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Pakistan Is Not A Failed State

This topic has been discussed before and here i believe was my post last time too.


Indicators of state vulnerability

The index's ranks are based on twelve indicators of state vulnerability - four social, two economic and six political.[5] The indicators are not designed to forecast when states may experience violence or collapse. Instead, they are meant to measure a state's vulnerability to collapse or conflict. All countries in the red (Alert, FSI of 90 or more), orange (Warning, FSI of 60 or more), or yellow (Moderate, FSI of 30 or more) categories display some features that make parts of their societies and institutions vulnerable to failure. Some in the yellow zone may be failing at a faster rate than those in the more dangerous orange or red zones, and therefore could experience violence sooner. Conversely, some in the red zone, though critical, may exhibit some positive signs of recovery or be deteriorating slowly, giving them time to adopt mitigating strategies.

Social indicators

1. Demographic pressures: including the pressures deriving from high population density relative to food supply and other life-sustaining resources. The pressure from a population's settlement patterns and physical settings, including border disputes, ownership or occupancy of land, access to transportation outlets, control of religious or historical sites, and proximity to environmental hazards.
2. Massive movement of refugees and internally displaced peoples: forced uprooting of large communities as a result of random or targeted violence and/or repression, causing food shortages, disease, lack of clean water, land competition, and turmoil that can spiral into larger humanitarian and security problems, both within and between countries.
3. Legacy of vengeance-seeking group grievance: based on recent or past injustices, which could date back centuries. Including atrocities committed with impunity against communal groups and/or specific groups singled out by state authorities, or by dominant groups, for persecution or repression. Institutionalized political exclusion. Public scapegoating of groups believed to have acquired wealth, status or power as evidenced in the emergence of "hate" radio, pamphleteering and stereotypical or nationalistic political rhetoric.
4. Chronic and sustained human flight: both the "brain drain" of professionals, intellectuals and political dissidents and voluntary emigration of "the middle class." Growth of exile/expat communities are also used as part of this indicator.[9]

Economic indicators

5. Uneven economic development along group lines: determined by group-based inequality, or perceived inequality, in education, jobs, and economic status. Also measured by group-based poverty levels, infant mortality rates, education levels.
6. Sharp and/or severe economic decline: measured by a progressive economic decline of the society as a whole (using: per capita income, GNP, debt, child mortality rates, poverty levels, business failures.) A sudden drop in commodity prices, trade revenue, foreign investment or debt payments. Collapse or devaluation of the national currency and a growth of hidden economies, including the drug trade, smuggling, and capital flight. Failure of the state to pay salaries of government employees and armed forces or to meet other financial obligations to its citizens, such as pension payments.

Political indicators

7. Criminalization and/or delegitimisation of the state: endemic corruption or profiteering by ruling elites and resistance to transparency, accountability and political representation. Includes any widespread loss of popular confidence in state institutions and processes.
8. Progressive deterioration of public services: a disappearance of basic state functions that serve the people, including failure to protect citizens from terrorism and violence and to provide essential services, such as health, education, sanitation, public transportation. Also using the state apparatus for agencies that serve the ruling elites, such as the security forces, presidential staff, central bank, diplomatic service, customs and collection agencies.
9. Widespread violation of human rights: an emergence of authoritarian, dictatorial or military rule in which constitutional and democratic institutions and processes are suspended or manipulated. Outbreaks of politically inspired (as opposed to criminal) violence against innocent civilians. A rising number of political prisoners or dissidents who are denied due process consistent with international norms and practices. Any widespread abuse of legal, political and social rights, including those of individuals, groups or cultural institutions (e.g., harassment of the press, politicization of the judiciary, internal use of military for political ends, public repression of political opponents, religious or cultural persecution.)
10. Security apparatus as ‘state within a state’: an emergence of elite or praetorian guards that operate with impunity. Emergence of state-sponsored or state-supported private militias that terrorize political opponents, suspected "enemies," or civilians seen to be sympathetic to the opposition. An "army within an army" that serves the interests of the dominant military or political clique. Emergence of rival militias, guerilla forces or private armies in an armed struggle or protracted violent campaigns against state security forces.
11. Rise of factionalised elites: a fragmentation of ruling elites and state institutions along group lines. Use of aggressive nationalistic rhetoric by ruling elites, especially destructive forms of communal irredentism (e.g., "Greater Serbia") or communal solidarity (e.g., "ethnic cleansing", "defending the faith").
12. Intervention of other states or external factors: military or Para-military engagement in the internal affairs of the state at risk by outside armies, states, identity groups or entities that affect the internal balance of power or resolution of the conflict. Intervention by donors, especially if there is a tendency towards over-dependence on foreign aid or peacekeeping missions


For certain indicators certainly India performs worse.

But because of WOT and the recent floods in certain areas Pakistan's performance is bad.
 
mmmmmm then what about all those Indian states and areas under Maoists and other insurgents ?

State as in refering to a nation.:tongue:, try your best to fit us in that list :chilli:

India is headed by an able economist, Mr Manmohan Singh.:angel:

His efficiency as an economist needs no links to substantiate.:cool:
 
Numbers made by some guy sitting behind a desk doesn't mean anything.

When India looks like this:

The World's Toilet Crisis: Vanguard Trailer // Current

You shouldn't be talking.

The same scene is in Pakistan.
In facts its way more.
Go through the Nat Geo documentaries on Pakistan.
It reflects the truth.
And then go through India's.
Yes we have negative ones,but way more positive ones than you.
Acc. to a Pakistani,who gave reuters source India population BPL is 26% and Pakistan is 27%With a population of India 10 times more than you and 1% less people BPL,it speaks loads.
Its just that India is huge,it has more poor people,but the fact is ratio of poors in Pakistan is higher.
 
The same scene is in Pakistan.
In facts its way more.
Go through the Nat Geo documentaries on Pakistan.
It reflects the truth.
And then go through India's.
Yes we have negative ones,but way more positive ones than you.
Acc. to a Pakistani,who gave reuters source India population BPL is 26% and Pakistan is 27%With a population of India 10 times more than you and 1% less people BPL,it speaks loads.
Its just that India is huge,it has more poor people,but the fact is ratio of poors in Pakistan is higher.

NOPE.jpg

Only within past 3 years has Pakistan's poverty jumped 17% to 27%. Mainly because of recession and inflation and to top it off with the 20 million homeless thanks to the floods. The reason India looks like that is because India is so densely populated.

Our poverty percentage jumps up and down, while yours remains the same and slowly engulfs more people.
 
NOPE.jpg

Only within past 3 years has Pakistan's poverty jumped 17% to 27%. Mainly because of recession and inflation and to top it off with the 20 million homeless thanks to the floods. The reason India looks like that is because India is so densely populated.

Our poverty percentage jumps up and down, while yours remains the same and slowly engulfs more people.

As per world bank estimates , it was 60% in 1981,as of 2005 it came down to 42% ,i'm referring to Global poverty line of $1.25 day(PPP).

It naturally slower,but there is only decrease

Its nothing to be proud of,but yeah progress is being made.
 
In terms of poverty both countries have their problems, but the figure that should shock and anger indians is the sheer number of the indian poor.

Nearly 80 pct of India lives on half dollar a day

Aug 10 (Reuters) - Seventy-seven percent of Indians -- about 836 million people -- live on less than half a dollar a day

The state-run National Commission for Enterprises in the Unorganised Sector (NCEUS) said most of those living on below 20 rupees (50 US cents) per day were from the informal labour sector with no job or social security, living in abject poverty.

Nearly 80 pct of India lives on half dollar a day | Reuters

Now for many people to have nearly 80% of the people living on less than half a dollar a day, would be a sign of a failed state, and after sixty years of independence is indeed pitiful.
 
In terms of poverty both countries have their problems, but the figure that should shock and anger indians is the sheer number of the indian poor.

Nearly 80 pct of India lives on half dollar a day

Aug 10 (Reuters) - Seventy-seven percent of Indians -- about 836 million people -- live on less than half a dollar a day

The state-run National Commission for Enterprises in the Unorganised Sector (NCEUS) said most of those living on below 20 rupees (50 US cents) per day were from the informal labour sector with no job or social security, living in abject poverty.

Nearly 80 pct of India lives on half dollar a day | Reuters

Now for many people to have nearly 80% of the people living on less than half a dollar a day, would be a sign of a failed state, and after sixty years of independence is indeed pitiful.

80% ?? stop the BS :woot: the reports of 2005 -06 itself said that India's poverty rate was 27.5 % (OFFICIAL report from Planning comission of India) the no. is getting better with every passing day and the reason for that is , becuase the India state has the money...thus the picture willonly improve from here...and compare that with pakistan, inspite of less no of poor people, the state is buried under the debts from various institutions..many times unable to pay lons, the entire state runs on aid money....economy is marching backward...and to top it all, more large scale troubles in form of poverty, debts,terrorism,suicide killings,etc..instead of a better future peopl are seeing their downfall with every passing day..thats falure my friend.

BTW..next time post latest reports ,not some article which was written years before, especially in case of India..your article is from 2007...which is BTW false. t prove that read the articles below.

read some latest article on same topic.

Poverty rate in India will dip to 24% by ’15

for your basic knowldge. read wikipedia as well.
Poverty in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
In terms of poverty both countries have their problems, but the figure that should shock and anger indians is the sheer number of the indian poor.

Nearly 80 pct of India lives on half dollar a day

Aug 10 (Reuters) - Seventy-seven percent of Indians -- about 836 million people -- live on less than half a dollar a day

The state-run National Commission for Enterprises in the Unorganised Sector (NCEUS) said most of those living on below 20 rupees (50 US cents) per day were from the informal labour sector with no job or social security, living in abject poverty.

Nearly 80 pct of India lives on half dollar a day | Reuters

Now for many people to have nearly 80% of the people living on less than half a dollar a day, would be a sign of a failed state, and after sixty years of independence is indeed pitiful.



What that report says is such an average family lives on about Rs.2400 a month.

Of course life in city is difficult,but in village its ok.

As per definition: Poverty is the lack of basic human needs, such as clean water, nutrition, health care, education, clothing and shelter, because of the inability to afford them.

I think Rs.2400 can cover those above in a village,but its term relative is applicable here.

The above based on my experience of my village.

GOI concerned about those living in destitution or absolute poverty.
Hence the national poverty line definition those who live below Rs.356 a month. and that percentage is 28.6% per 2007.

At the end of the day its better to stick to PPP terms when calculating percentage living under poverty.
 
@ Rafi : if we start going according to local reports..then i geuss, you wil belive this report as well.

India is at 89th rank with 25 % population under poverty line and Pakistani juts 2 positions below at 91 with 24% poverty line.

which means, the gap between india and pakistan is of just 1% inspite of having much smaller population compared to India..which means more trouble ahead for you and more to think about yourselves than India, seeing the current economy trends of both the countries...

with pleasure..

Population below poverty line - Country Comparison
 
@ Rafi : if we start going according to local reports..then i geuss, you wil belive this report as well.

India is at 89th rank with 25 % population under poverty line and Pakistani juts 2 positions below at 91 with 24% poverty line.

which means, the gap between india and pakistan is of just 1% inspite of having much smaller population compared to India..which means more trouble ahead for you and more to think about yourselves than India, seeing the current economy trends of both the countries...

with pleasure..

Population below poverty line - Country Comparison

wow.. quite surprised to see the rankings of Romania, Georgia , Brazil etc.. is this for real??/
 
wow.. quite surprised to see the rankings of Romania, Georgia , Brazil etc.. is this for real??/

I dont really trust this report, as our poverty rate is 37% currently..that was to prove how, wrong data has been cirulated about indian povety by peole ..just like rafi presnted a false report of India haing 80% of population under overty...but this report is quite close to India's official report of 2005-06 from planning comission.
 
wow.. quite surprised to see the rankings of Romania, Georgia , Brazil etc.. is this for real??/

Its based on that respective nation's poverty line definition.

Since its a European nation they"ll have higher standards of poverty/poverty definition.

For example in US if you can't afford health insurance you are considered poor.

However in SA the definition differs.
 
80% ?? stop the BS :woot: the reports of 2005 -06 itself said that India's poverty rate was 27.5 % (OFFICIAL report from Planning comission of India) the no. is getting better with every passing day and the reason for that is , becuase the India state has the money...thus the picture willonly improve from here...and compare that with pakistan, inspite of less no of poor people, the state is buried under the debts from various institutions..many times unable to pay lons, the entire state runs on aid money....economy is marching backward...and to top it all, more large scale troubles in form of poverty, debts,terrorism,suicide killings,etc..instead of a better future peopl are seeing their downfall with every passing day..thats falure my friend.

BTW..next time post latest reports ,not some article which was written years before, especially in case of India..your article is from 2007...which is BTW false. t prove that read the articles below.

read some latest article on same topic.

Poverty rate in India will dip to 24% by ’15

for your basic knowldge. read wikipedia as well.
Poverty in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Come one man Wikipedia is no source u know that anyone can change it without anyt authentication .

To the topic : Pakistan will not be failed state inshaallah ,we managed to pull our exports to with 37 percent increase given all the security situation .As far is inflation is concerned just coz of sum thugs sitting in parliment we have inflation but even then we are surviving tht too.
 

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