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JF17 BLK4-----Major Upgrade & Replacement For F16's

@MastanKhan
Buddy i know you mean well but you keep repeating same old thing again and again
All those points you made well they simply are not viable

Aesa Radar is bit bigger than your normal radars few project of mini aesa are in the market so its a vs vs game and you need to change nose of your bird means changing in air frame. Because this beast have problem it gets extremely hot
Extending wings and more hard points changes in tanks and wheel its almost creating a new platform and you also need a better powerful engine to do that so evolution of bird is a slow process you cant keep changing your priorities every time you see some thing flashy
As for your Kill Switch crying lets just your do called myth is reality i don't see pakistan going to war with uncle sam in near future
No matter what happens uncle sam wont use this option until paf is directly fighting us military .
All the things you are talking will make thunder a 50+m a pop which it was never meant to be

As for f16 can you put any name of any bird in market in the same price range gives same capabilities to paf
1st getting cheap 2 well proven 3 easy spares 4 available of infrastructure 5 tech knowledge
And even if worst comes Turkey is also a dependable option
 
it better to go ahead with blk 4
some features of blk 3 are aesa radar , uprated rd93 engine producing 98kn and greater use of composites around 30-40% and can carry payload up to 5000kgs and some rumors about 8 hardpoints
but blk 4 i should say it must have an engine producing 125-130kn and more payload around 7000kgs and aerodynamics improved to considerable extent

@MastanKhan
Buddy i know you mean well but you keep repeating same old thing again and again
All those points you made well they simply are not viable

Aesa Radar is bit bigger than your normal radars few project of mini aesa are in the market so its a vs vs game and you need to change nose of your bird means changing in air frame. Because this beast have problem it gets extremely hot
Extending wings and more hard points changes in tanks and wheel its almost creating a new platform and you also need a better powerful engine to do that so evolution of bird is a slow process you cant keep changing your priorities every time you see some thing flashy
As for your Kill Switch crying lets just your do called myth is reality i don't see pakistan going to war with uncle sam in near future
No matter what happens uncle sam wont use this option until paf is directly fighting us military .
All the things you are talking will make thunder a 50+m a pop which it was never meant to be

As for f16 can you put any name of any bird in market in the same price range gives same capabilities to paf
1st getting cheap 2 well proven 3 easy spares 4 available of infrastructure 5 tech knowledge
And even if worst comes Turkey is also a dependable option
that why blk 3 is going to have some airframe changes to aesa my freind and to carry extra load
 
This is a better choice for the PAF for the next 30 years:

134326ok4y53700wm606n3.jpg.thumb.jpg


v2.0 due out soon。

estimated per unit cost ?


Your Dp :blink:
 
Hi,

I wrote this article a few hours ago and mailed it to dawn and express tribune----but looking at this major news coming out on dawn that we need 190 aircraft by 2020---here is the article

The threat of the " anytime sanctions during 30 years into future " by the U S senator on the F16's, must be negated by the pakistan air force. This is just an eye opener kind of disclaimer given by U S senator Corker to Pakistan in good american faith.

And as always----the U S has told Pakistan upfront in what maybe coming anytime in the future if things go awry. By now---we should be able to understand what may trigger the sanctions by the indian dominated U S congress and senate. It maybe be an attack on the U S soil by terrorists of Pakistan origin---an attack on the Indian soil by terrorists and other similar acts.

The pakistanis may chose to disagree or agree on who the terrorists maybe and what their agenda
could be---but the fact will remain that it may result in sanctions.

To confront that and to take charge of the problem---the paf needs to think out of the box and make some serious changes to the design of the JF17 aircraft on a fastrak to combat the issue.

It needs to look at the size of the Japanese F2 fighter aircraft in comparison to the size of the F16. They designed a slightly larger aircraft that could carry more weight of weapons than the F16 and other equipment and added an aesa fire control radar.

The Japanese are a small nation----and they know that they have an enemy with a larger air force. The first batch of the F2's may have some issues but the later ones did well--. The idea behind it is extremely thoughtful---and that is where the needs of pakistan air force, meet the design challenges and abilities of the current JF17's against their major adversary.

The JF17 program has entered a juncture where it needs to plan for where it needs to be in the next 5 years time frame for its BLK4 aircraft to meet the needs of the un-sanctioned and unhindered defence of pakistani air space---keeping in focus the ever looming open threat made by the U S senator a few days ago and to replace the F16 BLK 52 and take the capabilities of paf to the next level without procuring anymore F16's new or used / refurbished.

The capabilities and capacity of weapons load and electronics also needs to be re-assessed along with the physical structure changes to the aircraft----relocation of current wheels with taller ones---larger power plant---larger wing area and use of composite material to reduce the weight.
The target for the aircraft in weight carrying capacity needs to be in the range of 7000-8000 KG with at least 9-11 hard points.

And as we discussed---to meet the challenge, the size of the aircraft needs to be similar to the japanese F2---which is a slightly larger aircraft than the F16 with a 25% larger wing span.

The wheels of the JF 17 need to be moved outwards like those on the Gripen NG---and it needs to have TALLER wheels for more ground clearance---so that there should not be any problems in mounting heavy air launched cruise missiles like the Hatf V111---anti ship missile like the CM 400 AKG or the air launch version of the Babur cruise missile.

The re-positioning of the wheels must allow it to carry extra fuel in the wing fuel tanks and extending into the side of the main frame as well just like the Gripen NG.The aircraft must also have conformal fuel tanks as well as aerial refuelling capabilities with a hidden refueller receptacle like that on the Tornado.

The wings must support 2 ALCM's or 2 anti ship missiles in the weight range of 1000-1250 KG each and 2 fuel tanks along with the conformal fuel tanks.

In a fighter interceptor mode, it needs to have the ability to carry 8 BVR missiles and 4 WVR missiles on its pylons including 2 fuel tanks plus the conformal tanks if needed depending on the mission. It should also have the ability of buddy refuelling which means that along with conformal fuel tanks---it would be carrying 4 fuel tanks on the wing pylons to refuel other aircraft as an option.

The design of the fuel tanks must be reconfigured and streamline---instead of the round tanks---they must be rectangular / squarish like those on the Gripen NG to give more fuel capacity to each tank and make it more aerodynamic as well.

The aircraft will have a dedicated IRST and off course a potent fire control Aesa radar with at least 1000 T / R modules---high off bore missile launch capability---rear missile launch detection---jammer pod---sniper type pod and all other paraphernalia and electronic gadgetry that makes a first grade fighter interceptor and strike aircraft of the 4.5 gen class---.

The two seater version should be at least 1/4th of the production right from the start---. For the engine---in 2-3 years time there will be many an options available either the chinese version---the russian or the european engine---.

Also the chinese PL15 would be a mature BVR missile by that time and so would be the chinese HOBS ( high off bore sight ) missile as well. This is not taking into account what other items maybe on offer from manufacturers other than the chinese.

Defence equipment manufacturers like Turkish Aselsan---So. African Denel and Italian Selex need to be on board to provide an option for electronics and weapons packages for paf and for other nations who want to buy this aircraft.

This aircraft would basically take over from where the BLK 52 left----it will negate the need for any further induction of the F16's into the paf in a very short period of time and reduce the liability of sanctions to a ZERO.

There would be no need to spend more money for any new F16's or any used / re-furbished F16's either in the near future. Paf must move away from teh F16 once for all.

Pakistan air force and pakistanis should be really weary of the video leaked by wikileaks that showed the british and the U S intel agencies sabotaging the Israeli drone and the Israeli F16---. The capability of these agencies to log into a live feed of the Israeli drone Heron and to show the live feed of an Israeli F16 HUD is something to be very concerned about.

This basically leads into the world of the never ending rumors of " kill switches ". The bottom line over here is that if those agencies can do it to the Israelis---then they can do it to the pakistani F16's as well---and if they have that much control over what is happening inside the cockpit---then there is no reason not to believe that they can control other electronic functions of the aircraft as well when they desire.

So---in reality---the sanctions of the FUTURE are going to be different from the sanctions of the PAST.
Whereas the sanctions of the past were a stoppage to the supply of parts---the sanctions of the future would include that and would also include the sanctions of the ELECTRONIC type as well---in the form of giving denial for the aircraft engine to operate at full power---to negating any missile launch or bomb drop---or curtailing the use of the instrument panel to just shutting down the aircraft.

The reader should understand that in the U S---even car dealers have that technology of kill switches available to them that they sometimes install on cars. These cars are sold to customers with bad credit and on not recieving payments in time and with a warning to the customer the vehicle operation can be stopped just like that by putting a code into the system.

On newer cars---you can call the factory and have them remotely unlock the doors of the cars. Many a high end vehicles have had their brakes hacked---power steering hacked---( current power steerings are not hydraulic powered but powered by an electric motor )---air conditioning systems hacked---engines hacked remotely thru the internet connection that the vehicle has.

So---if there is a belief for some in pakistan that kill switches are not real---well then let them live in illusion ---for others---it is time to act.
Thank you,
Sincerely,
AKA MastanKhan
Defence.pk

@Khafee @Viper0011. @Irfan Baloch
To bring such changes to jf17 platform will entail major redesign which Will still be a compromise. Why not jointly develop a fighter jet in collobration with Turkey and Turkey has already invited for their fifth gen fighter jet program. Jf17 should be updated with more powerful version of Rd engine and also Aesa and EW suite. Maybe more composite could be used for block 3 and later versions.

Do
Block IV won't be coming ....... !!! there is a Twin engine very low RCS aircraft on drawing board .... Hope so It gets through all hurdles ...!!!! :-)
Do you know what you are saying sir?
Are you sure?
 
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there is a stealth platform now i don't know it will become a part of Thunder project and called Block IV or will be a separate platform but It will be a Twin Engine very Low RCS jet
Are you sure you are not confusing that XYZ aircraft with FC31???
 
Unless someone finds out what the hell is going with PAF and their love for the F-16s, nothing is going to change on ground. F-16 is a capable fighter jet there is no denying but when it comes severely handicapped and by handicapped i dont mean the kill switches, i mean the threat of sanctions which could simply ground the entire fleet, all other points of how superior it is becomes moot.
Pakistan needs something that is sanctioned prove and up and ready when duty calls. I would go even further and say that PAF after making the mirage deal error made another grave mistake and this time it was for the J-10s. Imagine had PAF acquired J-10s when it were offered during Musharraf time, not only would PAF have familiarize itself with the jet 10 years down the lane but also it would have been receiving upgrades at the same rate JF-17 is. Plus since PAF would have had ample time to see the plane inside out, they would also be in a much better position to give their inputs into the whole J-10 program.
That would have presented a unique opportunity for PAF to remain engaged in the development process of not just JF-17 but also J-10 and gaining valuable knowledge and getting ready to absorb future technology such as a 5th generation fighter jet.
@MastanKhan


This 8 F-16 deal is actually infavour of America rather in Pakistan. Why? Beause it will keep the F16 prodution line afloat and jobs associated with it. It is NOT free as some people are getting excited about it. we are still paying 38million a pop to Lookheed while is rest of money is going to LM from American government. For American defense production companies, Pakistan is just a excuse to mint more money not only from their government , which they will happily obliged as we all know how much these companies exercise influence in American power corridors, but also from us as well. With this background, you hear those American congressmen bitching about Pakistan this, Pakistan that, like bloody first wife, I would say fu** you. At the end of the day, as congressman Corker said, these lousy machines would be subjected to sanctions in future if needed be. Icing on the cake was the news item where LM very openly expressed its desire to move the production line of F-16s to India! So when you get sanctioned in future by uncle Sam, all you have to do is to knock on your neighbor's door for spare parts. How fu**** convenient!

More F16s for PAF doesn't make any sense as far as our future emerging threats are concerned. The only sense one can make out of this is that "F-sola lobby" within PAF is minting some serious dosh. It will be very interesting if NAB can scrutinize this particular deal.
 
o_O My bad I shouldn't have told this here :( as no one ever believed me here:undecided: From morning I am telling this there is a twin engine very low RCS jet on the drawing board now J-31 is not on drawing board is it ??? when It is said a new low RCS Jet is on drawing board means something new is being planned and I een told no its not J-31 or it's upgrade
Still everyone is thinking I m confusing that plane with J-31 may bad I shouldn't had told this here even after getting permission ........ sorry
Thing is ..................... you are making such sort of claim which is not even discussed once on forum. A joint heavy aircraft just like Jf17. And you are mentioning few things like

1: It is duel engine heavy aircraft
2: Reduced RCS
3: Heavy payload.

So making such claims will surely create doubts and curiosity at the same times.
As far as I remember, your father is in Kamra, right? So I guess I should trust you................... but if you really know ''something'' then I recommend you to discuss it with Mods first and then break any silence here. Its not appropriate to disclose any thing which can hit country interests...............so plz first co operate with mods :-)

@waz @Irfan Baloch @Horus @Windjammer @balixd @Oscar

guys, deal this matter plz..................................we have some classified news......................:blink:
 
The wheels of the JF 17 need to be moved outwards like those on the Gripen NG---and it needs to have TALLER wheels for more ground clearance---so that there should not be any problems in mounting heavy air launched cruise missiles like the Hatf V111---anti ship missile like the CM 400 AKG or the air launch version of the Babur cruise missile.
Agreed ....Thunder looks like a ducky on the tarmac ...thanks to Chinese concept of keeping the jets glued to the ground !

In a fighter interceptor mode, it needs to have the ability to carry 8 BVR missiles and 4 WVR missiles on its pylons including 2 fuel tanks plus the conformal tanks if needed depending on the mission. It should also have the ability of buddy refuelling which means that along with conformal fuel tanks---it would be carrying 4 fuel tanks on the wing pylons to refuel other aircraft as an option.
Kuch ziada nai hogaya ?
 
Hi,

I need to thank @Quwa for re-igniting the impulse to write about a physical change in the JF17---. Even though I had written about it---but a few lines before.

A change is always ' in relation to what '---why I need it and what it will do for me---what are the costs and what are the benefits.

So---the F16 crisis brought out more material for consideration. The seriousness of the issue has not hit home yet---.

The paf took it as casually as they did the murder of 17 French engineers in karachi and thought nothing would stop their deal for the electronics package.

The purpose of a discussion is to ask for the max and then settle for something between the minimum and max ---keeping in mind the financial constraints.

The JF 17 would be modified---how much and how far will they go is a different story---. But it has to change.

When you declare someone a pariah---you start to demonize them---you keep talking bad things about them all the time---till people start believing that is the truth---others---who maybe future victims would not want to believe that it could happen to them---because they are smarter than us.

So---that is what has happened with pakistan---you people have not fought back this drama created by the U S---so don't even think that other nations would feel vulnerable to electronic sanctions---.
 

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