What's new

Mystery of CPEC Payments

This is just how the Chinese operate with their foreign investments, the contracts go to their state-owned companies and they bring in their own technicians to work on the projects.

In the case of CPEC there simply isnt Pakistani firms capable of constructing the higher efficient Chinese power plants, or the equipment to drill deep underground. They do assign their own technicians to oversee a team of Pakistani engineers, and one of the purposes of the Chinese techs is to train and assist the Pakistani engineers in the design and construction of these projects. Many of the projects also have the Chinese 'sub-contracting' to Pakistani firms anyway, the Chinese usually just maintain control on the engineering and design side of the projects.

Projects that can be independently handled by Pakistani companies such as the road projects and buildings are awarded to Pakistani firms.

Any other claims are just wild speculation because the simple fact is that a lot of information regarding CPEC is withheld by government officials, so its ridiculous to make these kind of articles in the absence of information.

Obviously there will be some sub-contracting to Pakistani firms but I cannot find such data anywhere. Why is it so important to keep it a secret?

As for your point about the way Chinese invest overseas, you have to remember that they are not very old at the game. And the problems faced by Chinese infrastructure problems from ASEAN to Africa to Sri Lanka are many. These projects have massive cost over-runs, zero local participation, often give negative risk-adjusted returns and in the absence of a master plan do not result in any flow of externalities.

http://thediplomat.com/2015/05/the-trouble-with-chinas-infrastructure-plans-in-asean/

https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/b1d9177c-7650-11e6-bf48-b372cdb1043a

The Chinese want security on their investments and this is just how they operate, CPEC is after all a series of loans and not charity. Besides that, it doesnt matter becasue the benefit gained from these projects is worth it:

The power grid is becoming balanced, railways are being revamped across the country, a major fibre optic project, Lahore Mass transit system, and of course the construction and revamping of many highways across the country.

Yes there may be a debt trap if the economy suddenly stagnates and doesn't grow, but as long as it does (and it will), then it will be enough to offset the debt.

I agree that the gains made in power supply, transportation and telecommunication are appreciable. It is no one's case that it is not so.

Having said that, you mentioned the main issue, which is whether or not the required externalities will be developed. Take the example of Sri Lanka.
In Sri Lanka, after the Hambantota port and adjoining infrastructure built by the Chinese hemorrhaged so much money that now they have had to lease it out to the Chinese itself as the government has literally defaulted on loan payments. The port was supposed to be a rival to Singapore, and yet could never take off. High debt servicing burden, lack of clear master plan, having no complementary development of the surrounding area, all these ensured that a port project on even an established trade route failed.

So while you are right in the sense that if the proper externalities accrue then the project will be a success, but the risk is enormous to say the least.

Development of the area surrounding Gwadar will be the key. A port, warehouses and and overland transportation network will not justify the cost of CPEC and the project would give negative risk-adjusted returns.

http://thediplomat.com/2016/11/china-and-sri-lanka-between-a-dream-and-a-nightmare/

It used to be good and you can see for yourself if you read articles from several years back, although they had criticism they were more balanced and usually proposed solutions or ideas at the end. Compare that with what they write now, and its clear that at some point they decided to completely switch their theme and writing style.

Another 'coincidence' is that those older articles were completely absent of Indians, and now almost every article on Dawn is flooded with them. They are clearly pandering to a certain type of audience, and they are a business after all.

I can understand your anguish at journalism that is not outcome-based and does not give fixes. I too was young not that long ago. But as you grow older, you will realize that theoretical frameworks are as vital as practical solutions. Western countries often get large projects right because they have already debated and discussed the theoretical framework to death.

But yes, it is very curious as to why so many Indians read it. It cannot be just for journalistic excellence, because Indians themselves are not the most discerning readers. So I agree it is a bit fishy.

Yes, and in the desperation for CPEC to fail, some facts are misrepresented and wild leaps in logic are made in the absence of important facts.

:o::-):lol::lol:

I hope you are not referring to me as I have only an academic interest in the subject. Economics is fascinating.
 
Indians are so mad that they are being double-penetrated by Pakistan and China through CPEC. Does it hurt so bad my indian brothers?

Article is written by a Pakistani and published in a Pakistani newspaper. Just because you Chinese don't get to question your government doesn't mean the Pakistanis can't either.
 
I am actually liberal myself... beyond the usual norm... however, any appeasement of eternal enemies of pakistan.. You are a neo-liberal in my books.

I don't know how you define liberal, because one of the most obvious tenets of liberalism is not taking a hardline stand on nationalism. Dawn articles mostly talk about the need for education, healthcare, economic and political reforms in Pakistan. What part of it is appeasement of the external enemy according to you? Have you never wondered as to why a liberal progressive agenda is often in conflict with a nationalist agenda?

So where do you think construction material is coming? Cement, Iron, etc ?

From China, mostly.

http://www.cpecinfo.com/cpec-news-detail?id=MjY5
 
I don't know how you define liberal, because one of the most obvious tenets of liberalism is not taking a hardline stand on nationalism. Dawn articles mostly talk about the need for education, healthcare, economic and political reforms in Pakistan. What part of it is appeasement of the external enemy according to you? Have you never wondered as to why a liberal progressive agenda is often in conflict with a nationalist agenda?



From China, mostly.

http://www.cpecinfo.com/cpec-news-detail?id=MjY5

I define liberal in the new modern sense.

The new modern liberalism is closely tied to patriotic nationalism. It should not be confused with isolation nor with racism.

Modern liberalism recognizes a tolerant open society but also recognizes the challenge of global terrorism, state sponsored terrorism, and extremist terrorism.

Pakistan is a victim of extremist terrorism and foreign state sponsored terrorism. Pakistan liberalism recognizes this, while Pakistani neo-liberalism doesn't. We know who our enemies are.

Same hold true for other countries such as in Europe. Their liberals recognize the external threat and are patriotic nationalist holding true to their liberal way of life.

As such ... I am an Islamic Patriotic Liberal.

I want an open tolerant Islamic progressive
Muslim democratic society for all while being staunchly Pakistan First!
 
Obviously there will be some sub-contracting to Pakistani firms but I cannot find such data anywhere. Why is it so important to keep it a secret?

Its not so much about keeping it a secret as much as it is the lack of transparency. You probably understand how the Chinese work, most of the details are on a need-to-know basis, its similar in Pakistan except there isnt even really the infrastructure for sharing details of administration outside of basic facts such as the national budget, or national statistics.

That being said, this culture might change as the largest opposition party is campaigning on a platform of anti-corruption and transparency. Maybe next year if they win the elections we could get more details, or maybe when the current projects in their own province (Khyber Pakhtunkhwa) are finished we could get some more details from the provincial government.

As for your point about the way Chinese invest overseas, you have to remember that they are not very old at the game. And the problems faced by Chinese infrastructure problems from ASEAN to Africa to Sri Lanka are many. These projects have massive cost over-runs, zero local participation, often give negative risk-adjusted returns and in the absence of a master plan do not result in any flow of externalities.

I agree that the gains made in power supply, transportation and telecommunication are appreciable. It is no one's case that it is not so.

Having said that, you mentioned the main issue, which is whether or not the required externalities will be developed. Take the example of Sri Lanka.
In Sri Lanka, after the Hambantota port and adjoining infrastructure built by the Chinese hemorrhaged so much money that now they have had to lease it out to the Chinese itself as the government has literally defaulted on loan payments. The port was supposed to be a rival to Singapore, and yet could never take off. High debt servicing burden, lack of clear master plan, having no complementary development of the surrounding area, all these ensured that a port project on even an established trade route failed.

My understanding is that the projects in Africa are large state-owned enterprises doing one-off investments in various areas without taking into account various factors like the environment, the local economy, the population, etc. so they arent really the same thing, I guess you could say that the Chinese have a history of doing those kind of activities but, with CPEC they have a vested national interest to see it succeed as it directly impacts their own country.

ASEAN projects as part of the Chinese Maritime Silk Road and as i understand it, are still incomplete. Various projects are done but they make up a small part of the overrall route itself, so I would hold off judgement untill everything is in place and is under operation.

Now back to CPEC, as a project it is very unique. It plays a key role in linking the two of Chinas largest projects, the One Belt, One Road, and the Maritime Silk Road; Furthermore it plays a key role in linking connectivity with Xinjiang and Central Asia with a route to the sea which is part of their plan to overhaul and bring prosperity to that region. The fact that CPEC plays such an important role in Chinas ambitions in the world, and their own relations with a long-standing ally like Pakistan leads me to believe that they probably haven't designed the plan to fail. You bring up the port in Sri Lanka but is that really a good comparison? that is just a single port that was poorly administrated, and left without much support which meant it was doomed to fail; CPEC as a whole is far wider in scope in that it encompasses Pakistan, Central Asia, and Chinese provinces, as well as the fact that it utilities projects in every single sector from agriculture to tourism.

The main route itself unlike the other projects in Africa and ASEAN makes use of Pakistan's largest cities, Karachi, Hyderabad, Multan, Lahore, Islamabad, Peshawar, each utilising different projects with different capacities. With the massive amount of interaction going into the projects it is almost certain that it will boost economic growth to offset the costs of the loans.

CPEC and Gwadar unlike the Sri Lankan Port, has also attracted a lot of interest and many major companies and nations have expressed their intention to invest a lot of many into various projects. Most recently Germany announced yesterday that they plan to put in €109 million for various projects, this among the interest shown from all over the world essentially means the overall project is 'too big to fail'. Businesses all over have already committed, and many are testing the waters to put in further investment. With further reductions in terrorism and an increase in electrical supply, its almost certain that we will see even more future investment.

I also want to point out that this is a joint initiative by both the governments of Pakistan and China. As I stated before the Chinese are training thousands of Pakistani technicians to oversee the projects and have employed workers across the country, at the moment I believe that theres around 18,000 employed in several projects, and according to Pakistani job sites there will be 300,000 vacancies over the next 12 years. Government estimates have also stated that the total number of employment will range from 700,000 up the 2.3 million.

Development of the area surrounding Gwadar will be the key. A port, warehouses and and overland transportation network will not justify the cost of CPEC and the project would give negative risk-adjusted returns.

http://thediplomat.com/2016/11/china-and-sri-lanka-between-a-dream-and-a-nightmare/

Dont worry these things have been planned, there is a plan available on the internet describing the overhauling the entire Gwadar area, and setting up various free trade zones in the area. Its hard to say how successful it is at the moment given the fact that Gwadar itself has only just become operational, and phase 2 of the Gwadar construction is still underway. I believe the main issues with Gwadar on the whole though is the lack of fresh water supply, but they are currently looking into solutions for that.

I can understand your anguish at journalism that is not outcome-based and does not give fixes. I too was young not that long ago. But as you grow older, you will realize that theoretical frameworks are as vital as practical solutions.

Exactly, whats the point in talking about theoreticals in major projects without proposing solutions? these aren't journalists, they are usually academics so they should already have ideas about what can be proposed. By not doing this they probably get more shares and clicks on the articles from Indians who basically have their own pre-existing notions 'confirmed' on how CPEC has completely failed.

But yes, it is very curious as to why so many Indians read it. It cannot be just for journalistic excellence, because Indians themselves are not the most discerning readers. So I agree it is a bit fishy.

Thank you, you can probably now understand why Pakistanis are less likely to recommend Dawn as much as they used to.

I hope you are not referring to me as I have only an academic interest in the subject. Economics is fascinating.

Dont worry man you're okay :p:

My comment was just in general and from the mostly negative reactions of Indians to CPEC as opposed to the mostly positive reaction from people of other nationalities.
 
I define liberal in the new modern sense.

The new modern liberalism is closely tied to patriotic nationalism. It should not be confused with isolation nor with racism.

Modern liberalism recognizes a tolerant open society but also recognizes the challenge of global terrorism, state sponsored terrorism, and extremist terrorism.

Pakistan is a victim of extremist terrorism and foreign state sponsored terrorism. Pakistan liberalism recognizes this, while Pakistani neo-liberalism doesn't. We know who our enemies are.

Same hold true for other countries such as in Europe. Their liberals recognize the external threat and are patriotic nationalist holding true to their liberal way of life.

As such ... I am an Islamic Patriotic Liberal.

I want an open tolerant Islamic progressive
Muslim democratic society for all while being staunchly Pakistan First!

I am also a believer in liberal progressive ideals, and understand your position to a certain extent. It is true that if you feel that a particular liberal way of life is threatened by certain forces, then opposing them is correct. You have rightly given the example of European liberals who feel that they need to protect their nation's liberal ideals.

However, there are two things that I don't understand -

Firstly, what part of Pakistan's liberal identity is under threat? Pakistan is a self-identified Islamic, non-secular state. Non-Muslims cannot aspire for the top positions in the country by law. Ahmadiyas are declared Non-Muslims by the Constitution. So what exactly are sectarian terrorists threatening?

Secondly, how is Dawn helping them? I repeat, while you may not consider the articles high quality, the newspaper is mostly concerned with socio-economic, education, secular issues that liberals identify with. I read it not only for news about Pakistan, but also for the op-eds on global issues.

Yes, on certain issues they do speak a line that may be inconvenient to some Pakistanis. Such as the fact that they have a theory that terrorism is a two-way street and we should look at who started it, and that blaming outside forces for all evils in Pakistan is not the right way. How is that treasonous?
 
Why is it so important to keep it a secret?

Because it is none of your business!

And it is better for it to be kept secret so that our enemies (Indians, etc) and anti-nationals can't play propaganda games with the facts and figures and sabotage it through a new narrative published via sellout media houses like Dawn and Jang group.
 
Because it is none of your business!

And it is better for it to be kept secret so that our enemies (Indians, etc) and anti-nationals can't play propaganda games with the facts and figures and sabotage it through a new narrative published via sellout media houses like Dawn and Jang group.

:lol::lol::lol:

I have a spare tinfoil hat, which I have no use for. Would you like to borrow it?
 
The latest quarterly report by the State Bank of Pakistan points out an intriguing development regarding the payments connected with CPEC projects. This year, the gap between import recorded by the Pakistan Bureau of Statistics (PBS) and the State Bank has widened to a historic high. The report says that over a 10-year period, this gap has been an average of $1.6 billion, but this year it climbed to $3bn.

There are good reasons why there should be a gap between the figures reported by the PBS and those reported by the State Bank. The PBS uses customs data, where goods landing at the port are valued by the customs authorities before being assessed for duty, while the State Bank uses banking data, where banks report how much they have paid for imports through letters of credit.

Often goods that land at the port have been paid through means other than a banking channel, or in some cases they are paid under a deferred payment plan, so the goods arrive and their value is registered as an import by customs, but the payment is sent much later through banks.

But there are no good reasons as to why this discrepancy should be so large, and why this massive gap should materialise so suddenly in the first half of the current fiscal year. A closer look shows some interesting developments. Here is what the report says: “a large share of this discrepancy can be explained by the surge in import of power generation machinery, which is being recorded by customs but is not fully visible in import financing data available with SBP. The gap in import data for power generation equipment also widened dramatically to US$ 1.1bn in H1-FY17, from the previous 10-year’s average of just US$ 193 million. Since most power sector activity in the country is taking place under the CPEC umbrella, it is highly probable that the widening gap between the two import datasets is linked with the CPEC”.

It appears that power-generation machinery is landing at the port but the outgoing payments cannot be seen.
So it appears that power-generation machinery is landing at the port but the corresponding outgoing payments for this machinery cannot be seen. Either the payments will be due much later, or the companies responsible for the projects are simply making the payments directly in China, after taking a loan from a Chinese bank. This is how the report puts it: “Typically, banks report import financing data to SBP after importers make payments against L/Cs. However, that appears not to be the case with imports of power generation machinery over the past two and a half years: there has been a relatively minor increase in these imports based on L/C-level data provided by commercial banks to SBP. Hence, it appears that the bulk of these machinery imports are being financed from outside the Pakistani banking channel.”

Translation: we’re not sure what’s going on. How are we seeing large-scale imports landing at the port, but not seeing any payment going out for them? If the settlement is being made “outside the Pakistani banking channel”, what does that imply for the “investments” we were supposed to see from China? Surely the outflows on debt servicing will go from the Pakistani channel, but the inflows are not being routed through it.

“This difference indicates that capital equipment imports into the country, FDI and loans from China are not being fully captured in BoP data,” says the report. So our balance-of

payments accounts is now way off, and we have an ever-diminishing idea of how much is coming and going. But what happens once these projects begin commercial operations and their debts and repatriation of dividends gets going? Will that bill arrive with a bang?

Connected to this is another intriguing development: the level of Chinese foreign direct investment coming into the country appears to have fallen, even as the project’s implementation is gathering pace and large-scale machinery imports are getting going. Inflows from China as direct investment actually dropped this year by 54 per cent compared to last year, with the bulk of this decline in the power sector.

So how come the power sector is seeing massive amounts of Chinese activity, with projects gathering speed and momentum and large amounts of machinery landing at the port, while imports and investment from China are either stagnant or declining sharply? Connected with this is the fact that loans from China are rising, particularly for balance-of-payments support. In the first half of the fiscal year, the government has received $848m in loans from a Chinese bank, presumably as balance-of-payments support to help pay for whatever Chinese imports are coming, for which payments are being sent through the Pakistani banking system.

Given the massive scale of the funds involved, the State Bank is right to feel a little puzzled as to why the banking system has not felt the stress from these payments. For now, we can rejoice that material is landing in the country seemingly for free, but project documents make clear that these are commercial projects, so it should be equally clear that soon outflows will begin to pay their cost. So if the stress hasn’t manifested itself yet, that could mean it will arrive later, in magnified form, because we will have to pay not only for the equipment, but interest on top.

This is further evidence that we do not fully know how CPEC is really going to work once it gets going. If the government knew that this is how the procurement would work, it would have been a good idea to inform the State Bank in advance so they would not be taken by surprise in December of this year and have to launch a rather large reconciliation exercise. And if they didn’t know that this is how things were going to work, then one can only wonder what else they don’t know about these deals.

The writer is a member of staff.

khurram.husain@gmail.com

Twitter: @khurramhusain


Published in Dawn, April 6th, 2017

https://www.dawn.com/news/1325124/mystery-of-cpec-payments

I am also want to know the mystery man behind every CPEC article on dawn. Seriously because of those shitty articles in dawn make lose dawn credibility and dawn is already lost lots of her credibility.
 
Last edited:
Kindly quote such law and for what positions please. ?

Part III: The Federation of Pakistan
Chapter 1: The President

41 The President.
(1) There shall be a President of Pakistan who shall be the Head of State and shall represent the unity of the Republic.

  • (2) A person shall not be qualified for election as President unless he is a Muslim of not less than forty-five years of age and is qualified to be elected as member of the National Assembly.
Furthermore...

Third Schedule
Oaths of Office
Prime Minister
[Article 91( 746[5] 746)]
(In the name of Allah, the most Beneficent, the most Merciful.)

The Prime Minister has to swear an Islamic oath


Maybe you should wear that spare too to stop CPEC nightmares & obsession.

Why are you so paranoid, really? If CPEC is such a good thing then what could possibly go wrong with a few articles and some people merely discussing it?
 
Article is written by a Pakistani and published in a Pakistani newspaper. Just because you Chinese don't get to question your government doesn't mean the Pakistanis can't either.
What was the question Indians asked of its government? How to remain in sub Saharan level of poverty.

Well congratulations, they answered it. Feel superior now? Or would you like to ask a few more.
 
The Prime Minister has to swear an Islamic oath
Oh yes, That is true that is in our constitution. To lead the country one has to be muslim, but they are free to choose other ministries or perhaps become CEO of theirs
 
Obviously there will be some sub-contracting to Pakistani firms but I cannot find such data anywhere. Why is it so important to keep it a secret?

As for your point about the way Chinese invest overseas, you have to remember that they are not very old at the game. And the problems faced by Chinese infrastructure problems from ASEAN to Africa to Sri Lanka are many. These projects have massive cost over-runs, zero local participation, often give negative risk-adjusted returns and in the absence of a master plan do not result in any flow of externalities.

http://thediplomat.com/2015/05/the-trouble-with-chinas-infrastructure-plans-in-asean/

https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/b1d9177c-7650-11e6-bf48-b372cdb1043a



I agree that the gains made in power supply, transportation and telecommunication are appreciable. It is no one's case that it is not so.

Having said that, you mentioned the main issue, which is whether or not the required externalities will be developed. Take the example of Sri Lanka.
In Sri Lanka, after the Hambantota port and adjoining infrastructure built by the Chinese hemorrhaged so much money that now they have had to lease it out to the Chinese itself as the government has literally defaulted on loan payments. The port was supposed to be a rival to Singapore, and yet could never take off. High debt servicing burden, lack of clear master plan, having no complementary development of the surrounding area, all these ensured that a port project on even an established trade route failed.

So while you are right in the sense that if the proper externalities accrue then the project will be a success, but the risk is enormous to say the least.

Development of the area surrounding Gwadar will be the key. A port, warehouses and and overland transportation network will not justify the cost of CPEC and the project would give negative risk-adjusted returns.

http://thediplomat.com/2016/11/china-and-sri-lanka-between-a-dream-and-a-nightmare/



I can understand your anguish at journalism that is not outcome-based and does not give fixes. I too was young not that long ago. But as you grow older, you will realize that theoretical frameworks are as vital as practical solutions. Western countries often get large projects right because they have already debated and discussed the theoretical framework to death.

But yes, it is very curious as to why so many Indians read it. It cannot be just for journalistic excellence, because Indians themselves are not the most discerning readers. So I agree it is a bit fishy.



:o::-):lol::lol:

I hope you are not referring to me as I have only an academic interest in the subject. Economics is fascinating.

First a few things, generating power, having this road, and etc are all realities. You know what isn't a reality? A good plan.

You talk of Sri Lanka and what not, guess what without our money they have no port. No it may not have been as successful as one would hope, but it's there.

You living in Germany, you may not appreciate this, Germany can afford to wait, if nothing gets done, nothing bad happens to the Germans.

If countries like India and Pakistan wait, then you will remain in poverty one more day.

You want lengthy discussions? That would be good, except neither India nor Pakistan gave itself room to breath, hence there is no time.

Yes, during China's rush to build many things went wrong, but you know what we have now, world's second largest freeway system, largest bullet train system, and complete electricity and running water coverage. No it's not done to perfection, but talking about it more, means these people will once again be left without water and electricity, once more they need to sit in a train for 3 days to visit their family.

To Germany, not having trains means flying, not having an airport you can drive. To Chinese, Indian and Pakistani, not having something means you are stuck in the stone age.
 
Back
Top Bottom