. I just need to ask very basic questions, mostly confirming things other Wazirs/Maseeds/Burkis have told me. Most have denied though... i must admit.

Yeah... you and Secur should be on the think tank.

 

[haviZsultan]

@haviZsultan : Tell me more about your family that moved from India (post the Partition & there about) !

How do Indian Muslims see the rest of us ?

Do they think that they were better off staying there & us worse off or vice versa ?

Why did your Dad choose to move so late to Pakistan ?

*I'm sorry if its of a personal nature & I'd very much understand if you'd tell me to foOk off but curiosity gets the better of me*

We are Ansaris from my mothers side... my fathers side... is kind of... no proper history or obscure history... some stuff about tracing lineage from Ali... but I think all of this has become quite a fun thing. But the Ansari lineage has been traced to the last ancestor Abu Ayub Ansari. Our family name is iranian from our fathers side. But I will not comment too much on my fathers side as its too personal.

Actually you might be surprised to know that most families did not move by 1947... no one knew what would happen for a long time and which province would go to which nation (India or Pakistan)... most came in the next years. There was constant trickle of migrants in later years... forget how we got there. Ayub Khan had closed the borders some say on account of worsening relations with India... but all migrants couldn't move because of that. Even in 2001 there was a protest on the border with muslim families wanting to be given permission to come into Pakistan.

Both my parents ancestral area (in recent few hundred years-before that are claims of arab heritage which ansaris can prove but fathers side can't) is Barabanki, Lucknow, bareygaon (all in UP)... but no people stay in exactly one place so a lot also have spread to Delhi, Agra, Hyderabad and Bihar.

I hate to disappoint you but most Indian muslims integrated... they are Indian especially the youngest generations... talk with my mamoo however reveals that until the 1980's they were supportive of Pakistan... but things have gradually changed. We closed the borders to them anyway even though a lot of people who come are from very rich or educated backgrounds. Their kids dislike Pakistan and hold as negative views as any other-Hindus or whoever. BUT, that is the general situation and Secur will confirm. But yes... in Hyderabad there was a little trouble. After Gujarat riots there were riots all across India which the government is not being too truthful about and we want that toll included in toll of Gujarat riots... but government statistics are extremely biased and lower the number even in gujarat and don't count its after-effects and riots it caused.

There were riots in lucknow too from what I hear but in Hyderabad they were very bad. All these were much smaller scale than Gujarat though. Much fewer people killed... but in Hyderabad it was worst cause its 40% muslim and 60% Hindu. Sana baji was killed because of some RSS terrorist in college. Some issues after that... we go to file a report and they ... I was in lucknow around that time... or close. But it was a big issue and shock there.

I also have contact with Azad Deccan movement which is started mostly by people who lost loved ones in hate related incidents. I identity strongly with them too because of links... but these links not as solid. Father has some Hyderabadi links... but when i came all these guys are very distant relatives. Like my 3rd or 4th cousins and stuff.

Also for the jama masjid blasts they took one guy and tortured him very badly, think he died only to find out attack was the handiwork of RSS and gang. So there is something in Hyderabad I will say because then we moved people too after all this but I can't say for all of them that they have anti-India views. I know some anti-Indian cousins and uncles in Hyderabad. When a wrong takes place its natural reaction... plus its not just about few people killed. Its about justice. Police jailed relatives and told them to keep shut on the Afzalganj/Azampura cases. Then they take the case to courts and they say go to Pakistan... some of them did exactly that. its intrinsic bias in the system but what can we complain when we have the same thing here.

But note: these people moved and despite losing close relatives (like brothers , sisters for my aunts and cousins for my cousins) they fell into the same routine... everyone else was supporting MQM... they did too and are also fast-becoming haters of other ethnic groups.

The thing was Ayub khan for no reason closed the border before everyone had moved. I still have to understand the sense of it. A lot more of us would have moved otherwise. Some people were just waiting in Lucknow, they supported Pakistan from the beginning. They were waiting for members of family to go there and settle, then call them there. But it took time for us to build things. My fathers family was actually very poor or we could have accommodated people. My maternal grandfather was so fond of Pakistan So they got stuck in Indian occupied Lucknow for like ever (It is occupied-it belonged to Pakistan on Chaudhry ahmed ali's map-we were supposed to get it)

I was going to answer your post about so-called Muhajirs right to maintain their so-called culture but the thread was closed... but Luffy was right. It was basically deviating from its purpose.

I will be precise about the question you asked, that if I respect all cultures and languages in Pakistan and want to promote them because that is what makes Pakistan rich then why do I not respect my pathetic so-called "muhajirs". Will host a thread tommorow-split discussion about Muhajir identity. Will tag you there as you have interest in the selected topic. Will also tag Secur in the discussion as it would be an honor having him there.

Okay... moved half the post which was a reply to you at Baithak. Will tag you and secur.

 

[Armstrong]

@haviZsultan : Hmmmn ! Sounds like what my family friends (Biharis & Bijanuris) think off & what their family thinks.

But my family members from Jammu & Kashmir are die-hard Pakistani supporters with some of them coming to Pakistan & settling here throughout the past 60 years, others moving to Ireland & Germany of all places (God knows why that choice) & yet a few dozen who choose to stay behind.

There are 2-3 families who are Pro-Independence but no Pro-India guy as far as I know ! Dunno why they didn't integrate though ! Perhaps because some lost loved ones as far fresh as the mid '90s whereas others just couldn't give up 'Kashmir banega Pakistan' thing that their forefathers talked about.

 

[haviZsultan]

@haviZsultan : Hmmmn ! Sounds like what my family friends (Biharis & Bijanuris) think off & what their family thinks.

But my family members from Jammu & Kashmir are die-hard Pakistani supporters with some of them coming to Pakistan & settling here throughout the past 60 years, others moving to Ireland & Germany of all places (God knows why that choice) & yet a few dozen who choose to stay behind.

There are 2-3 families who are Pro-Independence but no Pro-India guy as far as I know ! Dunno why they didn't integrate though ! Perhaps because some lost loved ones as far fresh as the mid '90s whereas others just couldn't give up 'Kashmir banega Pakistan' thing that their forefathers talked about.

I think I confused you with the post since I am usually not too articulate in my writing when I write quickly. There are some family members in Pakistan.

Then some in what is now India... I should have been specific. No one in Pakistan is Anti-Pakistani though they somehow try to find amazing ways to defend Altaf's speech DESPITE those things I told you about.

But they believe the MQM theory... they are oppressed, they are victimized, they had a larger role in making Pakistan which is just self-glorification... lots of other stupid ideas and versions of history imported from the MQM which honestly I believe is very much like Luffy's ways... its a twisted version of history that is being taught. I have posted a reply to your old question. I hope it will explain things perfectly, particularly my views about the fake muhajir identity.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

We are Ansaris from my mothers side... my fathers side... is kind of... no proper history or obscure history... some stuff about tracing lineage from Ali... but I think all of this has become quite a fun thing. But the Ansari lineage has been traced to the last ancestor Abu Ayub Ansari. Our family name is iranian from our fathers side. But I will not comment too much on my fathers side as its too personal.

Havi you are very knowlegible, tell us in detail about this ashraf-ajlaf division among indian muslims, wikipedia says,
Some of the backward or lower-caste Muslim caste include Ansari, Kunjra, Dhobi and Halalkhor. The upper caste Muslim caste include Syed, Pathan, Turk, Sheikh and Mallik.[14] Genetic data has also supported this stratification
Caste system among South Asian Muslims - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

The thing was Ayub khan for no reason closed the border before everyone had moved. I still have to understand the sense of it. A lot more of us would have moved otherwise. Some people were just waiting in Lucknow, they supported Pakistan from the beginning. They were waiting for members of family to go there and settle, then call them there. But it took time for us to build things. My fathers family was actually very poor or we could have accommodated people. My maternal grandfather was so fond of Pakistan So they got stuck in Indian occupied Lucknow for like ever (It is occupied-it belonged to Pakistan on Chaudhry ahmed ali's map-we were supposed to get it)

I hope you are not serious, dont want to offend any one but chaudry rehmat ali proposed map was quite childish and more of a fantasy, There was a reason why smart man like Jinnah ignored him,

 

[Armstrong]

I hope you are not serious, dont want to offend any one but chaudry rehmat ali proposed map was quite childish and more of a fantasy, There was a reason why smart man like Jinnah ignored him,

Oye isss meiinn Butt-istan kidhar haiii ?

 

[haviZsultan]

Havi you are very knowlegible, tell us in detail about this ashraf-ajlaf division among indian muslims, wikipedia says,
Some of the backward or lower-caste Muslim caste include Ansari, Kunjra, Dhobi and Halalkhor. The upper caste Muslim caste include Syed, Pathan, Turk, Sheikh and Mallik.[14] Genetic data has also supported this stratification
Caste system among South Asian Muslims - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It seems like an RSS attempt to shove their communities issues on to the Muslims. Frankly I have never even heard of this. Also my father is not from any of the castes mentioned but from one that is influential in Iran. Why did he then marry this low caste ansari?... in fact how is it a tradition in the entire family of my father to marry only ansaris?

Luffy, totally being serious I criticize our family when I see something wrong and have been doing it 24/7 for their biases against ethnic groups in Pakistan... in the past I have strongly felt it was like a god-given duty to defend all ansaris or my fathers family (which I will not share as it becomes traceable and a bit too personal) but now I am noticing its just making my own position tenuous. That is why you would have seen me defending Muslims in India... but I am trying to disengage from that as it weakens my ability to merge into Pashtuns... people just think why he needs to maintain links with them even if some of them are Pro-Pakistan it is hard to understand.

Lots of other issues play a role too like muslims there gradually integrating. But thats another thing.

 

[Pukhtoon]

Pashtuns Tajiks Uzbeks Hazaras are all Afghan! ANA's whole structure is Afghanised not Pashtunised, Tajikised, Hazarised or etc.. your ***** will not inflame Afghans from within again, watch your back for daily separatist movements Pakistan will soon be liberated from Punjabi dominated government.

Gift for you:

Hazara boy: Hazara, Awghu(Pashtun), Tajik, Uzbek all are brothers

@ topic:

Afghanistan condemn torture of Pakistani nationals

Afghan foreign ministry strongly condemned torture of Pakistani nationals by Afghan security forces.

Foreign ministry spokesman Janan Mosazai said Afghan govermnent has launched probe in this regard and the insisted that the government is committed for the security of Pakistani citizens in Afghanistan.

He also said that the Afghan Charge D’Affaires has met with the Pakistani officials in this regard.

Pakistani security officials on Saturday sealed the Torkham border between Pakistan and Afghanistan, in response to the torture on Pakistani labourers by Afghan security personnel.

A Foreign Office spokesman said that Pakistan has taken serious note of Afghan soldiers’ beating up of the Pakistanis despite their having valid travel documents and summoned the Afghan Charge d’ Affaires to foreign ministry in the morning and lodged a strong protest, seeking an investigation into the incident and action against those responsible.

A similar protest was lodged by the Pakistan Ambassador in Kabul with the Afghan government.

The labourers told that they had travelled to Afghanistan for work but the company concerned refused to pay their wages. They added they had also been locked up in Afghanistan’s Pul-i-Charkhi prison where they were tortured by jail authorities. And when they were returning, Afghan forces allegedly tore their Pakistani passports, snatched their money and beat up them brutally.

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Today's news only proves that ANSF was right in torturing those Pakistanis when those Pakistanis have armed men on the other side of border! this only means those tortured Pakistanis were not innocent.

And LOL @ their type of revenge looting innocent passengers? it shows the economical state of the people of Pakistan.



And their puppets in this website!

O Really ?

https://www.facebook.com/Northafg

 

[Sher Malang]

O Really ?

https://www.facebook.com/Northafg

I know the Admin of the page with all his details so keep it with yourself he is not residing in Afghanistan he has serious pain from 90s.

 

[Armstrong]

@Pukhtoon : Rora, kaisaa haiii ?

What does your signature mean ?

What are your views on the topic ?

 

[Pukhtoon]

@Pukhtoon : Rora, kaisaa haiii ?

What does your signature mean ?

What are your views on the topic ?

M Mast. .. U Say ?

My Signature means :

Sta Meena Rekhtiya Wa Che Qurbaan De Da Watana Kra..( Tumhari Muhabbat Suchi thi jo tu ne Qurban kar de is Pak watan se)
Ta Kho A BILORA PukhtunKhwa Tola GhamJana Kra ... RIP (TU ne tu a Bilor poore KPK ko he ghamzada kar dia )

About the topic. Yaar bottom line !

They hate us And in return We Hate them thats faCt.

 

[Armstrong]

M Mast. .. U Say ?

My Signature means :

Sta Meena Rekhtiya Wa Che Qurbaan De Da Watana Kra..( Tumhari Muhabbat Suchi thi jo tu ne Qurban kar de is Pak watan se)
Ta Kho A BILORA PukhtunKhwa Tola GhamJana Kra ... RIP (TU ne tu a Bilor poore KPK ko he ghamzada kar dia )

About the topic. Yaar bottom line !

They hate us And in return We Hate them thats faCt.

I don't like the ANP but I too respect Bilor for being very brave & taking the same risks that the rest of us are exposed to - a people's man ! May he Rest in Peace.

Bhai, don't hate them; Afghani Naan is too good !