JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 2]
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Arsalan
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well it is debatable that it should carry 4 BVRs
Look SU-30 is a strike plane not an interceptor when you are entering the enemy air space expect more numbers of interceptor than you so thats why it carries more BVRs.I am sure PAF would hve done a cost and benifit analysis before goin with7 HPs
i have to agree on this point that the JF and the Su30 are for different roles!
actually my concern is thatif in a case it is in an encounter with a Su30 then the Su will be firing 2 or 3 missiles at JF with JF only having the option of 1! anyway your point is also correct that in case of interceptor the Su30 will be encountered with multiple JF and can have the liberty of shooting more missiles even if one JF fires only one missile!
actually the point of my emphasis is that it wont be so difficult! we must increase the use on composite material, this is planned for the block II. moreover in an interceptor role the JF may not be required to fly on full external fule load so if we can carry two fuel tanks with a BVR on center or one fule tank on center and two BVR, as per the mission requirment it will do fine for us and we may not have to increase hardpoints! still we do need on more hard opoint atlest to carry targeting pod or FLIR! it may be like the one on J10 fuselage almost under the cockpit! we can not affor to consume one hard point for a targeting pod and fly with just six remainig specially as in this case we will be carrying bombs for CAS and atleast two missiles so it wont do enought for CAS mission with four pods remaiing without any fuel tanks!
what do you think of it??
regards!
owais.usmani
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First Pakistani-Built JF-17 To Fly by Year's End
By Usman Ansari
ISLAMABAD - Pakistan's Chief of the air staff, Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman, told graduates at the thirty-eighth Combat Commander's Course at PAF Base Mushaf, Sargodha, that the first Pakistani-built JF-17 Thunder multirole combat aircraft will begin construction this week, and fly by the end of the year, according to the Associated Press of Pakistan.
The first operational squadron of JF-17s is based at Peshawar and is set to fully enter service by the end of the year. The Peshawar-based JF-17s initially are to be tasked with the air-to-air role, with air-to-ground capabilities being retrofitted at a later date.
However, these aircraft were manufactured in China and flown to Pakistan as air freight before they were reassembled. The Pakistani-built aircraft initially will have some components delivered from China, but with increasing indigenous content as production progresses. It is planned that the second batch of JF-17s will have a large degree of Western sourced systems, reducing Chinese input further.
However, according to retired Air Commodore Kaiser Tufail, domestic JF-17 production heralds for Pakistan, "cutting-edge technology in the hands of Pakistani engineers and technicians."
He further stated, "Since the production is being done at Pakistan Aeronautical Complex [an Air Force outfit], it also helps the Air Force gain first-hand experience in aircraft production, which is not a bad thing at all, even though aircraft production has usually been a civilian domain worldwide."
Domestic production also means that in the long term, potential upgrades would be implemented faster due to reduced bureaucratic red tape from dealing with foreign companies, especially if aircraft had to be sent overseas.
A more short-term effect, however, would be to boost national morale in seeing "a locally manufactured aircraft taking to the skies," he said.
The program itself is also set to receive a boost from seeing "an all-Pakistani aircraft, rather than a part-Chinese-part-Pakistani one, becoming operational, as there have been some detractors across the border [in India] who have not been able to digest the success of the JF-17 project, particularly when compared to the Tejas Project," he said.
National pride aside, however, Tufail said the most important aspect was that the Air Force will not "have to worry about sanctions when we have production in our hands." This has been the overriding Air Force concern since U.S sanctions nearly crippled the F-16 fleet in the 1990s. With more than 250 JF-17s planned to replace the A-5C, F-7P, Mirage-III, and Mirage 5 combat aircraft, Pakistan's defensive potential is unlikely to be harmed to such a degree whatever the future international political climate.
First Pakistani-Built JF-17 To Fly by Year's End
By Usman Ansari
ISLAMABAD - Pakistan's Chief of the air staff, Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman, told graduates at the thirty-eighth Combat Commander's Course at PAF Base Mushaf, Sargodha, that the first Pakistani-built JF-17 Thunder multirole combat aircraft will begin construction this week, and fly by the end of the year, according to the Associated Press of Pakistan.
The first operational squadron of JF-17s is based at Peshawar and is set to fully enter service by the end of the year. The Peshawar-based JF-17s initially are to be tasked with the air-to-air role, with air-to-ground capabilities being retrofitted at a later date.
However, these aircraft were manufactured in China and flown to Pakistan as air freight before they were reassembled. The Pakistani-built aircraft initially will have some components delivered from China, but with increasing indigenous content as production progresses. It is planned that the second batch of JF-17s will have a large degree of Western sourced systems, reducing Chinese input further.
However, according to retired Air Commodore Kaiser Tufail, domestic JF-17 production heralds for Pakistan, "cutting-edge technology in the hands of Pakistani engineers and technicians."
He further stated, "Since the production is being done at Pakistan Aeronautical Complex [an Air Force outfit], it also helps the Air Force gain first-hand experience in aircraft production, which is not a bad thing at all, even though aircraft production has usually been a civilian domain worldwide."
Domestic production also means that in the long term, potential upgrades would be implemented faster due to reduced bureaucratic red tape from dealing with foreign companies, especially if aircraft had to be sent overseas.
A more short-term effect, however, would be to boost national morale in seeing "a locally manufactured aircraft taking to the skies," he said.
The program itself is also set to receive a boost from seeing "an all-Pakistani aircraft, rather than a part-Chinese-part-Pakistani one, becoming operational, as there have been some detractors across the border [in India] who have not been able to digest the success of the JF-17 project, particularly when compared to the Tejas Project," he said.
National pride aside, however, Tufail said the most important aspect was that the Air Force will not "have to worry about sanctions when we have production in our hands." This has been the overriding Air Force concern since U.S sanctions nearly crippled the F-16 fleet in the 1990s. With more than 250 JF-17s planned to replace the A-5C, F-7P, Mirage-III, and Mirage 5 combat aircraft, Pakistan's defensive potential is unlikely to be harmed to such a degree whatever the future international political climate.
First Pakistani-Built JF-17 To Fly by Year's End
SBD-3
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Yeah it seems a valid point but increasing the payload will compromise the agility and futhermore decrease the TWR let PAF get its hand on M-88 (expected) we will see more hard points on iti have to agree on this point that the JF and the Su30 are for different roles!
actually my concern is thatif in a case it is in an encounter with a Su30 then the Su will be firing 2 or 3 missiles at JF with JF only having the option of 1! anyway your point is also correct that in case of interceptor the Su30 will be encountered with multiple JF and can have the liberty of shooting more missiles even if one JF fires only one missile!
actually the point of my emphasis is that it wont be so difficult! we must increase the use on composite material, this is planned for the block II. moreover in an interceptor role the JF may not be required to fly on full external fule load so if we can carry two fuel tanks with a BVR on center or one fule tank on center and two BVR, as per the mission requirment it will do fine for us and we may not have to increase hardpoints! still we do need on more hard opoint atlest to carry targeting pod or FLIR! it may be like the one on J10 fuselage almost under the cockpit! we can not affor to consume one hard point for a targeting pod and fly with just six remainig specially as in this case we will be carrying bombs for CAS and atleast two missiles so it wont do enought for CAS mission with four pods remaiing without any fuel tanks!
what do you think of it??
regards!
there might also be a situation that some of thunders might perform only ground based mission (as seen when they 1stly replaced the A-5s) carring no A2A armament escorted by interceptor versions
sancho
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You are right, JF can counter MKI only with a numerical advantage, but will it have it? The total number of JF should be 250, nearly same as much as MKI. Even if some MKI squads will be fielded on the western borders, it's not much likely that more than 2 JFs will come on 1 MKI right?i have to agree on this point that the JF and the Su30 are for different roles!
actually my concern is thatif in a case it is in an encounter with a Su30 then the Su will be firing 2 or 3 missiles at JF with JF only having the option of 1! anyway your point is also correct that in case of interceptor the Su30 will be encountered with multiple JF and can have the liberty of shooting more missiles even if one JF fires only one missile!
actually the point of my emphasis is that it wont be so difficult!
JF 17 will be a good fighter and a match for LCA mk1, Bisons, Mirage 2k, Mig 27 and Jags, but upg Mig 29, MMRCA and MKI will be superior in air combats.
I doubt the supremacy in air combat unless the Indians field a BVR weapon with a proven above 95% kill rate. The only way it can be done is to buy from the Americans and get the AMRAAM part of the package.
The JF's drawback would be its loiter time and combat radius. The MKI is on a different level altogether and has a much better ability to loiter on target. Means it can maintain a CAP inside Pakistan for a good time. The JF is not in that class to even compete. Any why should it be, it was built for different requirements.
The JF's drawback would be its loiter time and combat radius. The MKI is on a different level altogether and has a much better ability to loiter on target. Means it can maintain a CAP inside Pakistan for a good time. The JF is not in that class to even compete. Any why should it be, it was built for different requirements.
SBD-3
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selex has offered vixen 500E AESA was reportedly on offer for PAF
http://www.selex-sas.com/EN/Common/files/SELEX_Galileo/Products/Vixen_500E.pdf
http://www.selex-sas.com/EN/Common/files/SELEX_Galileo/Products/Vixen_500E.pdf
Owais
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AESA will make it costly and there is no need of AESA in light plane when we have AWACS support. future warrants may have PESA redar with more powerful engine
Tempest II
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Do you know/have and can you post specifications and timelines for each tranche?
Arsalan
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it do not really matters, the project have been quite cheap uptil now as there were no failuers, set backs and delays therefore it wont be a bad choice to spend a bit more on it and further enhance its abilities! perhaps we can also get some funding by exploiting the world export market and selling a few of these birds. even if unfortunately we are not able to do so in a quick time it will be not bad to spend some more money on the JF and make it a much more better plane!
regards!
Kamakazi 69
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The JF-17 has a power to weight ratio of 0.99.
Is the engine already being pushed to the limit of what it can deliver or is it possible to make it produce more power to pass that magic 1.00 mark?
Is the engine already being pushed to the limit of what it can deliver or is it possible to make it produce more power to pass that magic 1.00 mark?
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