Rafale Vs Su-30 MKi

[sancho]

Thats what you think. Why not let the exercise finish before jumping on conclusions ???

That's the point! People draw conclusions based on paperspecs and theoretical scenarios, although nobody knows yet what the operational aim of the excercise will be, what versions of Rafale will be send with what capabilities, let alone if they come with own AWACS support as well, like the RAF EF's did.
The funny thing is also when people conclude BARS to be outdated, while it offers possibly even comparable detection range as the RBE 2 AESA (if it has improved 50% over it's PESA), because of the larger size and with a higher field of view!
Just like superiority of Rafales IRST will be claimed, although the latest Rafales with AESA, don't have an IRST anymore and are limited to MICA IR seeker (up to 30Km) for IRST functions...

What we know is, that IAF will not simply make fighter 1 on 1 comparisions, but aims on train and improve their operational capabilities and tactics. Last time the aim was on protecting strike packages, or high value targets like AWACS and we have to wait and see where the focus this time will be. No matter what, it will be interesting to see the Rafales in India, but I hope that a procurement decision is taken till then too.

 

[PoKeMon]

Mig21 Bison will win.

How can it win, JF-17 will win sitting back in pakistani hangers. It will shoot all Rafales, MKIs from there only.

 

[Gessler]

although the latest Rafales with AESA, don't have an IRST anymore

???

 

[he-man]

That's the point! People draw conclusions based on paperspecs and theoretical scenarios, although nobody knows yet what the operational aim of the excercise will be, what versions of Rafale will be send with what capabilities, let alone if they come with own AWACS support as well, like the RAF EF's did.
The funny thing is also when people conclude BARS to be outdated, while it offers possibly even comparable detection range as the RBE 2 AESA (if it has improved 50% over it's PESA), because of the larger size and with a higher field of view!
Just like superiority of Rafales IRST will be claimed, although the latest Rafales with AESA, don't have an IRST anymore and are limited to MICA IR seeker (up to 30Km) for IRST functions...

What we know is, that IAF will not simply make fighter 1 on 1 comparisions, but aims on train and improve their operational capabilities and tactics. Last time the aim was on protecting strike packages, or high value targets like AWACS and we have to wait and see where the focus this time will be. No matter what, it will be interesting to see the Rafales in India, but I hope that a procurement decision is taken till then too.

U got to be uber biased to compare bars with rbe2 aa aesa.no one can challenge me when I say thats bars dosen't even hold candle to irbis-e,let alone a modern aesa

Radar's function is not just dependant on range alone.

 

[sancho]

???

The IRST is not ordered from the French forces anymore, since it had technical issues and the TV channel proved to be more useful in combination with their tactics and the capabilites of the Rafale. That's why the IRST is offered to export customers as an option now, possibly the production will be diverted to India completely, as part of the ToT/offset requirements of MMRCA. The latest French Rafales however, only use a mock up instead of the IRST:

U got to be uber biased to compare bars with rbe2 aa aesa.

No, I just stick to realities that's the difference!

RBE 2 AESA with 50% improvement (as reported initially) has a detection range of around 150Km for a 3m² target, with a field of view of up to +/- 70°.
The current BARS has a detection range of around 140Km for a 3m² target (official manufacturer specs), with a field of view of up to +/- 100°, thanks to the mechanical plate it uses.

And even if we take the recent reports about up too 100% improved detection range for the RBE 2 AESA to account, it only means that the range in a head on engagement is superior. The more the angle changes, the less the detection range, while the BARS still benefits from full range. The same advantage that the repositioner of the Gripen and EF AESA's would bring.
So having the more modern tech alone doesn't make Rafale superior here, you have to include all points to the comparison, like the repositioner, or the simple size of the radar.


Field of view advantages of...

...Gripens AESA with repositioner:

...EF's AESA with repositioner:

...Su 35's / MKI's PESA with repositioner:

 

[he-man]

The IRST is not ordered from the French forces anymore, since it had technical issues and the TV channel proved to be more useful in combination with their tactics and the capabilites of the Rafale. That's why the IRST is offered to export customers as an option now, possibly the production will be diverted to India completely, as part of the ToT/offset requirements of MMRCA. The latest French Rafales however, only use a mock up instead of the IRST:

No, I just stick to realities that's the difference!

RBE 2 AESA with 50% improvement (as reported initially) has a detection range of around 150Km for a 3m² target, with a field of view of up to +/- 70°.
The current BARS has a detection range of around 140Km for a 3m² target (official manufacturer specs), with a field of view of up to +/- 100°, thanks to the mechanical plate it uses.

And even if we take the recent reports about up too 100% improved detection range for the RBE 2 AESA to account, it only means that the range in a head on engagement is superior. The more the angle changes, the less the detection range, while the BARS still benefits from full range. The same advantage that the repositioner of the Gripen and EF AESA's would bring.
So having the more modern tech alone doesn't make Rafale superior here, you have to include all points to the comparison, like the repositioner, or the simple size of the radar.


Field of view advantages of...

...Gripens AESA with repositioner:

...EF's AESA with repositioner:

...Su 35's / MKI's PESA with repositioner:

Once again everyone knows this.

But u just forgot a small thing.

U are comparing an aesa with a pesa,u got to be really delusional to conclude bars=rbe2 aa or even zhuk ae.

Aesa is superior to pesa in almost all the radar characteristics plus bars is a low powered pesa at that.

Had u compared with irbis e with range of 400 km for 3 m2,i would have understood but bars!

U have shown enough bias,i better don't say anything else.

 

[sancho]

U are comparing an aesa with a pesa...

Had u compared with irbis e with range of 400 km for 3 m2,i would have understood but bars!

Just that the IRBIS E is a PESA as well, so according to your logic it must be inferior to Rafales AESA as well.

i better don't say anything else.

 

[he-man]

Just that the IRBIS E is a PESA as well, so according to your logic it must be inferior to Rafales AESA as well.

Indeed it is.

For jamming,ecm and lpi modes it is.

If u don't even agree to that then well,god help u and ur superior logic.

 

[thesolar65]

Why don't we all sit back and wait for June 2-6 2014, before engaging in shadow boxing? Tab doodh ka doodh aur pani ka pani ho jayega!!

 

[he-man]

Why don't we all sit back and wait for June 2-6 2014, before engaging in shadow boxing? Tab doodh ka doodh aur pani ka pani ho jayega!!

Haan yaar

 

[sancho]

Indeed it is.

For jamming,ecm and lpi modes it is.

If u don't even agree to that then well,god help u and ur superior logic.

Who said that I disagree to that? I never said that AESA or the RBE 2 wouldn't have advantages, I just disagree to your faulty logic that on the on side makes BARS completely outdated because it is a PESA, while you see IRBIS-E as equal although it is a PESA too. You are concluding things based on theories, without trying to understand what that actually means in real terms. What does the lack of LPI mode for example change for the IRBIS E? Nothing! Because, the enemy fighter would need to be able to detect signals of the IRBIS-E from more than 300Km distance to have an advantage.
So AESA surely is the better tech in general, but that doesn't mean a small, fixed RBE 2 is automatically superior to BARS or IRBIS-E to all accounts and that's what you are missing, just like you missed a lot in your other conclusions too.

 

[nair]

@sancho any updated on suryakiran? It has been grounded for long

 

[PoKeMon]

mki have to win this game, it will make price cutting negotiations easy for us.

It will make whole deal useless.

 

[surya kiran]

@sancho any updated on suryakiran? It has been grounded for long

Not expected before 2016/7. Hawks delivery for trainers is believed to be completed by then, post which the Hawks will be assigned to Suryakiran 52 squadron.

IAF to buy for 20 more Hawk AJTs for aerobatics - Indian Express

 

[sancho]

@sancho any updated on suryakiran? It has been grounded for long

Don't know, last I heared was that IAF wants to order 20 more Hawks for them, but don't know when they will be delivered. I guess the training of IAF and IN will have prioirity.