Lieutenant General Dalbir Singh Suhag named new Army chief

[Abingdonboy]

what is wrong with this ascension is the timing .

UPA government has no moral authority to name successor of current army chief when it is lame-duck and when it's matter of few hours to days when new government will be installed ..

same government took several months to fill in the vacancy of Navy chief ...and why they are in hurry to name successor to Army chief ???

The accession of the Navy chief and Army chief are two very different issues bro. In the IN's case Mr Joshi left PREMATURELY and he himself nominated Admiral RK Dhowan as his immediate replacement in his resignation letter. The months it took to sort out the IN CNS issue was because Vice-Admiral Shekhar Sinha was senior to RK Dhowan BUT it was Vice-Admiral Shekhar Sinha, commander of the Western fleet, under whom mishap after mishap had taken place which had pi$$ed off both the CNS (then Joshi) and the MoD and it was Vice-Admiral Shekhar Sinha who had been reprimanded ad made to march up in ceremonial dress to the IN's senior leadership ( a form of reprimand used on lower officers mostly and almost unheard of for such senior officers) as a result of these mishaps. Very rightly the MoD felt that Vice-Admiral Shekhar Sinha was not up to the task of running the IN and correcting the issues that he himself had let occur under his watch up to then. For this RK Dhowan was made the CNS quite rightly too.


As for the IA COAS matter it is all together different and more straight foreword if you understand how the COAS selection process takes place- the senior most officer at the time of the COAS's retirement. As Bikram Singh retires it is Dulbir Singh who is without question the senior most officer in the IA and should be made the next COAS- open and shut case.Dulbir Singh has been in line to become the next COAS for many many years now and everyone has known it, as such he has been groomed to take over the COAS position and will be up to speed and the most qualified man to becomes COAS. Now if, and perhaps this is what the current GoI are trying to avoid, the BJP govt comes in and delays the accession process by even a few months the entire accession process will be thrown out of the window as Dulbir Singh may have reach the point of retirement himself (in the IA every 24 months or so after you turn 35 you either promote or must retire) and will have to leave the IA unless promoted to COAS. This will disrupt the ENTIRE COAS accession line- the general that was set to become COAS after Dulbir Singh and the general that was to become COAS after that guy and so on. It would be VERY disruptive to the entire IA top brass and the IA as a whole which is just not want you or anyone should want. Those that will lose out (right now in line to become the COAS) will be VERY put out and being in very senior positions in the IA will compromise the efficacy of the entire IA.

Dulbir Singh has been in line to become the COAS for a LONG time now and the BJP is on the verge of creating a $hit storm because VK Singh is acting the way he is for reasons only he knows.

I wouldn't credit the UPA ex government with any credibility to do the right thing or with a moral stand, so doing the right thing does not go down well with the hurry in naming a new COAS on their last day.

I'm sorry but you can't write off the ENTRIE GoI like this. They have been running your country for the last 10 years and you can't claim everything they have ever done has been against India's interests. They do make SOME right choices. Even a broken clock is right 2 times a day....

 

[Indo-guy]

The accession of the Navy chief and Army chief are two very different issues bro. In the IN's case Mr Joshi left PREMATURELY and he himself nominated Admiral RK Dhowan as his immediate replacement in his resignation letter. The months it took to sort out the IN CNS issue was because Vice-Admiral Shekhar Sinha was senior to RK Dhowan BUT it was Vice-Admiral Shekhar Sinha, commander of the Western fleet, under whom mishap after mishap had taken place which had pi$$ed off both the CNS (then Joshi) and the MoD and it was Vice-Admiral Shekhar Sinha who had been reprimanded ad made to march up in ceremonial dress to the IN's senior leadership ( a form of reprimand used on lower officers mostly and almost unheard of for such senior officers) as a result of these mishaps. Very rightly the MoD felt that Vice-Admiral Shekhar Sinha was not up to the task of running the IN and correcting the issues that he himself had let occur under his watch up to then. For this RK Dhowan was made the CNS quite rightly too.


As for the IA COAS matter it is all together different and more straight foreword if you understand how the COAS selection process takes place- the senior most officer at the time of the COAS's retirement. As Bikram Singh retires it is Dulbir Singh who is without question the senior most officer in the IA and should be made the next COAS- open and shut case.Dulbir Singh has been in line to become the next COAS for many many years now and everyone has known it, as such he has been groomed to take over the COAS position and will be up to speed and the most qualified man to becomes COAS. Now if, and perhaps this is what the current GoI are trying to avoid, the BJP govt comes in and delays the accession process by even a few months the entire accession process will be thrown out of the window as Dulbir Singh may have reach the point of retirement himself (in the IA every 24 months or so after you turn 35 you either promote or must retire) and will have to leave the IA unless promoted to COAS. This will disrupt the ENTIRE COAS accession line- the general that was set to become COAS after Dulbir Singh and the general that was to become COAS after that guy and so on. It would be VERY disruptive to the entire IA top brass and the IA as a whole which is just not want you or anyone should want. Those that will lose out (right now in line to become the COAS) will be VERY put out and being in very senior positions in the IA will compromise the efficacy of the entire IA.

Dulbir Singh has been in line to become the COAS for a LONG time now and the BJP is on the verge of creating a $hit storm because VK Singh is acting the way he is for reasons only he knows.


I'm sorry but you can't write off the ENTRIE GoI like this. They have been running your country for the last 10 years and you can't claim everything they have ever done has been against India's interests. They do make SOME right choices. Even a broken clock is right 2 times a day....

One can go on and on to defend but it is a common sense that UPA government has no moral authority to announce successor of current army chief when it is lame duck and virtually on death bed ....

You may love UPA, Congress , Man Mohan Singh ...but I am not obliged to share your views ...




Even if broken clock is right 2 times a day ...NOBODY USES A BROKEN CLOCK

( UNLESS YOU ARE MADLY IN LOVE WITH A BROKEN CLOCK ) !!!

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Indo-guy @illusion8 bros, why is the Congress so insistent on making Dulbir Singh COAS? Well it's as simple as this- ANY delay caused to the COAS accession process even if its a matter of weeks but likely longer as the BJP aren't going to make this priority 1 when entering office, WILL have a tangible effect on the issue. As i've said, in the Indian Mil after the age of 35 every 24 months it is either be promoted or you are to retire. Now if Dulbir Singh's promotion is stalled by any prolonged period he will have to retire meaning the man who is best qualified to take over as COAS having been given all the essential briefs, having been training and making himself ready for the COAS post for the past 2 years will be heading out of the IA and some unknown General will be made COAS but he will be thrust into the post will ZERO preparation for the post and by the time he ties to get up to speed most of his tenure as COAS will be done- remember Dulbir Singh has been preparing to take over the 1.2 million man army for a LONG LONG time, you think another General come jus tome along with no such preparations and be as effective as Dulbir Singh would be? Come on now.

In short the promotion of Dulbir Singh to COAS IS time critical, there isn't time for the BJP and VKS to faff about. The GoI has made their case to the Election Commission and the EC have okayed this so move on.


So back to your original questions, why is the GoI making this decision and pushing it though as if it's important? Hmm i don't know because maybe the effectiveness of the Indian Army is important- what do you think?

 

[Indo-guy]

@Indo-guy @illusion8 bros, why is the Congress so insistent on making Dulbir Singh COAS? Well it's as simple as this- ANY delay caused to the COAS accession process even if its a matter of weeks but likely longer as the BJP aren't going to make this priority 1 when entering office, WILL have a tangible effect on the issue. As i've said, in the Indian Mil after the age of 35 every 24 months it is either be promoted or you are to retire. Now if Dulbir Singh's promotion is stalled by any prolonged period he will have to retire meaning the man who is best qualified to take over as COAS having been given all the essential briefs, having been training and making himself ready for the COAS post for the past 2 years will be heading out of the IA and some unknown General will be made COAS but he will be thrust into the post will ZERO preparation for the post and by the time he ties to get up to speed most of his tenure as COAS will be done- remember Dulbir Singh has been preparing to take over the 1.2 million man army for a LONG LONG time, you think another General come jus tome along with no such preparations and be as effective as Dulbir Singh would be? Come on now.

In short the promotion of Dulbir Singh to COAS IS time critical, there isn't time for the BJP and VKS to faff about. The GoI has made their case to the Election Commission and the EC have okayed this so move on.


So back to your original questions, why is the GoI making this decision and pushing it though as if it's important? Hmm i don't know because maybe the effectiveness of the Indian Army is important- what do you think?

stop justifying absolutely obscene step taken by UPA government .

Is Indian army in crisis ....that government has to name successor of current army chief in such hurried manner ...

these retards took several months to name new Navy chief ...which was much more important and urgent .


They similarly tried to instigate judiciary probe panel against modi ..which backfired because allies backtracked ...

There is pattern to UPA decisions ...

I do not understand why you are so blinded that you can't see their machinations ...rather you dare to go on defending their moves ....

 

[Abingdonboy]

One can go on and on to defend but it is a common sense that UPA government has no moral authority to announce successor of current army chief when it is lame duck and virtually on death bed ....

You may love UPA, Congress , Man Mohan Singh ...but I am not obliged to share your views ...




Even if broken clock is right 2 times a day ...NOBODY USES A BROKEN CLOCK

( UNLESS YOU ARE MADLY IN LOVE WITH A BROKEN CLOCK ) !!!

Please bro, don't devalue this conversation into a Congress vs BJP issue. I am neither a Congress supporter nor a BJP one, i can see the pros and cons of both and I am perfectly ready to see the back of the UPA-2 and a BJP govt come in who has promised exactly what India needs- development and high economic growth.But that is neither here nor there.

As the GoI (at the time the decision was made) they DO have the moral authority to make this call otherwise they couldn't make it could they?

The BJP (because of VK Singh's agenda) have politicised what really is an open and shut accession and it would have been made days if not WEEKS ago had the BJP not got the EC involved.


It just so happens the COAS's retirement date came during the election process, that is very unfortunate and as a result all this nonsense has been stirred up.

Is Indian army in crisis ....that government has to name successor of current army chief in such hurried manner ...
these retards took several months to name new Navy chief ...which was much more important .

Bro I've actually been quite clear why the next COAS's timely appointment is time critical. I've also outlined why the matter of selecting the IN's CNS is an entirely different kettle of fish and as such no comparisons should be made.

 

[Indo-guy]

Please bro, don't devalue this conversation into a Congress vs BJP issue. I am neither a Congress supporter nor a BJP one, i can see the pros and cons of both and I am perfectly ready to see the back of the UPA-2 and a BJP govt come in who has promised exactly what India needs- development and high economic growth.But that is neither here nor there.

As the GoI (at the time the decision was made) they DO have the moral authority to make this call otherwise they couldn't make it could they?

The BJP (because of VK Singh's agenda) have politicised what really is an open and shut accession and it would have been made days if not WEEKS ago had the BJP not got the EC involved.


It just so happens the COAS's retirement date came during the election process, that is very unfortunate and as a result all this nonsense has been stirred up.

what rubbish you are talking about ...legal sanction is not same as moral authority !!!

As government they have executive right to name army successor ...but as a lame duck government when it is matter of few days when new government will be sworn in ...they have no moral authority to take such an important executive decision ...just to forestall possible decision by next government .

Both BJP, Ret Gen VK Saraswat as well as UPA have politicized this issue .

But UPA as an outgoing government have crossed the moral boundary ....

I do not understand why you are defending them so vehemently ....

 

[Roybot]

I ll have to agree with @Abingdonboy here, General V.K.Singh should let the past go, even if he feels that he was wronged. He needs to start afresh.

 

[Indo-guy]

I ll have to agree with @Abingdonboy here, General V.K.Singh should let the past go, even if he feels that he was wronged. He needs to start afresh.

I do not agree with you .

This not the question of Gen VK Singh or BJP, UPA or Army chief ...

The larger question is politicization of military and constitutional propriety .

and two wrongs can never make it right !!!

Just because Gen VK Singh was wrong and could be wrong does not make UPA decision taken at fag end to be passed as correct ....

The decision is morally and politically wrong .

 

[Roybot]

I do not agree with you .

This not the question of Gen VK Singh or BJP, UPA or Army chief ...

The larger question is politicization of military .

and two wrongs can never make it right !!!

Just because Gen VK Singh was wrong and could be wrong does not make UPA decision taken at fag end to be passed as correct ....

The decision is morally and politically wrong .

I agree that the politicization of the army is wrong, but reversing the decision will aggravate the problem even more. As Modi has said, he doesn't believe in vindictive politics, Gen V.K.Singh should follow his lead. Try to fix the root of the problem sure, but let it be behind the curtains. A public spat between the Army Generals and Ministers will be very bad for the morale of the Army and the country.

 

[Abingdonboy]

what rubbish you are talking about ...legal sanction is not same as moral authority !!!

As government they have executive right to name army successor ...but as a lame duck government when it is matter of few days when new government will be sworn in ...they have no moral authority to take such an important executive decision ...just to forestall possible decision by next government .

Both BJP, Ret Gen VK Saraswat as well as UPA have politicized this issue .

But UPA as an outgoing government have crossed the moral boundary ....

I do not understand why you are defending them so vehemently ....

The moral authority pat is very subjective and entirely irrelevant as it is about if they have the sanction to do so and they DO being the GoI.


Tell me who has politicised this issue, the Congress who was simply going to let the matter take its own course and the man who has been in line to become the COAS for DECADES, and thus has been groomed to do so and is perfectly up to speed on the role. to become COAS or the BJP who has objected to Dulbir Singh's accession based on what? Oh that's right nothing more than sour grapes from VK Singh.



Listen to me bro and understand this clearly- I am NO CONGRESS SUPPORTER. But neither am I a BJP supporter as thus I am probably a bit more objective on this topic than you. I wall call the Congress out when they are in the wrong and do- I mean how many times have I bashed AK Antony for his spineless service? But I will also call out the BJP when they are in the wrong and in this instance they have politicised something that didn't need to be politicised and based on literally NOTHING. They could have let it slide but for VK Singh's BS.


All I am concerned about is that the IA gets the best man for the job and right now there is simply no question that Dulbir Singh is the man. How many times do I have to explain to you that Dulbir Singh has been groomed for the role of COAS for YEARS. Do you think that one can simply take command of the 1.2 million man army with ZERO preparation work?? Dulbir Singh has been the Vice Chief to the outgoing COAS Bikram Singh and would have been up to speed on most of the IA's ongoing commitments and issues and such and would have a good grasp on the big picture after having spent the years receiving briefings and visiting different commands across India. Now if the BJP had got their way it was very likely Dulbir Singh would have been out the door and some general that was never intended to become COAS will be in this post and would, it's the truth, be utterly CLUELESS for many many months. The IA simply cannot afford to lose that kind of time and be rudderless for so long. From day 1 Dulbir Singh will be up to speed and be a competent COAS no doubt, an unknown general never meant to be COAS how long will it take him to get a grasp on things? 50 days? 300? ANY delay will hurt the IA, there are decisions to be made, matters to be attended to and direction to be given. You can't have a floundering general in that post for god's sake.


It seems instead of wanting the best for the IA and the country by extension, you and the BJP are too interested in tarnishing the outgoing Congress's image yet further whilst I couldn't care less about politics.

 

[Indo-guy]

I agree that the politicization of the army is wrong, but reversing the decision will aggravate the problem even more. As Modi has said, he doesn't believe in vindictive politics, Gen V.K.Singh should follow his lead. Try to fix the root of the problem sure, but let it be behind the curtains. A public spat between the Army Generals and Ministers will be very bad for the morale of the Army and the country.

and you think this will fix the problem ?

If outgoing government can make executive decision on its last day ..then in coming government can reverse that decision using same Executive authority vested by mandate of people .

You are doing same mistake ....to justify controversial and morally improper decision by UPA with assumption that BJP-NDA -Modi led government will do what UPA believes ...

If NDA government indeed would have shirked away from naming Lt Gen Suhag as army chief under pressure from Ret Gen VK Singh ..it would have been their mistake .

You can't just do right thing by doing wrong thing to prevent another wrong thing .

Buck has to stop somewhere .

But all in all UPA does not have moral authority to take such decision at this stage .

The moral authority pat is very subjective and entirely irrelevant as it is about if they have the sanction to do so and they DO being the GoI.

So you will concur with me that new GOI will have their executive right to name person of their choice as Army chief even if it entails reversing decision by UPA . right ?

 

[Abingdonboy]

Just because Gen VK Singh was wrong and could be wrong does not make UPA decision taken at fag end to be passed as correct ....

You don't seem to be able to grasp this very simple notion bro- the decision was/is TIME CRITICAL. It is going to take weeks if not MONTHS for the next GoI to be installed and up to speed, they are simply not going to make this decision on the COAS within the first few days- if you believe this you are being naive.

Okay so we are looking at, let's say the end of June if we are being generous, for the next GoI to be in the position to make the call, by then Dalbir Singh will be RETIRED, GONE, OUT THE DOOR because, and I've explained this to you multiple times now, in the Indian Mil it is either be PROMOTED OR RETIRE every 24 months after attaining the age of 35. Dalbir Singh's commission is coming to an end. A delay of even a few weeks to his promotion will see the most qualified man for COAS post leaving the IA and then you are left with a very VERY messy situation in the IA not only do you have to appoint some one who was never meant to be the COAS as such and take the penalties of all that that I have outlined above but you also disrupt the ENITRE COAS accession process because, you see, the next COAS and the one after him and the one after him and the one after him are already known and will begin being groomed but you appoint anyone other than Dulbir and the entire system shuts down.

This is EXACTLY what VK Singh was trying to do by hanging on for another year as COAS and denying Bikram Singh and his successors the post of COAS and this is EXACTLY what he is STILL playing at.

 

[Indo-guy]

It seems instead of wanting the best for the IA and the country by extension, you and the BJP are too interested in tarnishing the outgoing Congress's image yet further whilst I couldn't care less about politics.

since when IA became dependent on one person ?
and what if god-forbid Lt Gen Suhag passes away ....then what will GOI and IA is going to do...request GOD to send back the BEST MAN to lead IA ???

 

[Roybot]

and you think this will fix the problem ?

If outgoing government can make executive decision on its last day ..then in coming government can reverse that decision using same Executive authority vested by mandate of people .

You are doing same mistake ....to justify controversial and morally improper decision by UPA with assumption that BJP-NDA -Modi led government will do what UPA believes ...

If NDA government indeed would have shirked away from naming Lt Gen Suhag as army chief under pressure from Ret Gen VK Singh ..it would have been their mistake .

You can't just do right thing by doing wrong thing to prevent another wrong thing .

Buck has to stop somewhere .

But all in all UPA does not have moral authority to take such decision at this stage .

Yes agreed the buck has to stop somewhere, but the Military should not be dragged in to this political one-upmanship. Sure bring in measures to make ensure no other government is able to pull this off again in the future, but don't politicize the issue further to stop the politicizing of the military! Nothing will be more ironic. And for that to happen we need General V.K.Singh(if he does become the Minister of Defence) to let go of the past.

 

[Indo-guy]

You don't seem to be able to grasp this very simple notion bro- the decision was/is TIME CRITICAL. It is going to take weeks if not MONTHS for the next GoI to be installed and up to speed, they are simply not going to make this decision on the COAS within the first few days- if you believe this you are being naive.

Okay so we are looking at, let's say the end of June if we are being generous, for the next GoI to be in the position to make the call, by then Dalbir Singh will be RETIRED, GONE, OUT THE DOOR because, and I've explained this to you multiple times now, in the Indian Mil it is either be PROMOTED OR RETIRE every 24 months after attaining the age of 35. Dalbir Singh's commission is coming to an end. A delay of even a few weeks to his promotion will see the most qualified man for COAS post leaving the IA and then you are left with a very VERY messy situation in the IA not only do you have to appoint some one who was never meant to be the COAS as such and take the penalties of all that that I have outlined above but you also disrupt the ENITRE COAS accession process because, you see, the next COAS and the one after him and the one after him and the one after him are already known and will begin being groomed but you appoint anyone other than Dulbir and the entire system shuts down.

This is EXACTLY what VK Singh was trying to do by hanging on for another year as COAS and denying Bikram Singh and his successors the post of COAS and this is EXACTLY what he is STILL playing at.

I AM REALLY NOT ABLE TO GRASP
HOW THIS CAN BE TIME CRITICAL ?

Time critical ....you must be joking ?