Pakistan offers India to take advantage of multibillion-dollar CPEC project

[indushek]

Kashmir is not unattainable, but dependent on so much going right for one side and so much going poorly for the other, for a long enough period of time.

China’s entry into the conflict has afford Pakistan some breathing space, for now. But this now just raises the stakes for Pakistan to economically reform. If India is not seen as a positive participant during these reforms, India’s development will be the impetus for pushing decision makers in Pakistan to try to catch up, once reforms have begun.

Akin to Japan after WW2, the businessmen of Japan of the 1950-1980s worked on a war footing, to catch-up with the U.S. (The Japanese business books of the era talked about “frontal attack” and “Backside attack” when explaining strategies of competing). Watch the 1986 American movie Gung-Ho get a sense of the difference in mindset by that time (it’s a lighthearted comedy but the message comes through).

China too has been building its society in a similar manner from 1978 onwards. The tech cut offs to China are driving them to build up their local industries, while Japan has stagnated, for amongst many reasons, that their relationship with the US was not zero-sum.

India should welcome this opportunity to become part of BRI, because if both Pakistan and China don’t see India as part of the solution, they will see India as part of the problem. (Considering India’s moves in the SCS and vis a vi Taiwan in recent days, it seems like it has chosen the adversarial path, making it in China’s interests to build up Pakistan)

Hi

The reason China has gotten into Kashmir issue, is to secure its own interests and not Pakistan's. If ever GB and Azad Kashmir are taken over by India, which is a big if mind you, then comes the question of Aksai Chin. The land that Pakistan gifted to China on its own.

Indian presence in GB is even more dangerous for China, compared to Azad Kashmir. Chinese feeling that with rising India, these events might come to pass some day. So they are trying to slow this down, as much as possible. Something they have been successful with India so far.

India is clearly on a adversarial path with China now, there is no doubt. Diplomatically no one will say this, but it is what it is. If there was ever any thought in India, that China and India can be friendly it was lost with Galwan. I thank them for this wake up call they gave, to every dimwit politician in our country. Who also were the reason for neglect of the Eastern states vis a vis infrastructure.

So no I don't think India will ever join this, not at least in near future.

 

[FuturePAF]

India simply doesn't have to. CPEC isn't some big project either, just $62 billion to be invested over decades (probably 2049 i.e. 100 years of Chinese independence) is a joke. If the only selling point is to give land access to India then what are we supposed to do by joining BRI?


Why would we take loans from china to give projects to chinese firms to create jobs for chinese in India bringing in chinese equipment and will then send back remittances back home with our forex?


During the same time period India is investing around $11 trillion for complete infrastructure revamp of India building new expressways, expanding dedicated freight corridors, create many huge logistics and warehousing hubs, metro rail in all Indian cities, building RRTS lines, IT Parks, new central business districts, big international airports, new smartcities, big seaports and transhipment ports around India, introduce bullet train to a lot more routes and so on.

All this by raising debt from Indian banks, giving projects mostly to Indian firms, using mostly Indian equipment, providing jobs to Indians and with no strings attached.

CPEC is nothing in front of it.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1676839854536105985

We consider china to be our biggest enemy, and our biggest geostrategic threat. We ain't doing shit with them.

No problem. In fact for the long term it’s better for Pakistan that India isn’t joining any of the BRI initiatives. It’s cuts the prospect of the entrenched Pakistani business elites to look for shortcuts via joint ventures with Indian companies. It will force the system to do more on their own or in collaboration with China.

 

[surmabhopali]

NICE JOKE ​

​

Pakistan offers India to take advantage of multibillion-dollar CPEC project​

By
APP
|July 05, 2023

A general view of Gwadar port in Gwadar, Pakistan Oct. 4, 2017. — Reuters

• "CPEC is a beautiful plan to connect people’s hearts."
• PM congratulates China on 10 years’ completion of CPEC.
• BRI is manifestation of Chinese President Xi’s vision of peace: PM.

---

Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif has urged arch-rival India to take benefit of the multibillion-dollar China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) infrastructure project instead of creating hurdles in its way.
The premier said this in a statement on Wednesday to mark the completion of 10 years of CPEC.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1676538087273537537

Highlighting the significance of the project, he said Iran, Afghanistan, the Middle East and the whole region would also benefit from the mega-development project.
“CPEC is a beautiful plan to connect not only regions and areas but also people’s hearts,” he was quoted as saying in the statement issued by the PM Office.
PM Shehbaz vowed to double the pace of the development as it was not only for improving roads, rail, seaports and air routes, but it would also help health, education and skill development areas, besides masses’ participation in the process.
Terming it a game changer for the whole region, the prime minister said CPEC would have a positive impact on the people’s living standards in the region.
The prime minister congratulated the leadership and the people of Pakistan and China on 10 years’ completion of CPEC, which he said was a new chapter of the evergreen and trusted strategic cooperative partnership between the two “iron brothers”.
He said the project was a tremendous example of great Chinese leader Xi Jinping and PML-N supremo Nawaz Sharif’s vision of “development for all”.
“The Belt and Road initiative is the manifestation of Chinese President Xi’s vision of peace, friendship, and economic partnership.”
He regretted that during the four years of the previous government, hurdles were created in the way of the project, besides levelling baseless allegations against a great friend like China.
“The enemies of CPEC are against peace, development and prosperity in Pakistan and the region, as they do not want to eradicate poverty from the country,” he added.
CPEC, he said, also initiated a new era of mutual partnership between Pakistan and China, and fortified their bilateral relationships.
PM Shehbaz said CPEC encompassed multiple projects ranging from provision of water to education, and technical and skilled-based training.
With the construction of nine Special Economic Zones (SEZs), the new technology would be transferred to Pakistan, which would ultimately help increase local production, he said.
The prime minister also highlighted the impacts of the project on the effectiveness of the National Disaster Management Authority (NDMA) and early warning system for natural disasters as they were parts of CPEC.
Similarly, he said, the agriculture-related projects had also been included in CPEC to ensure food security.

Pakistan offers India to take advantage of multibillion-dollar CPEC project

CPEC is a beautiful plan to connect people’s hearts.PM congratulates China on 10 years’ completion of CPEC.BRI is manifestation of Chinese President Xi’s vision of peace: PM.

www.geo.tv

So they want to pay loan on cpec with help of india ? No way .

 

[FuturePAF]

the world switched to maritime trade and everything took off after we got rid off middlemen collecting rent. you are suggesting the exact opposite.

the simple question is what stops Pakistan from doing the things you prescribe

What stopping Pakistan from doing this is that the incentives are not there to spend on modernizing and expanding the rail network on national funds. By contrast, even though maritime trade is cheaper (which is why China moved its labor to coastal factory towns), India still built the dedicated freight corridors because enough percentage of the people aren’t able or willing to move to coastal towns. Equally, Pakistan is building its SEZs near established large population centers then on the coast; because people are unwilling to move into an arrangement akin to many of the south Asian laboring class in the GCC.

They don’t want to spend their own money or figure it out themselves. They want it handed on a silver platter, hence not reading the fine print on loans taken out and then making a surprised pikachu face when the due date comes for the loans.

The other reason some of these rail routes couldn’t be made was that one relatively friendly government wasn’t in all of Afghanistan until now. Even the US is working with the Talibs as per Biden’s recent comment, so now there is an acceptable government to both Islamabad and the west in Afghanistan.

In the US, despite the best river system based transportation and the road network connecting every nook and cranny, there is still a demand for using rail, especially now that manufacturing is coming back to the US and onshoring to Mexico. Equally, time sensitive Indian products could be transported cheapest to Europe via a connection of West and Central Asians rail network.

 

[ProudThamizhan]

Frankly, CPEC is so badly structured AGAINST Pakistan that it is one of the (but not the only) reasons for bankrupting Pakistan in just 10 years. If Pakistan is not trying actively to disband it and get out, it has little hope of regaining economic solvency.

Many people warned about this consequence but Nawas Sherieff and team wanted something to show they are effective and signed the deal which secretively gave guaranteed project profits, guaranteed equity profits and guaranteed loan interest to China !

 

[Dalit]

In those 10 years Pakistan has run aground to bankruptcy, unable to pay even interest on debts, unable to buy fuel for military, unable to buy landing/gate fee for planes.....No thanks. CPEC is nothing but Crush Pakistan Expand China.

When are you going to conquer Kashmir?

Hi

The reason China has gotten into Kashmir issue, is to secure its own interests and not Pakistan's. If ever GB and Azad Kashmir are taken over by India, which is a big if mind you, then comes the question of Aksai Chin. The land that Pakistan gifted to China on its own.

Indian presence in GB is even more dangerous for China, compared to Azad Kashmir. Chinese feeling that with rising India, these events might come to pass some day. So they are trying to slow this down, as much as possible. Something they have been successful with India so far.

India is clearly on a adversarial path with China now, there is no doubt. Diplomatically no one will say this, but it is what it is. If there was ever any thought in India, that China and India can be friendly it was lost with Galwan. I thank them for this wake up call they gave, to every dimwit politician in our country. Who also were the reason for neglect of the Eastern states vis a vis infrastructure.

So no I don't think India will ever join this, not at least in near future.

India is not only going to face China. It is also going to face Pakistan. Your ministers keep referring to a two front war for a reason.

Frankly, CPEC is so badly structured AGAINST Pakistan that it is one of the (but not the only) reasons for bankrupting Pakistan in just 10 years. If Pakistan is not trying actively to disband it and get out, it has little hope of regaining economic solvency.

Many people warned about this consequence but Nawas Sherieff and team wanted something to show they are effective and signed the deal which secretively gave guaranteed project profits, guaranteed equity profits and guaranteed loan interest to China !

CPEC is not the reason why Pakistan is in an economic crisis. Chinese loans are provided on very favorable terms. What Pakistan got in exchange is a superb deal. Good infrastructure and energy projects. No amount of IMF and US loans will ever provide such tangible results.

Pakistan is in an economic crisis because its leaders mismanage the economy. Just have a look at the export import imbalance for an example. Pakistan has received an enormous amount of loans from various international lenders including IMF over the years. The debt is large.

Get your facts corrected.

 

[Kaniska]

Bro what they do in their home is not a problem for us.

The problem is gonna be when each one of their 15 children carry out suicide attacks in Pakistan...

Trust me, if we are alive, we will reopen same topic of impact of Taliban Afganistan on Pakistan.
I may be wrong, even if radical elements exists, but Pakistan leadership and population from eastern part of Pakistan are mostly moderate and progressive in nature.That mindset is in contrast with your Taliban Afganistan with your volaile western provinces. Unlese you address it soon, you will have more challenging time from Afganistan side than India.

 

[ProudThamizhan]

When are you going to conquer Kashmir?



India is not only going to face China. It is also going to face Pakistan. Your ministers keep referring to a two front war for a reason.



CPEC is not the reason why Pakistan is in an economic crisis. Chinese loans are provided on very favorable terms. What Pakistan got in exchange is a superb deal. Good infrastructure and energy projects. No amount of IMF and US loans will ever provide such tangible results.

Pakistan is in an economic crisis because its leaders mismanage the economy. Just have a look at the export import imbalance for an example. Pakistan has received an enormous amount of loans from various international lenders including IMF over the years. The debt is large.

Get your facts corrected.

your post is a joke void of any fact or reasoning.

 

[nahtanbob]

What stopping Pakistan from doing this is that the incentives are not there to spend on modernizing and expanding the rail network on national funds. By contrast, even though maritime trade is cheaper (which is why China moved its labor to coastal factory towns), India still built the dedicated freight corridors because enough percentage of the people aren’t able or willing to move to coastal towns. Equally, Pakistan is building its SEZs near established large population centers then on the coast; because people are unwilling to move into an arrangement akin to many of the south Asian laboring class in the GCC.

They don’t want to spend their own money or figure it out themselves. They want it handed on a silver platter, hence not reading the fine print on loans taken out and then making a surprised pikachu face when the due date comes for the loans.

The other reason some of these rail routes couldn’t be made was that one relatively friendly government wasn’t in all of Afghanistan until now. Even the US is working with the Talibs as per Biden’s recent comment, so now there is an acceptable government to both Islamabad and the west in Afghanistan.

In the US, despite the best river system based transportation and the road network connecting every nook and cranny, there is still a demand for using rail, especially now that manufacturing is coming back to the US and onshoring to Mexico. Equally, time sensitive Indian products could be transported cheapest to Europe via a connection of West and Central Asians rail network.

For example - I do not want to deal with my railway shipment being held up because some idiot burnt a quran in Sweden. How hard is it for you to comprehend ?
No one wants to deal with the yahoos who rule the intermediate lands whether it is Erdogan, Putin, mullahs of Irans, Taliban or Pakistan's generals. You see a sampling of their supporters on this forum

 

[MilSpec]

Tactical retreat and a change in strategy in the face of the new Cold War. It is time for Pakistan to end its “revolutionary period” (not because it has failed, but it has succeeded and achieved all of what it was suppose to do, in the local population and populations of all nations around itself) and focus on the economy, the real source of modern power, and adopt a mindset akin to Deng Xiaoping’s “bide your time, hide your strength, never claim leadership” saying. Pakistan now needs to provide India opportunities it can’t pass up to channel and direct its continued growth in a way that slowly balances the power dynamic. An example is a large percentage of the Indian population lives in UP and along the GT road alignment. That large percentage of the population is far from the coasts and it’s very doubtful India will move that population to factories on the coasts like China did, for a number of reasons.

Providing rail routes along the two paths westward, I mentioned in the earlier post, make it most beneficial, especially considering how much India has put into its dedicated freight corridors. It’s about using India’s own “mass” to align with Pakistan’s interests.

Kashmir will still be there when Pakistan recovers, and especially if it gets its political, civil protections and cultural act together; I.e. like a civilization dealing with another civilization, not a nation state dealing with a civilization; in a comprehensive manner.

India still has to operate in the face of certain perceptions creating limitations via Muslims in general and Kashmiris in particular.

Pakistan was ahead a generation ago on a per capita basis, with the right reforms, it’s not hard to see it recover, and regain per capita parity, if the powers that be in Pakistan makes the decision to be singularly focused upon it for at least the next two decades, in time for 2047.

Pakistan doesn’t have to outright beat India on all indicators, but offer a better and more dignified life, in a comprehensive manner, for all its citizens as well as become the benchmark for South Asian Muslims in general and Kashmiris in particular. Then just bide its time until an opportunity presents itself to find a better solution, in the coming decades.

Row in India over Obama's remarks on Muslim rights - BBC News

Mr Obama said last week that India may "start pulling apart" if minority rights weren't protected.

www.bbc.com

There is zero incentive for India to engage in cpec. As far as kashmir, @waz different perspective?

 

[Dalit]

your post is a joke void of any fact or reasoning.

The only joke here is you and your irrelivant countrymen. LOL so obsessed with CPEC and Pakistan. Your opinion means absolutely nothing. It is like a Greek hanging around in Pakistani section and lecturing Pakistanis what is good and bad for them.

Don't you sometimes feel ashamed for being so rude and obsessive with topics that have absolutely zero relevance with you? Obviously you don't.

It is a great sin in Hindu religion to engage with Pakistanis. You know that, right? It is better for you to repent for your sins and leave.

There is zero incentive for India to engage in cpec. As far as kashmir, @waz different perspective?

Why? Because Kashmir belongs to India?

 

[FuturePAF]

There is zero incentive for India to engage in cpec. As far as kashmir, @waz different perspective?

The bar is so low in the region, that if Pakistan’s culture and Justice system is clearly seen as more fair and therefore superior to all common people, especially by the people of Kashmir, after also reaching economic per capita parity, … then it’s just a matter of time.

This is not conjecture but based on what is happening in India all too regularly. The culture of fear and repercussions hides much of the what is actually going on. Even when the government officially promises Justice, the Indian government is powerless in the face of powerful people, such as the top caste, Pandits/Brahmins. These top castes are suppose to be the moral leaders of Hindu society, but when they can’t punish on of their own the society understands what is actually going on.

The following case is of a Tribal person. So there is no Muslim-Hindu factor. But there is definitely an ethnic factor, which would be akin to the plight of the Kashmiris, who speak beyond the religious angle.

Btw, what is it with Indians pissing on each other? Especially on airlines… but that’s a discussion for another thread.

As for this thread, it’s good that you clearly state Indians not interested in CPEC. It will force the powers that be that Pakistan will need to stand on its own two feet, once and for all.

For that I thank you for being against joining CPEC/BRI.

 

[CallSignMaverick]

Don't you sometimes feel ashamed for being so rude and obsessive with topics that have absolutely zero relevance with you? Obviously you don't.

Whats the thread topic once again?

 

[maithil]

One more full term Sharif rule with their "Game Changer" schemes, and we will not have to worry about Pakistan for another Generation. Last time they ensured Pakistan’s power sector goes bankrupt.

This family and its minions are amazing for us. We should declare Jati umra village a national heritage.

 

[MilSpec]

The bar is so low in the region, that if Pakistan’s culture and Justice system is clearly seen as more fair and therefore superior to all common people, especially by the people of Kashmir, after also reaching economic per capita parity, … then it’s just a matter of time.

This is not conjecture but based on what is happening in India all too regularly. The culture of fear and repercussions hides much of the what is actually going on. Even when the government officially promises Justice, the Indian government is powerless in the face of powerful people, such as the top caste, Pandits/Brahmins. These top castes are suppose to be the moral leaders of Hindu society, but when they can’t punish on of their own the society understands what is actually going on.

The following case is of a Tribal person. So there is no Muslim-Hindu factor. But there is definitely an ethnic factor, which would be akin to the plight of the Kashmiris, who speak beyond the religious angle.

Btw, what is it with Indians pissing on each other? Especially on airlines… but that’s a discussion for another thread.

As for this thread, it’s good that you clearly state Indians not interested in CPEC. It will force the powers that be that Pakistan will need to stand on its own two feet, once and for all.

For that I thank you for being against joining CPEC/BRI.

This stems from lack of understanding of statistical magnitude. Even if you stack up all the idiotic castist and communal acts in the largest population of the world, the % of wrongdoings of society is minuscule. India is the largest population in the world and we are a poor country, it will have the highest % of all negative antecedents until we can get to a low-middle-income economy.

Coming back to Cpec, there is not much for India to trade with central Asian countries, and creating an economic dependency via Pakistan is an absolutely stupid strategic idea. Pakistan should reap the benefits of Cpec, as I said we have zero interest in this.

As far as Pakistan's legal system, the less said the better, on a positive note, it's still better than Afghanistan. Culture is subjective and I wouldn't comment on it.