Protests against army in peshawar

[Sayfullah]

The only reason Pakistan is being targeted and there are efforts to dismantle Pakistan and the nukes are the NUKES. That is not only honesty, but its the political reality which thrives currently today in international circles.

I agree with this

When has Pakistan Army not been in war circumstances (announced/un announced) against Indians ?

I also agree with this.
But it begs the question, why did our dear army chief ask for “100 years of peace” or “bury the past”? Why didn’t we respond when Indians launched a brahmos at us? When was the response given when they sent out submarine to our waters at least a dozen time? 70k civilians dead into this proxy war india initiated on us and how have we responded? By arresting and killing the only people fighting for us? Where is our retaliation to the undeclared war india has launched at us on every front? If that wasn’t enough our dear leaders signed ceasefire on loc. And IK has fault in this too cuz he promised trump to dismantle mujahideen network on loc and using our dear army he cracked down on the only people fighting for us. Where was our response when India illegally annexed Kashmir after revoking article 370? You underestimate the potential leverage Pakistan has on india through Indian Muslims. But that leverage won’t ever be utilized because like our war with ttp, we choose to use the wrong narrative to win people over and instead lost more people to their ideologies.
At least at least establishment could have not signed ceasefire in response to Indias illegal annexation of Kashmir. At least give free hand to mujahids willing to fight and die in Kashmir if you guys don’t wanna fight.
Your own words are we’ve always been in declared/un declared war with india, so does it suit us to say statements like “bury the past” when india is doing such misadventures?

Its mere stupidity to ignore that Military Ops only exist in war time. See Ops inside Pakistan, inside IOK, Siachen and LOC.

It’s merely stupidity to call Pakistanis selfish. Don’t you know pak army is made up of Pakistanis too? Are they sons of some foreign soil? And you completely ignored and disrespected the sacrifices of mujahideen for Pakistan. Inside Pakistan these mujahids helped you fight ttp and fought their ideology by labelling them khawarij while you were flirting with secularism. Inside iok these mujahids made it hell for Indians until our dear generals and leaders sold them out or fought them. Whether it’s Nawaz selling out our mujahids, Musharraf cracking down on them, IK dismantling their network or Bajwa treating them as if they were ttp, you guys first send these mujahids to fight for you to gain leverage and use that for your own personal benefits while throwing them under the bus with india. Compare the sacrifices of these mujahids vs soldiers. See who has lost more lives fighting in iok for Pakistan. Unlike soldiers, these guys went there as unknowns to die as unknowns. They weren’t salaried to fight and didn’t receive ranks of their families get compensation. They were always at the service of Islam and Pakistan from Afghanistan to Iran to Waziristan to LOC to Siachen and Iok.
Ok forget these mujahids, this army is the same army which abandoned its own soldiers in kargil and the leadership refused to recognize their presence in kargil and watched them get bombed by Indian fighter jets without any support. Y’all can’t even do anything for your very own who are sent in death trap tin can vigos straight into ambushes. 20 yrs later and we’re still struggling at max inducting mraps and sending our soldiers knowingly to their deaths.

Stop making army leadership into saints. They are not always correct. Stop building a personality cult. Don’t worship them like idols. You’re doing more harm to them by doing so. Army is human stop making them idols. Call them out for their wrong and praise their right. You need to stop blinding following.
What’s the difference between you and someone who blind follows Nawaz, zardari or IK?

The only reason Pakistan is being targeted and there are efforts to dismantle Pakistan and the nukes are the NUKES.

History shows there’s always traitors.
Is army of Pakistan infallible to this? (Not saying they are but not saying they aren’t)

 

[Sayfullah]

The hypocrisy exists in the nation which pays Rs.500 to the cop for breaking a law on the way to offer salah in mosque

Horrible comparison.
That person is still better than someone who doesn’t offer any salah but doesn’t break any laws. That person is still better than the arrogants who think they’re above others and become tyrants. That’s not hypocrisy. Care to explain how it is using Islamic evidence to back up your claim?
Breaking a law and paying a cop is corruption and morally wrong but not enough to make one a hypocrite:
Anas narrated that the Prophet (ﷺ) said:
"Every son of Adam sins, and the best of the sinners are the repentant."
-Jami` at-Tirmidhi 2499

Using sins to equate one as a hypocrite is similar to what khawarij do. Khawarij takfir Pakistani state and army because of sins it commits when sins isn’t something which brings you out the fold of Islam.
Hypocrisy (Munafiq) in Islam means making an outward display of Islam whilst inwardly concealing kufr.

 

[Olympus81]

My extended family who have Gold jewelry and workshops in Tariq Road, Karachi have been one of the highest tax payer in the country. Paying Upwards of Rs 10 crores in tax annually.

Their family are civilians, who wake up late for work, but make sure they do their 10 hours shift. Ofcourse they pray their Fajr prayers.

So tell me, what do people like that feel when they see the establishment doing their circus by bringing crooks back.

This is true for alot of businessmen on Tariq Road. And yea, see the infrastructure on Tariq Road. It has essentially become a slum.

Suffice to say, they’re gradually diversifying to UAE, Oman and other middle east countries and reduce their footprint in Pakistan.

 

[I.R.A]

This guy is really out of touch with reality. Reading his posts earlier was making my blood boil.

Loyalty to your parent organization should never make you blind from seeing and speaking the truth.

An ordinary civilian is more motivated to fight and die for country no matter how powerful the opponent is than our jarnail sahiban who think more about dollar. But still Jarnail sahiban have this divine right somehow to label anyone who is not wearing uniform, a Ghaddar or a less loyal, a suspect, even though that baychara civilian may never leave the country and will die in Pakistan.

 

[Signalian]

What an ignorant statement.

People who have the decision making authority, who decide things behind closed doors, who make dubious deal, who keep things hidden from their nation, who sell sovereignty of their nation for their petty interests, whose fart can take country to a 180 direction …. should and will be held responsible for their actions and not the people of Pakistan who have suffered and are suffering because of all this.

These people you mentioned above in your post, rise from the public, they are not aliens from Mars neither are they born and bred abroad.

Talk about ignorance.

Horrible comparison.
That person is still better than someone who doesn’t offer any salah but doesn’t break any laws. That person is still better than the arrogants who think they’re above others and become tyrants. That’s not hypocrisy. Care to explain how it is using Islamic evidence to back up your claim?
Breaking a law and paying a cop is corruption and morally wrong but not enough to make one a hypocrite:
Anas narrated that the Prophet (ﷺ) said:
"Every son of Adam sins, and the best of the sinners are the repentant."
-Jami` at-Tirmidhi 2499

Using sins to equate one as a hypocrite is similar to what khawarij do. Khawarij takfir Pakistani state and army because of sins it commits when sins isn’t something which brings you out the fold of Islam.
Hypocrisy (Munafiq) in Islam means making an outward display of Islam whilst inwardly concealing kufr.

That person is a hypocrite. You are defending hypocrites so don't even start now.

We dont need the enemy when establishment has enslaved everyone. They are the enemy.

whatever helps you sleep at night.

 

[I.R.A]

These people you mentioned above in your post, rise from the public, they are not aliens from Mars neither are they born and bred abroad.

Talk about ignorance.

If they had risen from the public (the majority in Pakistan that doesn't even have access to decent education) we won't be in the mess that we are in today.

Not only ignorant but disconnected too.

 

[IceCold]

Do you think PDF members who support IK have been to IK jalsas physically and took part in them ?

I am from Lahore and on PDF since 2007 as for your question yes! However I too agree with @Imran Khan, IK never gave a meaning ful call. Every time it was a half-hearted call. Changes don't come like that.

 

[Sayfullah]

That person is a hypocrite. You are defending hypocrites so don't even start now.

I’m not defending hypocrites rather I’m telling you the difference between a munafiq and a sinner. You used a wrong example to describe a hypocrite. I am correcting you on that because you’re spreading misinfo on what a munafiq is with your false analogy. Idc what your argument is with the other poster. Just don’t spread misinfo by giving a false analogy and labelling a sinner as a munafiq.
Do you even know what a hypocrite in Islam is? And do you know the significance of calling someone it and the consequences of falsely accusing someone of being one? In Islam munafiqs (hypocrites) are worse than kaffirs.
Do you know what throws labels around like this without thinking? TTP. Like TTP throws around kaffir and takfirs without thinking and reasoning. Can you justify using Islam that the analogy you gave is akin to the person being a hypocrite? If not then you better start repenting to Allah.

That person is a hypocrite. You are defending hypocrites so don't even start now.

I was waiting for a reply to this:

I agree with this

I also agree with this.
But it begs the question, why did our dear army chief ask for “100 years of peace” or “bury the past”? Why didn’t we respond when Indians launched a brahmos at us? When was the response given when they sent out submarine to our waters at least a dozen time? 70k civilians dead into this proxy war india initiated on us and how have we responded? By arresting and killing the only people fighting for us? Where is our retaliation to the undeclared war india has launched at us on every front? If that wasn’t enough our dear leaders signed ceasefire on loc. And IK has fault in this too cuz he promised trump to dismantle mujahideen network on loc and using our dear army he cracked down on the only people fighting for us. Where was our response when India illegally annexed Kashmir after revoking article 370? You underestimate the potential leverage Pakistan has on india through Indian Muslims. But that leverage won’t ever be utilized because like our war with ttp, we choose to use the wrong narrative to win people over and instead lost more people to their ideologies.
At least at least establishment could have not signed ceasefire in response to Indias illegal annexation of Kashmir. At least give free hand to mujahids willing to fight and die in Kashmir if you guys don’t wanna fight.
Your own words are we’ve always been in declared/un declared war with india, so does it suit us to say statements like “bury the past” when india is doing such misadventures?

It’s merely stupidity to call Pakistanis selfish. Don’t you know pak army is made up of Pakistanis too? Are they sons of some foreign soil? And you completely ignored and disrespected the sacrifices of mujahideen for Pakistan. Inside Pakistan these mujahids helped you fight ttp and fought their ideology by labelling them khawarij while you were flirting with secularism. Inside iok these mujahids made it hell for Indians until our dear generals and leaders sold them out or fought them. Whether it’s Nawaz selling out our mujahids, Musharraf cracking down on them, IK dismantling their network or Bajwa treating them as if they were ttp, you guys first send these mujahids to fight for you to gain leverage and use that for your own personal benefits while throwing them under the bus with india. Compare the sacrifices of these mujahids vs soldiers. See who has lost more lives fighting in iok for Pakistan. Unlike soldiers, these guys went there as unknowns to die as unknowns. They weren’t salaried to fight and didn’t receive ranks of their families get compensation. They were always at the service of Islam and Pakistan from Afghanistan to Iran to Waziristan to LOC to Siachen and Iok.
Ok forget these mujahids, this army is the same army which abandoned its own soldiers in kargil and the leadership refused to recognize their presence in kargil and watched them get bombed by Indian fighter jets without any support. Y’all can’t even do anything for your very own who are sent in death trap tin can vigos straight into ambushes. 20 yrs later and we’re still struggling at max inducting mraps and sending our soldiers knowingly to their deaths.

Stop making army leadership into saints. They are not always correct. Stop building a personality cult. Don’t worship them like idols. You’re doing more harm to them by doing so. Army is human stop making them idols. Call them out for their wrong and praise their right. You need to stop blinding following.
What’s the difference between you and someone who blind follows Nawaz, zardari or IK?


History shows there’s always traitors.
Is army of Pakistan infallible to this? (Not saying they are but not saying they aren’t)

Seems like you ran out of excuses to prove your claim.

 

[S.Y.A]

That person is a hypocrite. You are defending hypocrites so don't even start now.

wtf are you on? a sinner? yes. not a hypocrite. a hypocrite is a person who says he is a muslim but doesnt offer any prayers (that are obligatory) or other obligatory practices, no matter how much "good" in other spheres of life he does. your knowledge of religion is seriously corrupted. but what else can expect from a person defending wrongdoings of army.

That person is a hypocrite. You are defending hypocrites so don't even start now.

btw, speaking of corruption and hypocrisy, where is the record of foreign gifts that arshad shareef demanded?

want to see corruption and hypocrisy? Enjoy:

Air commodore’s treatment of cops sparks social media outrage | The Express Tribune

Two traffic wardens were threatened by armed personnel after ticketing a woman for improper parking

tribune.com.pk

want to see corruption and hypocrisy? Enjoy:

Air commodore’s treatment of cops sparks social media outrage | The Express Tribune

Two traffic wardens were threatened by armed personnel after ticketing a woman for improper parking

tribune.com.pk

 

[Reichmarshal]

Corps commander Quetta house is more lavish and bigger than Corps commander Peshawar house from inside, IMHO. Lahore Corps commander house is awesome too.

Lhr corps commanders house is the property of Quaid e Azam n should have turned into a museum ling time ago

 

[Signalian]

If they had risen from the public (the majority in Pakistan that doesn't even have access to decent education) we won't be in the mess that we are in today.

Not only ignorant but disconnected too.

You need to read backgrounds of businessmen, military officers and politicians. Not every one is privileged like Bilawal or Musharraf. Nawaz Shareef father started as a laborer in a factory. Many COAS's fathers including Ayub Khan were Subedars in Army. Hashwani was a laborer in the factory. These people have risen from the majority. Some of them are migrants and some were local before partition.

You can call me names or abuse me or judge me, I am not bothered since I know the book reading level and knowledge level on this forum is next to negligible of members. You had lost the argument as soon as you started it coz you aren't aware of basics neither have you given any relevant examples.

Go read first, get knowledge and then maybe I will reply you. Don't be a typical Pakistani who passes judgements to insult others in order to argue, instead of utilizing knowledge, information and common sense. Keep your emotions aside, learn to think with a mature head to present sound explanations. I can't do much if I have dented your pride, its your problem to handle your it, not mine. I have heard and read big words coming out of mouths of emotional hot headed Pakistanis, I know those words are just farts in air, they hold no value, don't be like that.

I was waiting for a reply to this:

Seems like you ran out of excuses to prove your claim.

The reply was acknowledging AD systems in inventory that were thought to be rumors then. Indians had set a trap, Pakistan didn't fall in it. They wanted to check preparedness and response time, they got neither. Pakistan had tested those through own systems already.

and remember: I don't give excuses.

wtf are you on? a sinner? yes. not a hypocrite. a hypocrite is a person who says he is a muslim but doesnt offer any prayers (that are obligatory) or other obligatory practices, no matter how much "good" in other spheres of life he does. your knowledge of religion is seriously corrupted. but what else can expect from a person defending wrongdoings of army.


btw, speaking of corruption and hypocrisy, where is the record of foreign gifts that arshad shareef demanded?

want to see corruption and hypocrisy? Enjoy:

Air commodore’s treatment of cops sparks social media outrage | The Express Tribune

Two traffic wardens were threatened by armed personnel after ticketing a woman for improper parking

tribune.com.pk

want to see corruption and hypocrisy? Enjoy:

Air commodore’s treatment of cops sparks social media outrage | The Express Tribune

Two traffic wardens were threatened by armed personnel after ticketing a woman for improper parking

tribune.com.pk

Should I spam this thread with videos of hypocrisy of civil Govt and politicians ? Get a life.

 

[Tipu7]

Should I spam this thread with videos of hypocrisy of civil Govt and politicians ? Get a life.

Multiply it with 10 and you will get the result of "most disciplined institute of Pakistan." (Roughly saying)

The very fabric of corruption, unlawfulness, governmental disorder, economic instability, and diplomatic degradation, is woven by Military itself.
Bajwa and his goons are just few faces of this generation, otherwise its happening since creation of this country.

As its aptly said,
"They [military] use forks, that's why their hands don't get dirty."

 

[I.R.A]

You need to read backgrounds of businessmen, military officers and politicians. Not every one is privileged like Bilawal or Musharraf. Nawaz Shareef father started as a laborer in a factory. Many COAS's fathers including Ayub Khan were Subedars in Army. Hashwani was a laborer in the factory. These people have risen from the majority. Some of them are migrants and some were local before partition.

You can call me names or abuse me or judge me, I am not bothered since I know the book reading level and knowledge level on this forum is next to negligible of members. You had lost the argument as soon as you started it coz you aren't aware of basics neither have you given any relevant examples.

Go read first, get knowledge and then maybe I will reply you. Don't be a typical Pakistani who passes judgements to insult others in order to argue, instead of utilizing knowledge, information and common sense. Keep your emotions aside, learn to think with a mature head to present sound explanations. I can't do much if I have dented your pride, its your problem to handle your it, not mine. I have heard and read big words coming out of mouths of emotional hot headed Pakistanis, I know those words are just farts in air, they hold no value, don't be like that.

I haven't called you any names nor I abused you. Yes I did judge you based on your reluctance to accept a very clear and obvious problem, why? because you have a biased opinion on this, your mind is not ready to accept that people from your parent organization can be stupid, incompetent, liars, idiots and corrupt too.

I didn't know that to understand something that is happening right in front of my eyes, I had to read about it to understand it ... Masha ALLAH logic hy ap ki.

This is not about my pride nor my emotions, this is as simple and plain as this .... Military did interfere in country's politics, Military did violate country's constitution on numerous occasions, military did commit blunders, military did groom, support and install the most incompetent corrupt politicians in this country, military did contribute in destroying all other institutions and military still is looking to hold everything and everyone hostage.

And it has been military that has been judging civilians for their loyalty to the country.

 

[Sayfullah]

The reply was acknowledging AD systems in inventory that were thought to be rumors then. Indians had set a trap, Pakistan didn't fall in it. They wanted to check preparedness and response time, they got neither. Pakistan had tested those through own systems already.

and remember: I don't give excuses.

Out of everything I said you could only justify the Brahmos incident.

and remember: I don't give excuses.

Your posts in other threads prove otherwise.
Even if I believe you’re correct, you don’t give facts either. Even if you did, you selectively choose what you could reply to while ignoring 90% of the facts said by others.

So either way, your justifications fall short.

 

[salarsikander]

well had this attitude been displayed by the Public before, the so-called brown sahibs would have not been able to amass that much power. YAha was Let go of so easily like as if nothing happened, Fatimah Jinnah was tortured to death without any repercussions, this nation deserves such losers leadership be of army of Political