Pakistan Air Force - An Analysis

Discussion in 'Pakistan Air Force' started by jagjitnatt, Feb 16, 2010.

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  1. jagjitnatt
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    jagjitnatt SENIOR MEMBER

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    Pakistan Air Force has played an active and important role in the wars of 1965 and 1971. It has been very professional and capable force till date. But I feel it has been ignored for a long time now. Sufficient funding was not provided at the right time. Almost all the aircraft in PAF's inventory are obsolete and need to be upgraded or replaced. Let's evaluate the current status of the PAF.

    Current Inventory:
    F7P - 120
    F7PG - 60
    A5 - 41
    Mirage 5 ROSE - 34
    Other Mirage 5 - 58
    Mirage III ROSE - 33
    Other Mirage III - 58
    F16 block 15 - 41
    Total - 445

    Out of these aircraft, F7P and F7PG are reaching the end of their life and need a replacement soon. The A5 is too old and has been in need for replacement for a long time now. The Mirage III and Mirage 5 are also very old. Although they had good record and had been upgraded to ROSE standard, a replacement should have been considered, since in 2010 even with the upgrade these planes are outdated. The F16 A block 15 that the PAF uses are very old and need immediate upgrade. In short, ALL the aircraft in PAF's inventory are old, and need a replacement. This is a situation that should never have cropped up if funding for new projects and new aircraft was done at the right time. Look at the Indian inventory. Every 7-10 years a major funding is provided to purchase new aircraft or fund an existing project with a partner. Purchases at regular intervals assure that at any point of time you'll have at least 50% of your aircraft that are not outdated and use modern equipment. This type of commitment was very much lacking in the Pakistan government. A glance at the 1985-2005 time period will reveal that no major programs were started, nor were any purchases made. In this period of 20 years, at least 2 major purchases should have been made so that the whole fleet wouldn't need to be replaced now.

    Current Indian Inventory:

    Mig 21 bison - 250
    Mg 27 - 147
    Mig 29S - 69
    Mirage 2000H - 60
    Jaguar IS - 84
    Su30MKI - 120
    Total - 730

    In the next ten years, the scenario would change dramatically and in favor of India. And that should be very evident from the steps being taken right now. Lets discuss the scenario 10 years from now in 2020.

    Pakistan Inventory:
    JF-17 - 200 (considering 20 per year)
    F16A - 41
    F16C - 12
    F16D - 6
    J10 - 36
    Total - 285

    Indian Inventory:
    LCA Tejas - 110 (considering 14 per year after 2012)
    Su30MKI - 280
    MRCA - 80 (considering 10 per year)
    FGFA - 20
    Mig 21bison - 150 (retiring all non bisons and reducing 20 bisons per year after 2018)
    Mig 29SMT - 69
    Mirage 2000H - 60
    Total - 769

    As seen from the figure, while India would be expanding its fleet of aircraft, Pakistan Air Force would be reducing its fleet by a huge number. Not only are the numbers reducing by a huge figure, but also the diversity would reduce to just 3 types of aircraft performing all sorts of different roles. This is a time to worry for the Pakistani Defence Forces.

    The recent times have been a little bright for the forces. JF-17 program was started which would become the mainstay of the Air force and play the major role in future combats. But even now, the old F16s are outdated and need to be replaced with better alternatives. A huge program is required at the moment. Pakistan needs to invest in an aircraft for its future needs. An indigenous effort will only result in huge investment financially and research wise which would not be feasible. But a joint development could be a possibility.

    Pakistan needs at least 100-150 state of the art aircraft to fill the gap in its inventory and pose a serious threat to the enemy. The J-XX is a program Pakistan could look at. Other alternatives also include purchase of high end aircraft like Mirage Rafale or F35. Although some might say that the current economy does not approve these purchases, they are in fact well within Pakistani budget.
    The fact is that money is not being poured in where it should be and corrupt leaders and officials worsen the situation even more. The military spending is not balanced, a lot of money goes unaccounted. There is no balance sheet of how much money was spent and where.

    Things are improving but a lot needs to be done and looking at the current political scenario, things look tough for sure.

    This is my own analysis and I could be wrong in some matters. Polite suggestions would be welcome. Please have a peaceful discussion and trolls stay away. Hope to have a peaceful discussion.
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  2. XiNiX
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    XiNiX SENIOR MEMBER

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    Add to It :

    In Pakistani Side :

    3-5 More AWACS
    IL78 Refuellers
    More F16s [ Possible ]
    T129s from Turky

    Indian Side :

    3 More Falcons
    DRDO AWACS
    Several SPYDER and Akash Squadrons
    MKI AESA Upgrade
    Probably 3-6 More Refuelers [ Boeing 767 / IL 78s ]
    6-12 C130s
    10 Globe Masters
    Airborne Brahmos

    Dedicated Satellite in 2014

    Indians have an edge but Role Wise, Pakistani numbers are sufficient for a Defensive Role.
  3. Taha Samad
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    Taha Samad FULL MEMBER

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    1)F-7PG were inducted in 2001-2002 so although basic design is old but planes are new.

    2)Secondly after MLU F-16 A/B's will come close to blk 52 standards and will be fit for service till 2025.

    3)Thirdly since 36 FC-20's are expected to be delievered by 2015.One expects PAF to give a follow-on order.

    If you look at history of PAF procurements it has always been like this:
    initially a small order
    followed by a bigger order

    4)so my number will be as follows

    60 F-16's AM/BM/C/D
    250 Jf-17
    around 80-100 FC-20
    and its possible some of F-7PG will still be in service

    so around 400 aricrafts atleast
    so things are not that bad considering we have historically fought wars,out numbered 3:1

    5) as far as planning goes PAF ordered a total of 111 F-16's out which 71 were embargoed.So with no other options left, it is quite clear why PAF's fleet is composed of so many old planes.


    http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article14.html

    6) until FGFA is ordered i won't say anything about it.
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  4. jagjitnatt
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    jagjitnatt SENIOR MEMBER

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    All F-7P and F-7PG are reported to be replaced completely by JF-17 by 2015

    F16A/B cannot be upgraded to C/D standards due to different airframe. Although they can be upgraded to an extent that the difference between the two is very less.
    Follow order would take place after a full evaluation and testing, which would take a year or so, then it would be modified/upgradeed to Pakistani standards. Different things would be tried on it. Orders would be placed then. Delivery of aircraft would start by 2019-20.

    yes, thanks. I appreciate. :)
    Regarding JF-17, even after being very optimistic that 20 JF-17s would start rolling down the production line annually from tomorrow on, by 2020 PAF would only have 200 JF-17, although a couple of years after 2020, it will have 250 JF-17s.
    And sir, F7 would not be in service. It was inducted in late 80s and early 90s. So its 20 years already.

    this is something, we both really don't know about. Just what our press told us and obviously I was told otherwise. ;)

    I appreciate that.
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  5. AZADPAKISTAN2009
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    AZADPAKISTAN2009 ELITE MEMBER

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    HAHAHAHAHA.....

    By 2015

    Pakitan AirForce will have follow

    ---------------2015------------------------2010
    JF17----------300+ ------------------------50+
    J10-B---------36----------------------------100+ (OPTION)

    J11 -----------Negotiation Stage possible by 2020
    F22 -----------Negotiations stage possible by 2020
    F16A/B 41 MLU
    F16C/D 18 (2010)

    Extra fire power (For Anti Tank/Anti Ship Missions)
    Mirage 200 (All three Mirage brands day/night missions)
    Chinese playnes 200


    Summary : 400+ airplanes for Ground support and raids
    500+ airplanes for Air Superiority with BVR capabilities
    10 AWACS
    100 AWAC killer missiles


    *** Pakistan makes 30 JF17 thunders a year, and gets 10
    purchased via , chinese counter part


    Pakistan is missing strategic Bombmers in its squadrons 12 of these would be very welcomed sight
  6. jagjitnatt
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    jagjitnatt SENIOR MEMBER

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    Sorry sir, I know my analysis is not deep, but it surely is accurate. I does give an idea of what the future of PAF is gonna be like. You can also shed some light and enlighten me with something that I may not know.

    We also have other threads but they are now full of trolls and need to be closed. I also intent to keep this thread clean and logical.

    Regards
    Jagjit
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  7. jagjitnatt
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    jagjitnatt SENIOR MEMBER

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    Please read what you wrote. And Pakistan just started making JF-17s and not even a single squadron is ready. So 30 JF-17s/year is a little out of limit here.
    Please don't feed trolls. Let's be meaningful. Can we? :pakistan:
  8. Imran Khan
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    Imran Khan PDF VETERAN

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    as per your so called think(analisys)

    in 2015
    india - 750jets
    pakistan -250jets

    in 2020
    india - 1000 jets
    pakistan - 150

    in 2025

    india - 1500 jets
    pakistan -100jets

    in2030
    india - 2000jets
    pakistan - no air force


    are you happy now sir?. i am 100% clear you think like this and be happy to spread this on net.
    best regards
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  9. 1000VA
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    1000VA FULL MEMBER

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    Wake up AZADPAKISTAN Wake up......:cheesy: Here your coffee:coffee:
  10. jagjitnatt
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    jagjitnatt SENIOR MEMBER

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    bigad kyon rahe hain bhai ssahib?
    I am in no way trying to defame PAF. PAF needs bold steps for the next few years. Just want you to take up the matter. So that something is done. Waise this is the first time I saw you like this.
  11. 1000VA
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    1000VA FULL MEMBER

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    That's a classy joke sir....:yahoo:
  12. Imran Khan
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    Imran Khan PDF VETERAN

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    i see everyday members dump us like this way bro.if you think in PAF central command is full of stupids thats great for you.:D
  13. Kinshuk
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    Kinshuk BANNED

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    From Pakistan's Point of view, if they are able to maintain 400+ fighters, its a good deal to play defensive.

    India must start induction of MMRCA by 2012, we must not stretch the production any above 2020 fig even if we want 200 of them.
  14. AZADPAKISTAN2009
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    Accroding to Air Marshal by 2011 we will be making guareteed 16 planes / year but it will be incresed up to 30 locally in Pakistan , plus also chinese production increases

    :D hope you can sleep well at night ...

    Oh he also said pakistan can use Precision guided missiles for strategic strikes, navy missiles, and air-air , BVR air to air, air to ground... every thing :victory:
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2013
  15. 1000VA
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    1000VA FULL MEMBER

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    You have to learn how to add numbers buddy..I'm giving you Kamra's maximum capacity of production according to your source, now you can add the numbers and ended it up on your target 300+ jets:rofl:

    2011-------------16+10
    2012-------------30+10
    2013-------------30+10
    2014-------------30+10
    2015-------------30+10
    ====
    ???
    I'm going to sleep well Good night friend:wave:
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2010