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Pakistan Navy seeking new jet power maritime patrol aircraft MPA

I was thinking the same thing. They need orders, expected the Royal Navy to bag a few but we went for the P8 instead.

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We went for P-8???

its not about cost, its about having a MPA with Chinese sub. and Chinese sub with Japanese MPA's both wont be happy or comfortable with it/.

If PN buys Japanese MPA then it will have western or Japanese package with it not Chinese one.
 
The leading country (price & specifications wise) for a Jet MPA integration remains the US. Followed by UK and EU. These countries have matured platforms in use worldwide. Turks may be newbies in this field and it will take some time for them to catch up. TAI is capable enough to have this ability in store within a few years time.
I agree. It seems the Saab offer is the closest in terms of capabilities and costs. The MAD is just the only issue as it's an ITAR product, but the rest (e g., Seaspray radar, Star SAFIRE EO/IR, Elettronica ESM, etc) are all in the PN's hands via the ATR-72, while AShM and ASW LWT can be had from many sources (relatively speaking).
 
What Chinese have right now or have near future development plan for the role we are seeking this? Can someone inform?
 
I agree. It seems the Saab offer is the closest in terms of capabilities and costs. The MAD is just the only issue as it's an ITAR product, but the rest (e g., Seaspray radar, Star SAFIRE EO/IR, Elettronica ESM, etc) are all in the PN's hands via the ATR-72, while AShM and ASW LWT can be had from many sources (relatively speaking).

Pakistan is better off waiting for the Airbus A320Neo MPA and eventual Airbus/Saab A320Neo GlobalEye AWACS due after 2030. My guess is, Turkey is going to opt for the Airbus A320Neo MPA as it has been denied the P8 Poseidon, F-35 and Predator drones following the plunge in relations between Ankara and Washington.

Or else it's better off waiting for China to develop an MPA/AWACS on the C919 OR Y-20

A320neo_Maritime_Patrol.jpg

And if the Airbus A320neo MPA jostled the maritime patrol market
Like the P-8 Poseidon (Boeing), a derivative of the B737, Airbus wants to launch the A320neo in the maritime patrol market (PATMAR). A new duel between the two giants of aeronautics.

It's a nice bet. But a bet that could shake the market PATMAR (maritime patrol). Provided of course to be selected by France and Germany as part of the MAWS program (Maritime Airborne Warfare System). This program aims to replace by 2030-2035 the 22 maritime patrol aircraft Atlantic 2 of the French Navy (Dassault Aviation) and the eight German P3 Orion (Lockheed Martin). What are we talking about ? The willingness of Airbus Defense to offer the A320neo MPA ( Maritime Patrol Aircraft) as a successor to the ATL 2 and Orion P3 in Berlin and Paris, which signed last April a letter of intent on the development of a new maritime patrol apparatus (MAWS).

For now, France and Germany have launched the modernization of their fleet PATMAR. Eighteen maritime patrol aircraft Atlantic 2 will be renovated, the first from 2019, the next three in 2020, then five again in 2021. "The sensors of these renovated aircraft are very promising , explained last February the leader Naval Staff, Admiral Christophe Prazuck, will be put into operational service from 2021 " . Launched in 2015, the modernization of the German P-3C Orion fleet should allow the aircraft to remain in service for another 20 years.


The MAWS program launched in 2022?
After having already discarded apparently a Japanese proposal Kawazaki P-1, Germany and France should have the choice between two platforms: either a Falcon or an A320neo, which has a range of action from 6,300 km . "We think we have a platform that meets the needs of the French and Germans very well , " Airbus Defense & Space boss Dirk Hoke explained in a recent interview with La Tribune . It will above all be necessary to convince the Directorate General of Armament (DGA) that this device is well suited to PATMAR missions. Because some are not yet within the DGA. According to the report of the chairman of the Defense Committee of the National Assembly Jean-Jacques Bridey on the next military programming law, the PATMAR program "will be drawn up in 2022, for a realization from 2025 and deliveries planned after 2030 "

Within Airbus, it pleads that the Franco-German program is quickly launched in order to have a credible export program. Because the world fleet PATMAR has already entered a phase of very active renewal. Thus, after India, Australia, the United Kingdom and Norway, South Korea will acquire six P-8 Poseidon (Boeing), derived from the B737, to modernize its maritime patrol capabilities . Airbus, which estimates the potential global market to a hundred PATMAR devices, fears a "domino effect" in favor of Boeing.

Also, Airbus and / or Dassault Aviation must be able to respond quickly to Boeing. Especially as several countries including France in 2017, have joined the program "Multinational Maritime Multinational Mission" within the framework of NATO: Germany, Greece, Italy, Spain, Turkey. A program that also attracted Canada and Poland in February 2018. It allows participants in this program to define their common capabilities and needs in the field of maritime patrol aviation. This is why Airbus advocates "a European solution". In addition, some Asian countries should have such a weapon system in view of rearmament in this region, especially in the China Sea.

A system of systems?
Beyond the inexpensive and the most efficient A320neo platform on the market, according to Airbus, what counts for the European manufacturer is the system aspect. The European giant knows how to do, he has already achieved success with the maritime versions of the C295 and C235. Which will make him a formidable competitor if the A320neo MPA takes off one day. This new aircraft will have to be very effective both over the North Atlantic to hunt submarines and above the ground to monitor and inform during external operations. It will also be part of a fleet of different platforms - satellites, HAPS ( High Altitude Pseudo- Satellite), drones. The Germans are already collaboratively flying their P-3 Orion and Northrop Grumman's Triton drones. Moreover, the PATMAR system is intended to enter the system of systems SCAF (Future Air Combat System), it is estimated at Airbus.

Like any PATMAR aircraft, the A320neo MPA will receive an anti-submarine and anti-surface weapons system and will be able to carry a variety of weapons in a large arms bunker (torpedoes, mines, etc.) and under wings (four points can embark missiles intended to attack naval or land targets). Its long range, combined with its integrated tactical system (FITS), will make the A320neo MPA a platform for maritime patrol and anti-submarine warfare missions.
 
Pakistan is better off waiting for the Airbus A320Neo MPA and eventual Airbus/Saab A320Neo GlobalEye AWACS due after 2030. My guess is, Turkey is going to opt for the Airbus A320Neo MPA as it has been denied the P8 Poseidon, F-35 and Predator drones following the plunge in relations between Ankara and Washington.

Or else it's better off waiting for China to develop an MPA/AWACS on the C919 OR Y-20

A320neo_Maritime_Patrol.jpg

And if the Airbus A320neo MPA jostled the maritime patrol market
Like the P-8 Poseidon (Boeing), a derivative of the B737, Airbus wants to launch the A320neo in the maritime patrol market (PATMAR). A new duel between the two giants of aeronautics.

It's a nice bet. But a bet that could shake the market PATMAR (maritime patrol). Provided of course to be selected by France and Germany as part of the MAWS program (Maritime Airborne Warfare System). This program aims to replace by 2030-2035 the 22 maritime patrol aircraft Atlantic 2 of the French Navy (Dassault Aviation) and the eight German P3 Orion (Lockheed Martin). What are we talking about ? The willingness of Airbus Defense to offer the A320neo MPA ( Maritime Patrol Aircraft) as a successor to the ATL 2 and Orion P3 in Berlin and Paris, which signed last April a letter of intent on the development of a new maritime patrol apparatus (MAWS).

For now, France and Germany have launched the modernization of their fleet PATMAR. Eighteen maritime patrol aircraft Atlantic 2 will be renovated, the first from 2019, the next three in 2020, then five again in 2021. "The sensors of these renovated aircraft are very promising , explained last February the leader Naval Staff, Admiral Christophe Prazuck, will be put into operational service from 2021 " . Launched in 2015, the modernization of the German P-3C Orion fleet should allow the aircraft to remain in service for another 20 years.


The MAWS program launched in 2022?
After having already discarded apparently a Japanese proposal Kawazaki P-1, Germany and France should have the choice between two platforms: either a Falcon or an A320neo, which has a range of action from 6,300 km . "We think we have a platform that meets the needs of the French and Germans very well , " Airbus Defense & Space boss Dirk Hoke explained in a recent interview with La Tribune . It will above all be necessary to convince the Directorate General of Armament (DGA) that this device is well suited to PATMAR missions. Because some are not yet within the DGA. According to the report of the chairman of the Defense Committee of the National Assembly Jean-Jacques Bridey on the next military programming law, the PATMAR program "will be drawn up in 2022, for a realization from 2025 and deliveries planned after 2030 "

Within Airbus, it pleads that the Franco-German program is quickly launched in order to have a credible export program. Because the world fleet PATMAR has already entered a phase of very active renewal. Thus, after India, Australia, the United Kingdom and Norway, South Korea will acquire six P-8 Poseidon (Boeing), derived from the B737, to modernize its maritime patrol capabilities . Airbus, which estimates the potential global market to a hundred PATMAR devices, fears a "domino effect" in favor of Boeing.

Also, Airbus and / or Dassault Aviation must be able to respond quickly to Boeing. Especially as several countries including France in 2017, have joined the program "Multinational Maritime Multinational Mission" within the framework of NATO: Germany, Greece, Italy, Spain, Turkey. A program that also attracted Canada and Poland in February 2018. It allows participants in this program to define their common capabilities and needs in the field of maritime patrol aviation. This is why Airbus advocates "a European solution". In addition, some Asian countries should have such a weapon system in view of rearmament in this region, especially in the China Sea.

A system of systems?
Beyond the inexpensive and the most efficient A320neo platform on the market, according to Airbus, what counts for the European manufacturer is the system aspect. The European giant knows how to do, he has already achieved success with the maritime versions of the C295 and C235. Which will make him a formidable competitor if the A320neo MPA takes off one day. This new aircraft will have to be very effective both over the North Atlantic to hunt submarines and above the ground to monitor and inform during external operations. It will also be part of a fleet of different platforms - satellites, HAPS ( High Altitude Pseudo- Satellite), drones. The Germans are already collaboratively flying their P-3 Orion and Northrop Grumman's Triton drones. Moreover, the PATMAR system is intended to enter the system of systems SCAF (Future Air Combat System), it is estimated at Airbus.

Like any PATMAR aircraft, the A320neo MPA will receive an anti-submarine and anti-surface weapons system and will be able to carry a variety of weapons in a large arms bunker (torpedoes, mines, etc.) and under wings (four points can embark missiles intended to attack naval or land targets). Its long range, combined with its integrated tactical system (FITS), will make the A320neo MPA a platform for maritime patrol and anti-submarine warfare missions.
What worries me about Airbus (and other European consortiums) is cost-escalation and delays.

The A320neo M3A is a great concept and if they stick to existing COTS, it should be good in terms of capability and price. But these folks are always liable to scope change. That said, a skimmed down export variant with the hardpoints would be good.

I'd also like to see them try an in-flight refueling variant using the A320neo M3A; basically, add Cobham pods to the hardpoints (in place of the weapons). Seeing a common aircraft to handle AEW&C, MPA, EW, ISR and IFR would be a dream.
 
I think the idea is to conduct long range anti submarine operations and patrolling in extended EEZ and beyond for extended hours by adopting jet power MPA in this case any MPA based on business jet might not be helpful
 
I think the idea is to conduct long range anti submarine operations and patrolling in extended EEZ and beyond for extended hours by adopting jet power MPA in this case any MPA based on business jet might not be helpful
Hi HRK couple of Q from you
1 china is using any of the jet power for maritime
2 how big is their coastline as compare to Pakistan
If china is not using any of the jet powered plane isn’t it good enough for us what we got
At the moment
Your reply and input will be appreciated
Thank you
 
1 china is using any of the jet power for maritime
I think no ....
2 how big is their coastline as compare to Pakistan
~13 times of Pakistan's coastline of 1,100 kilometre
If china is not using any of the jet powered plane isn’t it good enough for us what we got
At the moment
most of the world is not using jet powered MPA currently USA and Japan are the only countries who have made such large jet power MPAs SAAB is offering a package with Global-500 jet
 
I think no ....

~13 times of Pakistan's coastline of 1,100 kilometre

most of the world is not using jet powered MPA currently USA and Japan are the only countries who have made such large jet power MPAs SAAB is offering a package with Global-500 jet

HRK, bro do you think that PN will go for the swordfish ? seems like that choice no ?
 
HRK, bro do you think that PN will go for the swordfish ? seems like that choice no ?
it is difficult to say though it seem Ideal in our environment specially with 11.5 hours on station time after 200 NM cruise with a nice package for MPA role, but might be difficult to acquire because Sweden might not be interested to work with Pakistan for multiple political reasons.

Swordfish MPA could find interest by Indian navy as well which could use it to complement their P-8i fleet.
 
I think no ....

~13 times of Pakistan's coastline of 1,100 kilometre

most of the world is not using jet powered MPA currently USA and Japan are the only countries who have made such large jet power MPAs SAAB is offering a package with Global-500 jet
Hi HRK thx for your detailed reply another Q I hope you don’t get agitated
Do we really need jet powered MPA if yes how many
Thank you
 
Do we really need jet powered MPA if yes how many
Current requirements seem fulfilled with ATR-72 and P-3C Orion but may be PN is seeking these as replacement of P-3Cs in future and as the Naval Chief himself has stated the requirement so yes it is very much official requirement which the navy is considering for future fleet of MPA.

Now as far as numbers are concern it will be difficult to comment as not much detail is available about this but at minimum it will very difficult to consider a fleet of less than 3-4 Jet power MPAs for PN along with some turboprop MPA fleet, but keep in mind at least I don't see any jet power MPA within 3-5 years for PN.

I believe @Bilal Khan (Quwa) might be more helpful to answer this specific query as he has already written an article about SAAB offering for global market at his Quwa website.
 
Current requirements seem fulfilled with ATR-72 and P-3C Orion but may be PN is seeking these as replacement of P-3Cs in future and as the Naval Chief himself has stated the requirement so yes it is very much official requirement which the navy is considering for future fleet of MPA.

Now as far as numbers are concern it will be difficult to comment as not much detail is available about this but at minimum it will very difficult to consider a fleet of less than 3-4 Jet power MPAs for PN along with some turboprop MPA fleet, but keep in mind at least I don't see any jet power MPA within 3-5 years for PN.

I believe @Bilal Khan (Quwa) might be more helpful to answer this specific query as he has already written an article about SAAB offering for global market at his Quwa website.
As said earlier, the Saab Swordfish on the Bombardier Global 6000 has 2/3 acquisition cost and 1/2 the life-cycle cost of the Boeing Poseidon. So we're looking at a purchase cost of around $80 m per Swordfish MPA and around $140-180 m per Swordfish (vs. $250-300+ m per Poseidon) with spare parts, training and weapons.
 
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