Islamisation fears at top Pakistan university

[Panther 57]

their is never a link made public between these 2 ? if their was some thing would have shown up , or may be never was jamat e har*mi in spot light

TTP, LeJ, JuD definitely have

 

[Panther 57]

Ok even if Quran says Burqa or Covering Face is required.

but why should it be mandatory for all women?

religious books says a lot of things, not everyone needs to follow everyone of those things. I mean following religious to such a great extent is not a common man's job. Isn't it only for the religious scholars and priests to follow religion fully.

Isn't it awkward for everyone if a woman covers her face and comes to work. This is year 2013 and not 1500. Obviously you want women to work and interact freely in today's world and face covering is just a medieval thing not suited to today's world.

Following a religion means discharging its obligation completely. Deviations by individuals are their ommissions. However, obligations have to be interpreted correctly. Likewise, 2013 or 2014 cannot change basics of any religion.

Firstly these Qur'anic verses do not make covering the face compulsory for women. Secondly, to prove that these verses make the covering of women's face compulsory, Mullahs like @Zarvan have to quote an authentic hadith for it, which they don't.


There is no clear-cut authentic hadith to the effect of making the face veil obligatory

On the other hand

The Prophet (pbuh) is reported to have said, "...The Muhrima (a woman in the state of Ihram) should not cover her face, or wear gloves."

(Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 3, Hadith No. 1838)

With regards to the hadith quoted above, some people say that the commandment of the prophet (pbuh) not to cover the face is specifically for the women in the state of Ihram, thus it cannot be used as an evidence because in Ihram certain rules and regulations change. However, the point to be noted here is that the things that are Mustahab (recommended) can be made Haraam (forbidden), like the cutting of nails, even the things that are Mubah (permissible) or Mustahab (recommended) can be made Fard (obligatory), e.g. wearing two pieces of white unsewn cloth is made Fard for a man, while normally it is Mubah (permissible). But anything that is Haraam in the normal course of life can never be made Fard. Hence, if exposing the face is Haraam for women, then how can it be made Fard in Ihraam?

As hadiths have been compiled years after holy prophet, therefore, its authentication has to be guaged to weed out hadiths like " akkay ki piyaz makkay main khanay say insan janati ho jata hai" and words to that effect. Ali ibn abi talib has given a thumb rule that if a hadith is conflicting with basic principle of islam, it is not authentic. Furthermore, rules become more stringent in religious rituals against normal life and not laxed.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Following a religion means discharging its obligation completely. Deviations by individuals are their ommissions. However, obligations have to be interpreted correctly. Likewise, 2013 or 2014 cannot change basics of any religion.


As hadiths have been compiled years after holy prophet, therefore, its authentication has to be guaged to weed out hadiths like " akkay ki piyaz makkay main khanay say insan janati ho jata hai" and words to that effect. Ali ibn abi talib has given a thumb rule that if a hadith is conflicting with basic principle of islam, it is not authentic. Furthermore, rules become more stringent in religious rituals against normal life and not laxed.

That is true . Hadith itself is a secondary source . But in case of Hijab , the obligation of hijab (face covering) for women is not supported by hadith even .
About history of hadith origin :
Islamic History & Archaeology

 

[Mav3rick]

''At Quaid-i-Azam University there are four mosques, but still no bookshop"

Islamabad (AFP) - The Pakistan studies lecturer is in mid-flow when his students stand and rush for the door -- his class interrupted yet again by the call to prayer.

"They won't come back for at least 30 minutes and some of them even decide not to return to class," Sajjad Akhtar said, gathering his notes and sitting down to wait for his students to return.

At Quaid-i-Azam University, rated the best public university in Pakistan and the best Pakistani university in Asia, this is an everyday reality across all academic departments.

The university grants a 15-minute break for prayers but any student is allowed to get up as soon he hears the call to prayer in what critics call a chaotic interruption of academic life.

Who the **** is this ******* who wrote this???? Call to prayer is chaotic interruption???? The nerve of this *******

They say increased Islamisation in Pakistan's top teaching institutes and among the growing middle classes is helping to dumb down academic standards and restrict students' social life.

"At Quaid-i-Azam University there are four mosques, but still no bookshop," says Pervez Hoodbhoy, a nuclear physicist and one of Pakistan's most prominent academics who used to teach there.

And what is the connection b/w a bookshop with 4 mosques???? Why not target a bookshop project instead of relating it to 4 mosques?? And since when has this lack of existence of a bookshop within the campus ever held back students from actually getting books??

Established in 1965 in the new federal capital Islamabad, it was considered a liberal campus until 1977 when controversial military ruler Zia-ul-Haq seized power.

During his 10-year rule, until his death in a plane crash in 1988, Zia embedded a conservative form of Islam into politics and affairs of state, and ushered in sharia law to run alongside the penal code.

Trade unions and student bodies were banned in educational institutions, and Arabic and Islamic studies were made mandatory for all students until university level.

Additional marks were given in exams to students who learned the Koran by heart. Over the subsequent generations, the trend has got deeper and more embedded.

"There are far fewer students today who can sing and dance, recite poetry, or who read novels than 20 years ago," Hoodbhoy told AFP.

I consider myself a liberal Muslim but boy does this piss me off!! Who is this damned parsi to talk about Islam and it's interpretations into liberal and conservative? Maybe he needs a gay, dancing, singing, poetry reciting retarded son but the average Pakistani and overall a Muslim does not!!

"The university is very much like a school for older children, where rote-learning is considered education.

"There's no intellectual excitement, no feeling of discovery, and girls are mostly silent note-takers, you have to prod them to ask questions."

Strolling through the various departments, most female students wear the hijab -- the tight headscarf that hides all their hair and an import from the Middle East -- and none wear jeans.

None dare sit next to a man, a common sight at more liberal privately-run universities which have become the preserve of the elite as schools like Quaid-e-Azam cater to the lower and middle classes.

Though no specific place is allocated for men and women in the central cafeteria, both genders sit as far apart as possible.

Hifza Aftab, a hijab-wearing MBA student, says there is no such thing as a "liberal" girl at the university.

Any young woman who arrives on campus without wearing a hijab or the looser dupatta traditional to Pakistan quickly changes the look in two or three months, she says.

"A liberal girl would get notorious throughout the whole university," she said.

It was not always thus. Jamil Ahmed, who graduated in 1991, told AFP that in his days the hijab was rarely seen and male and female students would mingle.

Hasan Askari, a former professor at Punjab University, said students are becoming increasingly attached to religion and drifting away from rational thinking.

"The increasing Islamisation has affected quality of education as today, teachers stress more on conspiracy theories than logic," he said.

Last year a private school in Lahore dropped human reproduction from the biology syllabus after an outcry in the conservative Urdu-language press claiming it was "obscene".

Quaid-i-Azam University Vice Chancellor Masoom Yasinzai admitted academic standards had slipped over the years but insisted it was a country-wide problem and not to do with the growing focus on religion.

"Here at Quaid-i-Azam University, academic standards are not falling at an alarming rate," he said, adding that the expression "Islamisation" was being used out of context.

"We have given students the freedom to practise their religion and I think practising religion is one's individual choice."

With sectarianism and violence against minorities on the rise in Pakistan, some fear encouraging a religious mindset in universities is storing up problems for the future.

"If you have a very dominant view and very authoritarian worldview which this curriculum is teaching you, that 'You are Muslims, Islam is a good religion and other religions are not good,' that value system will create a social crisis in the society," education analyst Farzana Bari told AFP.

At one of the mosques on campus, a number of religious books are on display on the bookshelves and free for students to take away.

One of them, entitled "Put an end to obscenity" has pictures of a computer, CD player and a drum set on its cover with a red cross on top of each.

The book explains how playing music during marriage ceremonies affects "the next life" and how angels pour melted copper into the ear of anyone who listens to music or the female voice.

At the mosque, cleric Habib-u-Rehman Saleem says floods and earthquakes are God's punishment for gay sex.

"Males started to sleep with males and females started to sleep with females," he tells a group of male students.

"Some people are trying to create an environment like that of the West here, but God willing the students are religious and they will never let any such conspiracy succeed."

Touseef Ahmed Khan, chairman of the Federal Urdu University in Karachi, said he could see no change coming soon.

"A whole generation was Islamised and those who started their academic career during the Zia regime are now retiring from their jobs," he said.

"This phenomenon of Islamisation has been there for three decades, you cannot reverse it in one year -- it will take decades to do so."

Islamisation fears at top Pakistan university - Yahoo News

Man, crap like this does not deserve a place on this forum, even though this forum has its share of crap, this is like the crappiest of them all. Threats like these should be deleted immediately and the posters should be warned!

You may have a point, but its is not as simple as you point.
It may have been ImRAWn Khan's call but in the end, all political parties have agreed in APC!
Now tell me who will ban who?

PTI chief Imran Khan demands govt to allow TTP militants to open office | The Shia Post

As far as presence of Mosque (in QAU) is concerned, it is really a matter of concern but i think it is from older times.
Chearup, all new universities are being built without Mosque.

Great news, isn't it? After all, why must our Muslim born 'brothers' follow Islam when all it will end up doing is make them better human beings and truly deserving of Jannat!

 

[Mav3rick]

Didn't quite realize that wearing 'jeans' - as mentioned in the article is equal to wearing mini skirts in your mind.
Or for that matter, mingling with boys is considered a 'poison to society'.
Or maybe you just needed a reason to bash the liberals and equate them to the true believers(mullah's).

Then again, what do I know. Go Pakistan. Practice true Islam. Islam is the only thing that will save Pakistan.

I was pondering over that statement and concluded that Islam is not here to save Pakistan, it is here to save mankind. Unfortunately it is the mankind that does not seem interested in the saving of itself, but rather interested in the absolute annihilation......so long as it does not affect them directly!

 

[Jaanbaz]

Who the **** is this ******* who wrote this???? Call to prayer is chaotic interruption???? The nerve of this *******





And what is the connection b/w a bookshop with 4 mosques???? Why not target a bookshop project instead of relating it to 4 mosques?? And since when has this lack of existence of a bookshop within the campus ever held back students from actually getting books??





I consider myself a liberal Muslim but boy does this piss me off!! Who is this damned parsi to talk about Islam and it's interpretations into liberal and conservative? Maybe he needs a gay, dancing, singing, poetry reciting retarded son but the average Pakistani and overall a Muslim does not!!





Man, crap like this does not deserve a place on this forum, even though this forum has its share of crap, this is like the crappiest of them all. Threats like these should be deleted immediately and the posters should be warned!



Great news, isn't it? After all, why must our Muslim born 'brothers' follow Islam when all it will end up doing is make them better human beings and truly deserving of Jannat!

Of course honey you are a Liberal Muslim. In Pakistan Liberal Muslims means watch Indian dramas, dance around like clowns at weddings whilst also swearing at evil hindus, jews, usa, qadianis for trying to destroy Land of The Pure.

 

[timetravel]

Following a religion means discharging its obligation completely. Deviations by individuals are their ommissions. However, obligations have to be interpreted correctly. Likewise, 2013 or 2014 cannot change basics of any religion.
.

why should everyone follow? God will see to it that those who do not follow get justice. It's no one job on earth to force others to follow his interpretation. (why I say his interpretation is because everyone has his own interpretation and as obvious one'e own interpretation is always right, while that of other is wrong).

People have not come on earth to just follow God in all their life. Not everyone in a country needs to be a religious scholar. You cannot have 150 million pious religious preachers. People need to live a normal life without the restrictions of a religion, and be able to follow and lead their life in a casual and normal manner. Unless someone wants to enforce a martial type dictatotorship in a country, it will never be possible that people follow all the restrictive and oppressive tenants of any religion in world.

In a free society, people will disregard the harsh provisions of a religion. Only way to enforce a religion completely on people is by use of brute force (Saudi, Talibal etc) and that enforcement is again not based on the acceptance of people, but rather fear of the people.

So even if a state makes its people follow some rules based on voluminous quantity of legislation and fear of punishment for disobeying some rules, this kind of consent is useless. I won't call this sticking to one'e religion when people are made to do it by force rather then by will. This is not religious practice but political oppression.

I do not think so that the God would be very happy with people who do not want to follow some provisions of a religion willfully but just go by them because of fear of punishment. I do not think God wanted forceful slavery.

 

[Mav3rick]

Dont know how much Mullaism is going on as none of my direct circles are affected...but I guess to some degree yes though I see more hatred of Islam day by day thanks to Talibunnies!

Can you read Urdu? This appeared in yesterday's Jang. Let me know if you cannot read Urdu, I will try to find a translation in English, must be somewhere in the English version of Daily JANG.

 

[Dubious]

Can you read Urdu? This appeared in yesterday's Jang. Let me know if you cannot read Urdu, I will try to find a translation in English, must be somewhere in the English version of Daily JANG.

I can read Urdu but to a minimum....I would prefer the English version...thank you

 

[Mav3rick]

Of course honey you are a Liberal Muslim. In Pakistan Liberal Muslims means watch Indian dramas, dance around like clowns at weddings whilst also swearing at evil hindus, jews, usa, qadianis for trying to destroy Land of The Pure.

On the contrary, I consider liberal Muslims to be those who may not follow every direction of their religion, especially daily practice of it. However, those who actually go against Islam and favour daily activities that Islam strictly prohibits are not 'liberal', them I consider the 'munafiqs'!

In Pakistan, most who preach to be liberal are actually 'munafiq'. Hope I have made it quite clear where you stand!

P.S. Neither do I watch Indian dramas nor do I dance. I may not follow my chosen religion down to the core however I do make serious attempts to ensure that I do not go 'against' it!

 

[Jayanta]

ITS ABOUT TIME WE BAN JAMAAT E ISLAMI, JAMIAT ULEMA ISLAM, JAMAIAT AHLE HADITH, JANNAT PAKISTAN PARTY, MUSLIM LEAGUE ZIA, SUNNI TEHREEK, ISLAMI JAMIAT TULEBA, NAWAZ LEAGUE, THESE ARE RELIGIOUS PARTIES USING RELIGION TO SELL THEIR THEIR DIRTY TEA.

BAN THEM ALL TO SAVE PAKISTAN.

Best of Luck...hope you have seen what has happened in Bangladesh.

 

[timetravel]

Of course honey you are a Liberal Muslim. In Pakistan Liberal Muslims means watch Indian dramas, dance around like clowns at weddings whilst also swearing at evil hindus, jews, usa, qadianis for trying to destroy Land of The Pure.

So now is it against the values of a good Muslim to watch Indian dramas or to dance at the wedding of their son's/daughter's?

 

[Panther 57]

why should everyone follow? God will see to it that those who do not follow get justice. It's no one job on earth to force others to follow his interpretation. (why I say his interpretation is because everyone has his own interpretation and as obvious one'e own interpretation is always right, while that of other is wrong).

Discharging of religious obligation is not my requirement but religions requirement. So a person following a religion should discharge. Along side I did mention that omission is by individuals and does not change the principles of a religion, its ones own doing. And I totally agree you, me or for that matter anybody cannot judge about righteousness of other in religion. It has been categorically said by Him that it between the individual and the God himself. Thus, we should refrain from imposing our religion, sect, belief or concepts.

People have not come on earth to just follow God in all their life. Not everyone in a country needs to be a religious scholar. You cannot have 150 million pious religious preachers. People need to live a normal life without the restrictions of a religion, and be able to follow and lead their life in a casual and normal manner. Unless someone wants to enforce a martial type dictatotorship in a country, it will never be possible that people follow all the restrictive and oppressive tenants of any religion in world.

Here I will differ people in this world have come to follow what God has commanded. As per Islam everyone is responsible to do his or her own research in religion and know about divine laws; yes there is no provision of clergy in Islam, unlike other religions. Ever since humans have inhabited the earth, dictatorship of one kind or other has existed and will continue to be. Thus there is no point condemn only those who are imposing THEIR Islamic laws. There is no need for imposing such laws as most of the human interpretations on islam are incorrect, as of now.

So even if a state makes its people follow some rules based on voluminous quantity of legislation and fear of punishment for disobeying some rules, this kind of consent is useless. I won't call this sticking to one'e religion when people are made to do it by force rather then by will. This is not religious practice but political oppression.

This is what you call Democrazy. Lets not blame religion for it.

 

[timetravel]

On the contrary, I consider liberal Muslims to be those who may not follow every direction of their religion, especially daily practice of it. However, those who actually go against Islam and favour daily activities that Islam strictly prohibits are not 'liberal', them I consider the 'munafiqs'!

In Pakistan, most who preach to be liberal are actually 'munafiq'. Hope I have made it quite clear where you stand!

P.S. Neither do I watch Indian dramas nor do I dance. I may not follow my chosen religion down to the core however I do make serious attempts to ensure that I do not go 'against' it!

and what are those activities?

 

[Jaanbaz]

So now is it against the values of a good Muslim to watch Indian dramas or to dance at the wedding of their son's/daughter's?

That is how some so called Pakistani liberals act like.