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Pakistan's Shia genocide

but this relation does not come when gujrati muslims genocide comes??? why you no tell us
but this does not come when your shudra's come.
but this does not come when naxals come :no:

Naxals are violent terrorists , so no what you are saying doesn't apply to them. If they don't surrender they are supposed to die.

Shudra's are a sad story true, but their condition is improving in India and violence against them is gradually reducing unlike what we see in Pakistan against Shias. Btw, we don't bomb them in hundreds every year.

Gujarat , well it was an unfortunate incident , but it happened in a few months of the year 2002. It hasn't happened since unlike the genocide of shias in Pakistan which is a continuing feature year on year in all of Pakistan.
 
What does secular means? Minorities has the right to follow their religion? So it's same in Pakistan, even under zia (He actually had the power to do what ever he want, but he bring peace between all sects) and also in Shariah all non muslims are allowed to follow their religion ".....For you your religion, for me mine..." So with your logic is useless.. secondly. Shia are not minorities but muslims.. like all other sects. So again baseless analogy ...

Any how, what ever they thinngsks, We as Pakistani as muslims will make sure what you guyz want will not happen ...

It sounds good on papers but in real life pakistan is bad place for minorities, ask someone who belongs to one. In term of shia it has been happening for long time. Only it,s coming to light now. U live in fool,s paradise if u think pakistan is a safe place for minorities.
 
sarkar what about 40000 thousend others??
how many shia's and sunni's are killed do you know??
 
In hindsight you are admitting, it's a revenge thread......hence the intentions are clear of this purpose.
BTW, out of curiosity, since Indian Muslim share at least same religion with the Pakistan majority, what relations have Indians acquired with Pakistani Shias. !! ??

How can any Indian here hope to avenge or equal your prolific output of anti-India threads man?

That said, were you absent from the forum or sleeping during the Moharram/Ashura threads recently?

I was active there, as were many Hindu Indians. Please read and make up your own mind.

Are you Shia?
 
yahan apna rona na roen. yeh rona kahin aur ja kar roin to behtar ho ga.
sunni's ya hindo ya sikh ya shia's mar to pakistani raha hai ap ko sirf shia's ya minorities kun nazar aati hain .
shi'a say kahin ziada sunni's mary hain.
 
It sounds good on papers but in real life pakistan is bad place for minorities, ask someone who belongs to one. In term of shia it has been happening for long time. Only it,s coming to light now. U live in fool,s paradise if u think pakistan is a safe place for minorities.

Yeah i agree that Pakistan is not a perfect example & we do have our share of problems, but portraying everyone being a savage is where i differ/disagree.... i have shia friends i eat with them, visit them & just like me their are millions of us doing the same... everyone is not the same & plz stop analyzing everyone with the same parameters......
 
It sounds good on papers but in real life pakistan is bad place for minorities, ask someone who belongs to one. In term of shia it has been happening for long time. Only it,s coming to light now. U live in fool,s paradise if u think pakistan is a safe place for minorities.

minorities, yeah right.. I have seen minorities reaching top most level in military, top most levels in Government, also in my previous office we had So called minorities on good levels... so keep this **** to yourself...

N Pakistan is definitely not a safe place for minorities neither we majority because of your F****n countries who are messing in our country.... Killed Iraqis on Oil n now messing with Afghanistan n Pakistan for bloody geo-politics..
 
yahan apna rona na roen. yeh rona kahin aur ja kar roin to behtar ho ga.
sunni's ya hindo ya sikh ya shia's mar to pakistani raha hai ap ko sirf shia's ya minorities kun nazar aati hain .
shi'a say kahin ziada sunni's mary hain.

Jiss tarah aapko India aur saare jahaan mein sirf musalman nazar aate hain.

Sach bolun to hum Bharatiyon ko Shia muslamanon se koi issues nahin hain. Woh Sunniyon ki tarah maar kaat nahin karte. Bam visfot nahin karte. Fatwah aur burqa nahin karte har jagah. Shor sharaba nahin karte. Aur thode alag kism ke musalman hain.
 
pics post kar don??
door say boohot c chezen ap ko nazar nahi aatin jo nazdeek hoti hian.
laikin main filhal yeh masla nahi cherna chahta
 
Jiss tarah aapko India aur saare jahaan mein sirf musalman nazar aate hain.

Sach bolun to hum Bharatiyon ko Shia muslamanon se koi issues nahin hain. Woh Sunniyon ki tarah maar kaat nahin karte. Bam visfot nahin karte. Fatwah aur burqa nahin karte har jagah. Shor sharaba nahin karte. Aur thode alag kism ke musalman hain.

Lol you actually don't know Shia at all.. They are same as us. You are supporting them, since most Pakistanis are Sunni muslims, so it might make them burn.. otherwise, you don't know shia or sunni at all...
 
Lol you actually don't know Shia at all.. They are same as us. You are supporting them, since most Pakistanis are Sunni muslims, so it might make them burn.. otherwise, you don't know shia or sunni at all...

My best friend (I am as close to him as my brother) is a Shia muslim.

We would probably pay lip service to Shias here to irritate you - yes.

But that would not explain the fact that all Muslim issues India faces are predominantly from the Sunni community.

And the fact that of the Indian Muslims, our Shias are for the most part more educated, affluent, well adjusted, privately religious, tolerant, and of a different class than most of our Sunnis.

That helps in the perceptional dynamics of the majority (and other minorities) towards them.
 
In the days leading up to the religious holiday of Ashura, leading members of the Pakistani Shia community in Pakistan received anonymous text messages warning of violence to come: "Kill, Kill, Shia".

In recent years, Ashura - which not long ago throughout the country was an occasion which Sunnis, Shias and others among Pakistan's ethno-religious milieu would commemorate together in harmony - has become an annual flashpoint in Pakistan's increasingly sectarian and violent religious culture.

Tragically, and despite high-profile efforts by the government to clamp down on the ability to militants to target worshippers such as the limitating cellphone service and banning of motorcycles from public roads during the holiday, this year's Ashura in Pakistan signified a continuation of the country's spiral into self-destructive communal violence.

A suicide bomber in the city of Rawalpindi hurled a grenade into the midst of a Shia procession before detonating his vest and killing 23 people, while other attacks throughout the country from Karachi to Dera Ismail Khan claimed the lives of dozens more.

The attacks were claimed by Pakistani Taliban (TTP) militants who denounced the victims as "blasphemers" and stated they were engaged in a "war of belief" with Shias - stating further that attacks against them would continue until they, in their millions, were wiped out of the country.

That the fanatical nihilism of terrorist attacks against public religious ceremonies - ceremonies which have been observed since the country's founding - has become normalised and routine is a sign of the depths to which Pakistan has sunk in terms of sectarianism and social fragmentation over the past decade.



Pakistanis demand accountability for
targeted killings
Once a respected and well-integrated minority in a country where they comprise roughly 20 per cent of the population and count the nation's founder as one of their own, Shia Muslims within Pakistan have become a community under siege in recent years and are facing a situation which is increasingly being described by many Pakistanis as a slow-motion genocide.

Several hundred Pakistani Shias have been killed this year alone in increasingly high-profile attacks by extremist militants, including one incident caught on video in August in which passengers were forced off a bus in the Gilgit region and executed by armed militants who checked their victims' ID cards before killing whomsoever they could identify as being Shia.

It is believed that since the early 1990s, nearly 4,000 Pakistani Shias have been murdered in sectarian attacks, and at a pace which has rapidly accelerated in recent years. The tragic irony of this increasingly violent sectarianism is that Muhammad Ali Jinnah, widely known and revered as the "Father of the Nation" of Pakistan was himself a Shia Muslim though he maintained a secular public religious identity and preached the same for the country which he created.

His famous speech to Pakistanis in which he said: "You are free; you are free to go to your temples. You are free to go to your mosques or to any other places of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion, caste or creed…", signifies how far modern-Pakistan has departed from its founding ideals and become a place where the country's founder himself would likely be threatened and unwelcome.

Ahmadis, Barelvis, Christians and Hindus have all become subject to persecution within an increasingly religiously-chauvinistic Pakistani society, but it is Shias who have suffered the highest toll of bloodshed and whose fate is most tied to external forces intent on using Pakistan as a battleground for broader regional conflicts.

Pakistan as sectarian battleground

In an interview given to Reuters, Malik Ishaq, the leader of one of Pakistan's most notorious anti-Shia extremist groups Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (LeJ) declared Shia Muslims "the greatest infidels on earth" and demanded that the Pakistani state "declare Shia non-Muslims on the basis of their beliefs".

Ishaq's demagoguery is not idle talk, LeJ death squads are believed to have been responsible for the killings of thousands of Shias throughout the country, including a campaign of targeted murders in 2011 which killed dozens of Shia doctors, lawyers and politicians residing in the major port-city of Karachi.

One lower-level LeJ operative now in police custody, Mahmoud Baber, reportedly choked with pride and emotion while describing to reporters his "great satisfaction" at being involved in 14 murders over his militant career, saying of the organisations purpose: "Get rid of Shias. That is our goal. May God help us".

Despite his unrepentant advocacy and propagation of violence, Ishaq himself has been acquitted over 30 times on homicide and terrorism charges - an incredible run of judicial fortune which many have attributed to covert support from elements within Pakistan's national security establishment which have long cultivated such groups as potential weapons against regional rival such as India.

Indeed, while organisations like the LeJ, Pakistani Taliban, Lashkar-e-Taiba and offshoots such as the Sipah-e-Sahaba (SSP) focus their violence on Pakistani Shias, they are representative of a broader regional narrative to which the Shia community is largely a victim of geopolitical circumstance and manipulation by external parties.

Pakistan has long been a front in the battle for regional influence between Iran and Saudi Arabia, and the patronage of violent extremist groups primarily by the latter has been utilised as a tool to counter potential Iranian influence within the country.

The Pakistani Shia population, as well as the Pakistan's social cohesion as a whole, have been the collateral damage in this battle as wealthy Gulf donors have armed and funded sectarian death squads to wreak havoc against Pakistani Shias and other religious minorities within the country.



Dozens killed in string of Pakistan bombings
WikiLeaks cables released in 2009 described the extent of which this support has been facilitated: "Donors in Saudi Arabia as the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide… for groups aligned with Al-Qaida and focused on undermining stability in Afghanistan and Pakistan".

The leaked report describes in detail the extent to which wealthy, conservative Gulf donors have sought to use Pakistan as a battlefront for their war against Iran - a war in which they see all Shias across the world as being legitimate targets for violence.

An estimated $100m per year has flowed from donors from the Gulf to fund extremist groups in Pakistan and spread sectarian ideology - a massive sum especially for a developing country such as Pakistan and one which has been increasingly successful in subverting the heterodox and tolerant Islamic tradition which has historically been prevalent in the subcontinent.

Children in particular, often pliable candidates for suicide bombings, have been specifically recruited for indoctrination with those "between the ages of 8 to 12" and whose families are "suffering extreme financial difficulties" being the most favoured targets of recruitment by sectarian extremist groups.

Extremist religious sentiments


While Shia militant groups such as Sipah-e-Muhammad also do exist, these are widely considered by analysts to be marginal and largely reactionary - the Shia community has overwhelmingly been the recipient of violence as opposed to its purveyor and has become the target of external parties using Pakistan as a field upon which to settle regional scores, as well as seeking to give violent expression to their own extremist religious sentiments.

As described in an editorial by the Karachi-based Express Tribune: "A fact recognised by all in Pakistan is that the people of the country are not sectarian-minded. Before jihad took hold of Pakistan and extremist clerics became threatening, there was considerable harmony between the sects. Muharram was not the season of sectarian violence and mayhem. Today, the world understands that the intensification of the sectarian feeling among the clerics is actually a result of a war relocated from Pakistan's neighbourhood in the Gulf."

Tragically, it has become Pakistani Shias, a community which has little if anything to do with the increasingly heated conflict between Iran and Saudi Arabia, that has today become among its biggest victims of that escalating conflict.

There is growing realisation within Pakistan that the cynical manipulation of the country by regional actors is leading to a potential existential crisis for the state. Shias make up a large percentage of the country's population of 180 million and account for a significant proportion of the professional class which is vital to the nation's continued viability.

In recent months, high-profile religious leaders from across the country convened in the capital of Islamabad for a conference intended to promote intra-communal unity and "put the genie of sectarianism back in the bottle", while secular political leaders have also made forceful denunciations of the increasingly violent sectarian chauvinism within the country.

Despite these encouraging pronouncements, the horrifying scenes of murder which played out on Pakistani streets during this year's Ashura commemorations are a stark reminder of how deeply embedded violently extremist religious attitudes have become within segments of Pakistani society in recent years.

Many analysts have warned that Pakistani Shias increasingly face "sectarian cleansing" from the country if violence against them continues to accelerate, a fate which would be a tragic end to a community which for most of the Pakistan's history has lived in communal harmony with majority Sunnis and others within Pakistan's once-inclusive ethnic and religious tapestry.

If the measure of a society is how it treats its minorities, the slow-motion genocide being perpetrated against the Shia community in Pakistan is indicative of a country which has acquiesced to being devoured from the inside-out and which has sacrificed for itself any vision of a tolerant and progressive future.

Opportunistic Gulf ideologues have turned Pakistan into a charnel-house in pursuit of their own sectarian and political agendas; until Pakistanis forcefully reject the purpose towards which their country is being cynically utilised, the downward spiral of communal violence will proceed and the fate of Pakistan's Shia community will continue to be marked by increasingly wanton massacres and bloodshed.

Where Sunnis and Shias within Pakistan once commemorated their holidays together in relative harmony, there has grown an increasingly stark divide - unless it is bridged and unless imported extremist ideologies are stifled, the future of Pakistan as a unified and cohesive state will continue to be threatened.

Pakistan's Shia genocide - Opinion - Al Jazeera English
Another propaganda whats next:pop:
 
Escalation

Links between violent sectarian groups and the Pakistani Taliban are growing
Dec 1st 2012 | KARACHI | from the print edition


THE bomb was hidden on a motorcycle parked outside a milk shop in the narrow lanes of Abbas Town, a middle-class, mainly Shia district of Karachi. Ali Mudassar remembers sitting across the road from the milk-seller on the evening of November 18th, chatting to friends. The force of the explosion hurled him backwards into the steel shutters of the shops behind. Three died and at least 15 were injured. “This is a game to break Pakistan,” says 25-year-old Mr Mudassar, whose body is pitted with the tiny metal ball-bearings that were packed around the explosives.

In Karachi’s crowded Shia neighbourhoods, fear and defiance have mingled during Muharram, the month of ritual mourning that began on November 16th. Last week alone, eight bombings struck Shia processions, killing at least 31 people in cities across the country.


All through 2012, Shias, who make up an estimated 30m of Pakistan’s 180m people, have been attacked in Karachi and across Pakistan, with shootings and bombings by extremist groups, many of whom have historic links to Pakistan’s security services. Before the blasts, death squads in Karachi and the western city of Quetta tracked down and shot doctors, lawyers and other professionals, the educated elite of the Shia community. As far afield as the normally serene mountainous region of Gilgit in the north-east, passengers have been pulled off buses, identified as Shias and then shot. In Karachi Shia militants have hit back on a small scale, killing some Sunni activists, but otherwise the slaughter is one-sided. According to Hasan Murtaza, an independent researcher, 456 Shia have been killed in targeted attacks this year, more than double the casualties of 2011.

The violence has been notable not just for its scale, but for what lies beneath it: a growing alliance between established anti-Shia militant groups and the Pakistani Taliban, Sunni extremists who have spun out of the army’s control, allied with al-Qaeda, and are determined to attack the Pakistani state. Sunni militants have long targeted Shias in Pakistan, whom they condemn for following what many Sunnis consider an apostate strain of Islam.

The new venom in 2012 is a result of both the growing ties between Sunni militants and also the reverberations from the broader Shia-Sunni confrontation in the Middle East. Chaudhry Aslam, a senior counter-terrorism police officer in Karachi, says that the Pakistani Taliban and sectarian extremists now share the same agenda. The link-up with sectarian groups has given the Taliban a national network. On November 25th the Pakistani Taliban, which is distinct from the Afghan Taliban to the north-west, claimed responsibility for bombings against Shias and said it “looks forward to more ahead”.

Pakistan’s armed forces have for 30 years supported ****** groups that they want to be able to use as proxies to fight in Afghanistan and India. But when Pakistan formally sided with the United States, following the attacks of September 11th 2001, and after a bloody special-forces raid on a radical mosque in Islamabad in 2007, a faction of Sunni militants became so extreme that they turned against their former masters in the army and its Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) spy agency.

The armed forces, which control security policy, now differentiate between “good” ****** groups, which follow its agenda, and “bad” ****** groups, which attack the state. The desire to have proxies, as well as pressure from Saudi Arabia, a vital ally, to allow Sunni groups to operate in order to counter the perceived influence of Shia Iran, means that Pakistan tolerates some extremist groups, while it is at war with others. That produces monsters which spiral out of control, including sectarian groups that have now taken on the broader agenda of al-Qaeda.

New name, old ideology

Typical of the difficulties this has created is Sipah-e-Sahaba (SSP), the biggest Sunni sectarian group, which has members almost everywhere in Pakistan and continues to operate openly. Though it was formally banned in 2002, SSP is still free to spread hatred against Shias—by doing nothing more than changing its name, to Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamaat. It even fields candidates in elections. However, its offshoot, Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, involved in some of the most spectacular terrorist attacks, is regarded as anti-state.

The leadership of both Lashkar-e-Jhangvi and the Pakistani Taliban is based in North Waziristan, in Pakistan’s tribal badlands. In recent years Lashkar-e-Jhangvi has expanded its own murderous agenda to include Pakistan’s security forces and other high-profile targets. The two work closely together. The Supreme Court was told in November by the police that some 7,000 Taliban had infiltrated Karachi.

Sitting on the floor in an airless little room above a madrassa in a poor neighbourhood of Karachi, Aurangzeb Farooqi, the city chief of Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamaat, cheerfully admits that his organisation is actually Sipah-e-Sahaba. “Only the name was banned,” he says. Mr Farooqi, like other SSP leaders, enjoys armed-police protection, as well as a phalanx of his own commando-style guards. He asserts that Pakistan is a “Sunni country”, describing Shias as kaffirs (infidels), but claims that his organisation never orders attacks.

Mr Farooqi blames Lashkar-e-Jhangvi for the Shia killings. But security officials say that, although men like Mr Farooqi serve as the “political face” of SSP, the organisation is involved in violence and feeds recruits to Lashkar-e-Jhangvi who may then end up in the Pakistani Taliban. The concern is that this flow will only increase. Meanwhile, Shias are being alienated from their own country. Of those who can, many are fleeing for safer shores.
 
Pak-Marine sorry for asking bro ..... but these targeted killings, how do the killers find out someone is Shia or Sunni?

How from a busload of people, only the Shias are taken off and executed?

Inside knowledge? Informants? Neighbors?

Is there something like a national I Card which says Sunni or Shia?

I know some time back there was some discussion about Muslims having to sign some declaration for the Passport? So some sub-classification?
 
My best friend (I am as close to him as my brother) is a Shia muslim.

We would probably pay lip service to Shias here to irritate you - yes.

But that would not explain the fact that all Muslim issues India faces are predominantly from the Sunni community.

And the fact that of the Indian Muslims, our Shias are for the most part more educated, affluent, well adjusted, privately religious, tolerant, and of a different class than most of our Sunnis.

That helps in the perceptional dynamics of the majority (and other minorities) towards them.

For far too long, Indian shia muslims have been clubbed with sunnis. Most hindus dont know the difference.
I would guess that shia muslims in India are a different class, some kind of upper class muslim (most probably higher than hindus)
 

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