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Qandeel Baloch is dead

Show me a reference from Pre-Islamic era where someone in Indian subcontinent was killed for honor.

Do you know Honor killings are carried out in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Yemen, Lebanon, Egypt, Sudan, the Gaza strip and the West Bank (Palestine), Jordan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Nigeria, Somalia, Turkey, Iran

Now try to identify what is common in all these countries.

Killed for honor? Women were not honored at all in the sub continent before that. Women were and still are killed just after birth because they are thought of being a burden. A few decades ago they were burned along with their dead husband. This all points to something way worse than honor killing. Dont try to bring your bigotry against a religion here making this something that was introduced by muslims. Honor killing is still prevalent in India in the non muslim community.

http://www.breitbart.com/national-s...lyweds-for-marrying-without-parental-consent/

http://hbv-awareness.com/regions/

HONOR KILLING BY REGION

South & Central Asia

India and Pakistan both have recorded rates of ‘honour’ killings of around 1000 per year, although as ever figures remain unreliable. The levels of such crimes are less known in Bangladesh, but there have been cases in diasporic Bangladeshi communities so there is a potential risk there.

In both India and Pakistan, the informal court systems present problems to women. Where the central criminal justice system is weak or unaffordable to people living in rural communities, tribal jirga or caste panchayat may order HBV in cases of intra-familial disputes. Such informal legal systems may demand the deaths of women, or in some cases compensation marriages where young girls and women are forced to marry to restore equilibrium in family disputes. It was one such jirga that ordered the notorious gang-rape of Mukhtaran Mai.

Particular issues in Hindu communities are caste and gotra (patriline). Marriage opportunitess are very restricted and there may be particularly fierce opposition to any contact between a woman and a male of lower caste; it is often the case that it is the man who is the primary victim of violence by the family of the woman he has approached. While it may be required that any partnerships do not lose caste, marriages within a gotra are condemned as incestuous, despite their rarely being any close consanguinueity between any members of the same gotra. Panchayats have actively policed gotra restrictions and called for the deaths of couples who have contravened such norms.

While in both India and Pakistan there have been a great deal of discussion around ‘honour’ killings, India has taken more assertive legal action, including awarding the death penalty to large numbers of persons who have colluded in murder. In Pakistan, there is more of a culture of impunity and while police reports may be filed, there is often little follow-up, particularly in rural areas.

In Afghanistan, ‘honour’ crimes remain very high along with many other forms of violence against women, and are increasing as attitudes fail to keep pace with economic and social changes. Economic immiseration has also led to high levels of early marriage. Finding safety is difficult as women fleeing their husbands or families may be imprisoned and returned to them and there is, again, a culture of impunity even more profound than that which exists in Pakistan.



Middle East & North Africa

The Middle East, including the Arab countries of North Africa, Iran and non-Arab minorities within Arabic countries have high recorded level of HBV, and it is these regions that the formal law codes are most likely to allocate reduced sentences for crimes motivated by ‘honour.’

With the exception of Iran, laws which allow for ‘honour’ killing are not derived from Islamic precepts, but from the penal codes of the Napoleonic Empire which legislated for crimes of ‘passion.’ Such laws have come under sustained opposition from women’s rights activists leading to some reforms: the Kurdistan Region of Iraq removed the provision for lighter sentencing for killers with ‘honourable’ motives in 2002 – although it remains in force in the rest of Iraq; Syria has recently increased the minimum sentence for an ‘honour’ killer from one year to two; and Palestine has recently removed the provision which it inherited from Jordanian law in the face of a particularly gruesome high-profile murder. However, such changes have limited applicability where these are not followed through by the criminal justice system, which may still tend to overlook murders and excuse their perpetrators. The availability of reduced sentencing causes murders which had financial or other motives to be represented as related to ‘honour’ so that the perpetrators of unrelated crimes can benefit from the reduced sentencing applied to ‘honour’.

The project for legal changes is a necessary precursor to the decline of HBV in the Middle Eastern region and needs to be bolstered by the provision of protection measures and an end to the culture of impunity. Changing mentalities has been difficult: while Turkey appeared to be taking the strongest steps to combat HBV, including education and protection programmes, and there are many committed activists and NGOs in the country, levels remain high, and are apparently increasing.


Europe and other Western Countries

Certain Eastern European countries have recorded cases of HBV within the indigenous populations, such as Albania and Chechnya, and there have been acts of ‘honour’ killings within living memory within Mediterranean countries such as Italy and Greece. There is limited data on the current extent of HBV in Eastern Europe and former Soviet countries; however some cases of forced marriage have been recorded in Eastern European communities living in the West.

In most of Western and Northern Europe, HBV is almost entirely associated with immigrant populations where such acts are seen as the survival of tribal and patriarchal values from their countries of origin, although these may be excaserbated by the experiences of translocation and social exclusion.

Many Northern European and Scandinavian countries have developed strategies for the protection of potential victims, and there are a growing number of NGOs dedicated to providing advice and counselling to women at risk of violence and forced marriage. However, there are still disparities in procedure and practice, and different approaches from region to region. According to some recent research from Germany, HBV is more prevalent in first-generation immigrant populations, suggesting that greater integration of minority communities is an important step to reducing violence in the family.

Honour killings have also been recorded in North America, Canada, and Australia within immigrant populations. In these regions, there appears to be a less organised response to HBV as a more recent phenomenon which is in the early stages of recognition.
 
I never heard of her. Irrespective, I hope she rests in peace. Nobody deserves this!
 
Killed for honor? Women were not honored at all in the sub continent before that. Women were and still are killed just after birth because they are thought of being a burden. A few decades ago they were burned along with their dead husband. This all points to something way worse than honor killing. Dont try to bring your bigotry against a religion here making this something that was introduced by muslims. Honor killing is still prevalent in India in the non muslim community.

http://www.breitbart.com/national-s...lyweds-for-marrying-without-parental-consent/

http://hbv-awareness.com/regions/

HONOR KILLING BY REGION

South & Central Asia

India and Pakistan both have recorded rates of ‘honour’ killings of around 1000 per year, although as ever figures remain unreliable. The levels of such crimes are less known in Bangladesh, but there have been cases in diasporic Bangladeshi communities so there is a potential risk there.

In both India and Pakistan, the informal court systems present problems to women. Where the central criminal justice system is weak or unaffordable to people living in rural communities, tribal jirga or caste panchayat may order HBV in cases of intra-familial disputes. Such informal legal systems may demand the deaths of women, or in some cases compensation marriages where young girls and women are forced to marry to restore equilibrium in family disputes. It was one such jirga that ordered the notorious gang-rape of Mukhtaran Mai.

Particular issues in Hindu communities are caste and gotra (patriline). Marriage opportunitess are very restricted and there may be particularly fierce opposition to any contact between a woman and a male of lower caste; it is often the case that it is the man who is the primary victim of violence by the family of the woman he has approached. While it may be required that any partnerships do not lose caste, marriages within a gotra are condemned as incestuous, despite their rarely being any close consanguinueity between any members of the same gotra. Panchayats have actively policed gotra restrictions and called for the deaths of couples who have contravened such norms.

While in both India and Pakistan there have been a great deal of discussion around ‘honour’ killings, India has taken more assertive legal action, including awarding the death penalty to large numbers of persons who have colluded in murder. In Pakistan, there is more of a culture of impunity and while police reports may be filed, there is often little follow-up, particularly in rural areas.

In Afghanistan, ‘honour’ crimes remain very high along with many other forms of violence against women, and are increasing as attitudes fail to keep pace with economic and social changes. Economic immiseration has also led to high levels of early marriage. Finding safety is difficult as women fleeing their husbands or families may be imprisoned and returned to them and there is, again, a culture of impunity even more profound than that which exists in Pakistan.



Middle East & North Africa

The Middle East, including the Arab countries of North Africa, Iran and non-Arab minorities within Arabic countries have high recorded level of HBV, and it is these regions that the formal law codes are most likely to allocate reduced sentences for crimes motivated by ‘honour.’

With the exception of Iran, laws which allow for ‘honour’ killing are not derived from Islamic precepts, but from the penal codes of the Napoleonic Empire which legislated for crimes of ‘passion.’ Such laws have come under sustained opposition from women’s rights activists leading to some reforms: the Kurdistan Region of Iraq removed the provision for lighter sentencing for killers with ‘honourable’ motives in 2002 – although it remains in force in the rest of Iraq; Syria has recently increased the minimum sentence for an ‘honour’ killer from one year to two; and Palestine has recently removed the provision which it inherited from Jordanian law in the face of a particularly gruesome high-profile murder. However, such changes have limited applicability where these are not followed through by the criminal justice system, which may still tend to overlook murders and excuse their perpetrators. The availability of reduced sentencing causes murders which had financial or other motives to be represented as related to ‘honour’ so that the perpetrators of unrelated crimes can benefit from the reduced sentencing applied to ‘honour’.

The project for legal changes is a necessary precursor to the decline of HBV in the Middle Eastern region and needs to be bolstered by the provision of protection measures and an end to the culture of impunity. Changing mentalities has been difficult: while Turkey appeared to be taking the strongest steps to combat HBV, including education and protection programmes, and there are many committed activists and NGOs in the country, levels remain high, and are apparently increasing.


Europe and other Western Countries

Certain Eastern European countries have recorded cases of HBV within the indigenous populations, such as Albania and Chechnya, and there have been acts of ‘honour’ killings within living memory within Mediterranean countries such as Italy and Greece. There is limited data on the current extent of HBV in Eastern Europe and former Soviet countries; however some cases of forced marriage have been recorded in Eastern European communities living in the West.

In most of Western and Northern Europe, HBV is almost entirely associated with immigrant populations where such acts are seen as the survival of tribal and patriarchal values from their countries of origin, although these may be excaserbated by the experiences of translocation and social exclusion.

Many Northern European and Scandinavian countries have developed strategies for the protection of potential victims, and there are a growing number of NGOs dedicated to providing advice and counselling to women at risk of violence and forced marriage. However, there are still disparities in procedure and practice, and different approaches from region to region. According to some recent research from Germany, HBV is more prevalent in first-generation immigrant populations, suggesting that greater integration of minority communities is an important step to reducing violence in the family.

Honour killings have also been recorded in North America, Canada, and Australia within immigrant populations. In these regions, there appears to be a less organised response to HBV as a more recent phenomenon which is in the early stages of recognition.

My point was that the concept of Honor Killing was import from Middle East to South Asia. It is not native to South Asia.
 
Very sad incident. The brother killed the sister over honor and he's gonna get caught and pay the price but we all know the issue isn't that of an individual or a single case but overall it's our society which makes people act so irrational.

We are all guys here. Let's put ourselve in Qandeels brother position for a minute. Qandeel came from a conservative and middle class house hold. That life wasn't for her so she choose a different and an independent path for herself, and that was good for her.

But now think about the brother. He still lives that conservative lifestyle and the middle class mohala. Can you imagine how much he must have been taunted and humiliated by the guys everyday?

Guys that would call him a shameful coward and a pimp at the same time? Guys that would tell him to shut her down and tell him to set them up with Qandeel for one night at the same time? Now imagine that torment day in and day out. Imagine thinking twice before stepping out the house because who he may run into.

Her brother will get caught, they'll hang him, justice served right? No, in my opinion the culprits are the people, the society that mentally tortured him into killing his sister.
 
Uh huh...

Didn't you hindus used to burn your daughters because of 'Muslim Invaders'? Didn't Sikhs kill their women during Partition?

If you are saying that has nothing to do with honor killing, then you are daft my son.



Honor killings are prevalent in feudal societies, and have very little to do with religion.



Don't be an asshole. She could have changed her ways, If people like you were trying to offer guidance instead of insulting and berating.

Again I ask to show me a reference to honor killing in the pre-Islamic era in Indian subcontinent.
 
It is not that hard to google, is it? The source is weak. Some argue on the historical point and some points to certain sect of propaganda. The bottom line is he repented later which shows honor killing is not acceptable in any form in the society.

On one occasion, a few companions saw Umar ibn al-Khattab (Allah be pleased with him) laughing and then crying; one after the other. They asked what reason made him laugh then cry. He said, “I remember that in the days of Jahiliyyah, I used to have this idol made of dates. One day, I became so hungry that I ate it. And then, I cried when I remembered digging a hole and burying my daughter alive. While I was putting her in, she reached up and brushed dirt from my beard.”

http://www.authentictauheed.com/2011/07/139-muslim-mumin-and-uhsin.html
no actually i was asking for the reference because i also heard it from somewhere, but it was longer and Hazrat Umar (R.A) was not mentioned in it, so to confirm i read a book on Hazrat Umar (R.A) by Allamma Shibli Nomani, this event was also not mentioned there.
thats why i asked.
No confusion on the conclusion of the event though.
 
Maybe you should have set a standard for your sister?

That is true, i should have but than again i am like your typical average Pakistani Guy. I had very different set of standards for my sister than myself.

The funny thing is, most of the people who are justifying Qandeel's murder have always followed her on Facebook and Twitter. They have no qualms over looking at her pictures and wet dreaming about her. Tragic
 
What an honorable act from her brother! He has truly brought honor to his family, society and country.
 
Its sad!! REST IN PEACE!!
honour of Pakistani men restored!!
 
@Zarvan

I'll answer you directly as if we were alone because I trust your sincerity.

You said : "If the government will not do its duty of stopping Haram ..."

The definition of what is Haram or Halal belongs to God.
The implementation of Halal over Haram belongs to the individual.
A murder or riot is akin to a third party interrupting their conversation.
Personally, I don't consider myself good enough to do that.*
Yet I'd still trust my judgement over that of any government.

You're very right that governments should push for Halal but
it remains the job of each person to follow that path.
That is why we have souls.

All the best to you and yours, Tay.

* “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts.”
Bertrand Russell
 
Killed for honor? Women were not honored at all in the sub continent before that. Women were and still are killed just after birth because they are thought of being a burden. A few decades ago they were burned along with their dead husband. This all points to something way worse than honor killing. Dont try to bring your bigotry against a religion here making this something that was introduced by muslims. Honor killing is still prevalent in India in the non muslim community.

http://www.breitbart.com/national-s...lyweds-for-marrying-without-parental-consent/

http://hbv-awareness.com/regions/

HONOR KILLING BY REGION

South & Central Asia

India and Pakistan both have recorded rates of ‘honour’ killings of around 1000 per year, although as ever figures remain unreliable. The levels of such crimes are less known in Bangladesh, but there have been cases in diasporic Bangladeshi communities so there is a potential risk there.

In both India and Pakistan, the informal court systems present problems to women. Where the central criminal justice system is weak or unaffordable to people living in rural communities, tribal jirga or caste panchayat may order HBV in cases of intra-familial disputes. Such informal legal systems may demand the deaths of women, or in some cases compensation marriages where young girls and women are forced to marry to restore equilibrium in family disputes. It was one such jirga that ordered the notorious gang-rape of Mukhtaran Mai.

Particular issues in Hindu communities are caste and gotra (patriline). Marriage opportunitess are very restricted and there may be particularly fierce opposition to any contact between a woman and a male of lower caste; it is often the case that it is the man who is the primary victim of violence by the family of the woman he has approached. While it may be required that any partnerships do not lose caste, marriages within a gotra are condemned as incestuous, despite their rarely being any close consanguinueity between any members of the same gotra. Panchayats have actively policed gotra restrictions and called for the deaths of couples who have contravened such norms.

While in both India and Pakistan there have been a great deal of discussion around ‘honour’ killings, India has taken more assertive legal action, including awarding the death penalty to large numbers of persons who have colluded in murder. In Pakistan, there is more of a culture of impunity and while police reports may be filed, there is often little follow-up, particularly in rural areas.

In Afghanistan, ‘honour’ crimes remain very high along with many other forms of violence against women, and are increasing as attitudes fail to keep pace with economic and social changes. Economic immiseration has also led to high levels of early marriage. Finding safety is difficult as women fleeing their husbands or families may be imprisoned and returned to them and there is, again, a culture of impunity even more profound than that which exists in Pakistan.



Middle East & North Africa

The Middle East, including the Arab countries of North Africa, Iran and non-Arab minorities within Arabic countries have high recorded level of HBV, and it is these regions that the formal law codes are most likely to allocate reduced sentences for crimes motivated by ‘honour.’

With the exception of Iran, laws which allow for ‘honour’ killing are not derived from Islamic precepts, but from the penal codes of the Napoleonic Empire which legislated for crimes of ‘passion.’ Such laws have come under sustained opposition from women’s rights activists leading to some reforms: the Kurdistan Region of Iraq removed the provision for lighter sentencing for killers with ‘honourable’ motives in 2002 – although it remains in force in the rest of Iraq; Syria has recently increased the minimum sentence for an ‘honour’ killer from one year to two; and Palestine has recently removed the provision which it inherited from Jordanian law in the face of a particularly gruesome high-profile murder. However, such changes have limited applicability where these are not followed through by the criminal justice system, which may still tend to overlook murders and excuse their perpetrators. The availability of reduced sentencing causes murders which had financial or other motives to be represented as related to ‘honour’ so that the perpetrators of unrelated crimes can benefit from the reduced sentencing applied to ‘honour’.

The project for legal changes is a necessary precursor to the decline of HBV in the Middle Eastern region and needs to be bolstered by the provision of protection measures and an end to the culture of impunity. Changing mentalities has been difficult: while Turkey appeared to be taking the strongest steps to combat HBV, including education and protection programmes, and there are many committed activists and NGOs in the country, levels remain high, and are apparently increasing.


Europe and other Western Countries

Certain Eastern European countries have recorded cases of HBV within the indigenous populations, such as Albania and Chechnya, and there have been acts of ‘honour’ killings within living memory within Mediterranean countries such as Italy and Greece. There is limited data on the current extent of HBV in Eastern Europe and former Soviet countries; however some cases of forced marriage have been recorded in Eastern European communities living in the West.

In most of Western and Northern Europe, HBV is almost entirely associated with immigrant populations where such acts are seen as the survival of tribal and patriarchal values from their countries of origin, although these may be excaserbated by the experiences of translocation and social exclusion.

Many Northern European and Scandinavian countries have developed strategies for the protection of potential victims, and there are a growing number of NGOs dedicated to providing advice and counselling to women at risk of violence and forced marriage. However, there are still disparities in procedure and practice, and different approaches from region to region. According to some recent research from Germany, HBV is more prevalent in first-generation immigrant populations, suggesting that greater integration of minority communities is an important step to reducing violence in the family.

Honour killings have also been recorded in North America, Canada, and Australia within immigrant populations. In these regions, there appears to be a less organised response to HBV as a more recent phenomenon which is in the early stages of recognition.
Lets see it as the problem and not justification which a lot of members are doing.
 

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