LR-SAM Successfully Tested From INS Kolkata

[Mo12]

Wow 4 pages and no comments yet from a Pakistani, Bangladeshi or Chinese member yet!

 

[Parul]

 

[Force Awakens]

Wow 4 pages and no comments yet from a Pakistani, Bangladeshi or Chinese member yet!

No problem I will notify them:


@Donatello
@MaarKhoor @xyxmt
@Areesh @RiazHaq @Windjammer @DESERT FIGHTER @farhan_9909 @IceCold @batmannow @Muhammad Omar @cb4 @BDforever @MBI Munshi

 

[Parul]

 

[kṣamā]

No problem I will notify them:


@Donatello
@MaarKhoor @xyxmt
@Areesh @RiazHaq @Windjammer @DESERT FIGHTER @farhan_9909 @IceCold @batmannow @Muhammad Omar @cb4 @BDforever @MBI Munshi

They are Waiting for 2050 to comment... As per them it was then it was to be integration.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Which missile was the incoming missile?

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Congrats

 

[Zek]

Congratz to the seccussful JV of India and Israel
May we'll see larger and more sophisticated projects in the near future.

 

[proud_indian]

Which missile was the incoming missile?

https://twitter.com/x/status/682155087318224896

it must be banshee,

 

[PARIKRAMA]

@SpokespersonMoD 4h4 hours ago
Indian Navy achieves a significant milestone in enhancing its anti missile defence capability.(1/4)
‏@SpokespersonMoD 4h4 hours ago
Successfully test fires long range surface to air missiles from INS Kolkata. Aerial targets destroyed at extended ranges. (2/4)
@SpokespersonMoD 4h4 hours ago
Quantum jump in air defence capability of Indian Navy. LRSAMs being fitted in capital warships progressively. (3/4)
@SpokespersonMoD 4h4 hours ago
Joint effort of Indian Navy, DRDO & M/s IAI, Israel.(4/4)


- All capital ships getting barak 8
- Extended range implies closer to 70-100 Km

Source :Indian Navy successfully test fires Long Range Barak 8 missile from INS Kolkata - The Economic Times

Excerpts
These Surface to Air Missiles are fitted onboard the Kolkata Class Destroyers and would also be fitted on all future major warships of the Indian Navy. This missile along with the MF STAR would provide these ships the capability to neutralize aerial threats at extended ranges.



++ My opinion on barak 8 challenges (pls bear its a maxi post)

Next would be the Barak 8 ER version or extended range with one more stage probably a booster stage.. I am expecting it perhaps to reach 150 km minimum with outer peripheral reach or max reach of 170 odd kms

It would be interesting to see how soon the ER version comes out and whats the length of the extended section. Significantly, if they limit the speed to present levels of Barak 8, the fuel burn out per second and requisite thrust may optimally boost it to 150-170 km range over flightpath.

In case, they increase the fuel burnout and use the higher thrust momentum to accelerate the missile forward and increase its speed of interception then the new extended range may fall between 130-150 km

The greatest challenge now will be to see that new ER does not get too big in length, weight and can replace 8 Barak 8s with say 6 Barak 8 ER cells. This makes me to believe, they would choose the first option of not increasing speed but rather the flight time for the optimum 150-170 km range

Interestingly MFSTAR 2248 AESA may be be insufficient for Barak 8 ER for aircraft engagement but the low flying sea skimming missile characteristics needs a bit upgrade IMHO
From IAI
www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/files/0/30310.pdf

A stealth fighter or a LO fighter carrying a sea skimmed AshM will create detection issues and perhaps will be more reasonable to assume detection at around 150-180 km and thus the barak 8 ER engagement will be closer to 60-100 kms (same as Barak 8 present model). Similarly, a sea skimming missile detection range at 25 kms will again force a more judicious use of Barak 8 over Barak 8 ER. BTW the mast of Kolkata is higher and hence the radar detection of sea skimming is more in the range of 35-40km.

However, the present 2248 is optimized for Barak 8 but IMHO, the AESA radar itself will limit the optimum potential of the system with both tracking of LO jets at low altitude and sea skimming missile detection

Now consider a hypothetical scenario

• An AESA radar which enables our ships to detect LO aircraft at low altitude around 150 km (assuming to be flying at say Mach 2 (2450 km/hr or 40.833~41 km/minute). (150km being 60% of high flying aircraft detection and due to higher mast).
• The assumption is that detection to authorisation of hostile intent shootdown is assumed to be minimum of 1 minute
• In that 1 minute the LO aircraft flies further towards IN ship to ~ 110 km range
• At the end of 1 minute Barak 8 is fired (standard/ER anyone)
• Assuming Barak 8 speed as 2 mach same as incoming aircraft so it travels 41 km per minute
• after 1 minute Barak 8 has travel 41 km from the ship and hostile aircraft has travelled further 41 km from previous 110 km and is now at 68 km approx. The distance between the two now is 27 km
• With each travelling around 0.68 km per second, the engagement will happen in approx 21 seconds about 41+14=55 km from the ship (41km already traveled and 14km traveled in 21 second)
• End to end calculation is as under
  • Detection at T0 = 150 km
  • Detection, Warning, Authorization of shoot down and firing = 1 minute, hostile at 110 km
  • Engagement in 1 minute 20 seconds from T0 or 80 seconds at 55 km from the ship
• Assume further a sea skimming missile is fired just before the hostile is destroyed.
  • Detection of sea skimmed missile at 40km the new T0 (assuming the missile is already now in its supersonic speed when detected)
  • Immediately Barak 8 is fired time lapsed 15 seconds
  • Sea skimmer assume again Mach 3 (Brahmos is mach 2.8) travelling at 3375 km/hr or 56.25 km per min or 0.9375km/sec
  • So in 15 seconds before barak 8 is fired, the sea skimmer missile travels 14 km inwards and is now 26km away from the ship
  • Barak 8 engages the hostile in approx 15 seconds where barak 8 travels 10.88 km whereas the hostile at mach 3 travels inwards by approx 15 km and is shot down
  • Implies the barak8 shot down the missile at ~11km from the ship
• End to end calculation
  • Detection at new To = 40km
  • Detection, Warning, Authorization of shoot down and firing = 15 seconds and hostile is now at 26km from ship
  • Engagement in 15+15 = 30 seconds from T0 at 11 km from the ship

The above is a hypothetical example and variables may change the reaction time smaller.
In the scenario mentioned, the efficacy of Barak8 itself for supersonic targets is enough and even Barak8 standard type is not using the full extent of its range. It can use the same if the hostile aircraft and missiles travels at speed mentioned below

I am not even considering that aircraft and hostile missile may exhibit high G turns and try to avoid interception making reaction time smaller and more closer to ship


Thus, here based on the above approximate guesstimation, the 2248 radar detection for LO targets will limits the performance to the Barak 8 standard version for higher speed hostiles (aircraft LO types lower altitude and engagement distance). The same is also seen for sea skimming missiles detection (i considered upto hypersonic 5 mach)

The extended version or Barak 8 ER will need LO aircraft at low altitude detection in much excess of present assumed 150 km but rather the 250km for standard LO birds and other higher altitude detection at more of 350-400km range

@Vauban @Abingdonboy @anant_s @AUSTERLITZ @MilSpec and others
Pls correct me if i am wrong in concluding the limitation of 2248 for LO aircraft low altitude flying interception for barak 8 standard version and for detecting sea skimming missiles at 40 km implying the Barak8 is never used to its full potential.
The pinpoint interception is fine but design for longer range and effectively not able to due to limitation of system detection is what i am trying to point out.

BTW i dont know what other option we have other than perhaps getting IAI help in increasing 2248 range for LO detection

 

[Irfan Baloch]

No problem I will notify them:


@Donatello
@MaarKhoor @xyxmt
@Areesh @RiazHaq @Windjammer @DESERT FIGHTER @farhan_9909 @IceCold @batmannow @Muhammad Omar @cb4 @BDforever @MBI Munshi

sometimes a silent nod is enough response what else you want from people? come and troll you over hygiene and inability to keep little one under the zips? thus spoiling every other thread?

 

[anant_s]

@SpokespersonMoD 4h4 hours ago
Indian Navy achieves a significant milestone in enhancing its anti missile defence capability.(1/4)
‏@SpokespersonMoD 4h4 hours ago
Successfully test fires long range surface to air missiles from INS Kolkata. Aerial targets destroyed at extended ranges. (2/4)
@SpokespersonMoD 4h4 hours ago
Quantum jump in air defence capability of Indian Navy. LRSAMs being fitted in capital warships progressively. (3/4)
@SpokespersonMoD 4h4 hours ago
Joint effort of Indian Navy, DRDO & M/s IAI, Israel.(4/4)


- All capital ships getting barak 8
- Extended range implies closer to 70-100 Km

Source :Indian Navy successfully test fires Long Range Barak 8 missile from INS Kolkata - The Economic Times

Excerpts
These Surface to Air Missiles are fitted onboard the Kolkata Class Destroyers and would also be fitted on all future major warships of the Indian Navy. This missile along with the MF STAR would provide these ships the capability to neutralize aerial threats at extended ranges.



++ My opinion on barak 8 challenges (pls bear its a maxi post)

Next would be the Barak 8 ER version or extended range with one more stage probably a booster stage.. I am expecting it perhaps to reach 150 km minimum with outer peripheral reach or max reach of 170 odd kms

It would be interesting to see how soon the ER version comes out and whats the length of the extended section. Significantly, if they limit the speed to present levels of Barak 8, the fuel burn out per second and requisite thrust may optimally boost it to 150-170 km range over flightpath.

In case, they increase the fuel burnout and use the higher thrust momentum to accelerate the missile forward and increase its speed of interception then the new extended range may fall between 130-150 km

The greatest challenge now will be to see that new ER does not get too big in length, weight and can replace 8 Barak 8s with say 6 Barak 8 ER cells. This makes me to believe, they would choose the first option of not increasing speed but rather the flight time for the optimum 150-170 km range

Interestingly MFSTAR 2248 AESA may be be insufficient for Barak 8 ER for aircraft engagement but the low flying sea skimming missile characteristics needs a bit upgrade IMHO
From IAI
www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/files/0/30310.pdf
View attachment 283642


A stealth fighter or a LO fighter carrying a sea skimmed AshM will create detection issues and perhaps will be more reasonable to assume detection at around 150-180 km and thus the barak 8 ER engagement will be closer to 60-100 kms (same as Barak 8 present model). Similarly, a sea skimming missile detection range at 25 kms will again force a more judicious use of Barak 8 over Barak 8 ER. BTW the mast of Kolkata is higher and hence the radar detection of sea skimming is more in the range of 35-40km.

However, the present 2248 is optimized for Barak 8 but IMHO, the AESA radar itself will limit the optimum potential of the system with both tracking of LO jets at low altitude and sea skimming missile detection

Now consider a hypothetical scenario

• An AESA radar which enables our ships to detect LO aircraft at low altitude around 150 km (assuming to be flying at say Mach 2 (2450 km/hr or 40.833~41 km/minute). (150km being 60% of high flying aircraft detection and due to higher mast).
• The assumption is that detection to authorisation of hostile intent shootdown is assumed to be minimum of 1 minute
• In that 1 minute the LO aircraft flies further towards IN ship to ~ 110 km range
• At the end of 1 minute Barak 8 is fired (standard/ER anyone)
• Assuming Barak 8 speed as 2 mach same as incoming aircraft so it travels 41 km per minute
• after 1 minute Barak 8 has travel 41 km from the ship and hostile aircraft has travelled further 41 km from previous 110 km and is now at 68 km approx. The distance between the two now is 27 km
• With each travelling around 0.68 km per second, the engagement will happen in approx 21 seconds about 41+14=55 km from the ship (41km already traveled and 14km traveled in 21 second)
• End to end calculation is as under
  • Detection at T0 = 150 km
  • Detection, Warning, Authorization of shoot down and firing = 1 minute, hostile at 110 km
  • Engagement in 1 minute 20 seconds from T0 or 80 seconds at 55 km from the ship
• Assume further a sea skimming missile is fired just before the hostile is destroyed.
  • Detection of sea skimmed missile at 40km the new T0 (assuming the missile is already now in its supersonic speed when detected)
  • Immediately Barak 8 is fired time lapsed 15 seconds
  • Sea skimmer assume again Mach 3 (Brahmos is mach 2.8) travelling at 3375 km/hr or 56.25 km per min or 0.9375km/sec
  • So in 15 seconds before barak 8 is fired, the sea skimmer missile travels 14 km inwards and is now 26km away from the ship
  • Barak 8 engages the hostile in approx 16 seconds where barak 8 travels 10.88 km whereas the hostile at mach 3 travels inwards by approx 15 km and is shot down
  • Implies the barak8 shot down the missile at ~11km from the ship
• End to end calculation
  • Detection at new To = 40km
  • Detection, Warning, Authorization of shoot down and firing = 15 seconds and hostile is now at 26km from ship
  • Engagement in 15+16 = 31 seconds from T0 at 11 km from the ship

The above is a hypothetical example and variables may change the reaction time smaller.
In the scenario mentioned, the efficacy of Barak8 itself for supersonic targets is enough and even Barak8 standard type is not using the full extent of its range. It can use the same if the hostile aircraft and missiles travels at speed mentioned below

View attachment 283662

I am not even considering that aircraft and hostile missile may exhibit high G turns and try to avoid interception making reaction time smaller and more closer to ship


Thus, here based on the above approximate guesstimation, the 2248 radar detection for LO targets will limits the performance to the Barak 8 standard version for higher speed hostiles (aircraft LO types lower altitude and engagement distance). The same is also seen for sea skimming missiles detection (i considered upto hypersonic 5 mach)

The extended version or Barak 8 ER will need LO aircraft at low altitude detection in much excess of present assumed 150 km but rather the 250km for standard LO birds and other higher altitude detection at more of 350-400km range

@Vauban @Abingdonboy @anant_s @AUSTERLITZ @MilSpec and others
Pls correct me if i am wrong in concluding the limitation of 2248 for LO aircraft low altitude flying interception for barak 8 standard version and for detecting sea skimming missiles at 40 km implying the Barak8 is never used to its full potential.
The pinpoint interception is fine but design for longer range and effectively not able to due to limitation of system detection is what i am trying to point out.

BTW i dont know what other option we have other than perhaps getting IAI help in increasing 2248 range for LO detection

excellent analysis.
MF STAR radar coupled with Barak 8 will give an exceptional protection to large naval ships.
I guess INS Vikramaditya will be amongst the first in line to get Barak 8 along with Kolkata class destroyers.
Navy really continues to impress.

 

[Force Awakens]

sometimes a silent nod is enough response what else you want from people? come and troll you over hygiene and inability to keep little one under the zips? thus spoiling every other thread?

Well every body has right to opinion.

 

[faithfulguy]

sometimes a silent nod is enough response what else you want from people? come and troll you over hygiene and inability to keep little one under the zips? thus spoiling every other thread?

Indians want you to be Inawe like as if they had landed their astronauts on the moon...

Their sound like that... Easily satisfied people. If they brag about long delayed project that is obsolete at induction, can you imaging how much bragging if they induct an Israeli missile with a joint venture label. Now you can see.

Well every body has right to opinion.

Everyone has a right to brag,.. You mean.

 

[Mo12]

Indians want you to be Inawe like as if they had landed their astronauts on the moon...

Their sound like that... Easily satisfied people. If they brag about long delayed project that is obsolete at induction, can you imaging how much bragging if they induct an Israeli missile with a joint venture label. Now you can see.



Everyone has a right to brag,.. You mean.

Hope you have a nice day as well.