Is it possible to convert su-30 into stealth or semi stealth?

[ptltejas]

Despite the advent of 'stealth' aircrafts jamming or ECM remain a valuable tool.

If anything, while 'stealth' can penetrate highly dense EM environment alone, an ECM assault on the defense will further confuse the defenders as to what he may face since both 'stealth' and 'non-stealth' aircrafts are equally lethal in terms of weapons.

Stand-off jamming is generally for blanket noise generation. The jammer aircraft usually does not specifically target any ground seeking radar but is concerned if there is an active EM environment, what kind is it, and its extent. The jammer aircraft usually remain just immediately outside of the weapons threat range.

Stand-in, aka 'escort' or 'penetration', jamming is much more dangerous and complex. The jammer aircraft accompanies the strike group and actually interpose itself between the seeking radar and the strike group to provide an EM shield. The jammer aircraft usually seek out as specific as possible the most threatening signals and sources and will target them. Stand-in jammers are usually 'quiet' until the very last moment in order to best exploit the electronic element of surprise against the seeking radars.

Both types can be performed by a single design. It is more a matter of mission type than of hardware. In other words, an EF-18 can be a stand-off jammer in one mission and a penetration jammer the next. However, the US is exploring making the B-52 into an ECM platform and with its size and subsonic speed, more likely this B-52 ECM variant will be confined to stand-off jamming missions. Not only can the B-52 can carry more ECM hardware but those hardware can be more powerful as well, enabling the B-52 to blanket the general area much more effectively.

When a defense is suddenly assaulted by an ECM attacker, the first thing the radar operator must do is to lower the gain in order to reduce the odds of having his hardware damaged. This is not about Hollywood where consoles explodes and sparks flying out of boxes. The damages are much more subtle. The analogy is having a sudden burst of light while looking through low-light enhancement devices, aka night vision goggles (NVG). The human eyes will require time to readjust. The radar is no different. But even though the electronics will recover quicker than the organic eyes, the few seconds is enough for the 'stealth' aircrafts to pass through an area they would rather either avoid or take extreme caution. The radar operator can also physically turn his antenna so that its main face is away from the highest intensity of the ECM assault to protect his hardware, but then again, the few seconds is all the 'stealth' aircrafts need at several hundreds km/h.

thanks sir. extra ordinary.

 

[Omega007]

thanks sir. extra ordinary.

Man!We are talking here about gambit!By the way,see he too agreed that no matter how 'stealthy' a fighter is it still can not leave its ECM.

 

[ptltejas]

Man!We are talking here about gambit!By the way,see he too agreed that no matter how 'stealthy' a fighter is it still can not leave its ECM.

me too gamit is best u better me good. Roger ECM is best defence and offensive(offence) too.
Reduce radar signature at certain extent might be possible by RAM layer nano tech.
I in sharpening shell only understand that tungston is hard matter and like other matter when dash with armour not deformed and bend and loss force as area incleased. its only loss outer surface thin layer and its dust removed and ignite like old days two stones use for spark and produce fire. so body remains as it is in bullet shape. and hence as area remains penetration be possible. however DU urenium is better compare to tungston.

as round loss thin skin surface but object remains hence known self sharpening. and not defore due to its hardness.

 

[Omega007]

me too gamit is best u better me good. Roger ECM is best defence and offensive(offence) too.
Reduce radar signature at certain extent might be possible by RAM layer nano tech.
I in sharpening shell only understand that tungston is hard matter and like other matter when dash with armour not deformed and bend and loss force as area incleased. its only loss outer surface thin layer and its dust removed and ignite like old days two stones use for spark and produce fire. so body remains as it is in bullet shape. and hence as area remains penetration be possible. however DU urenium is better compare to tungston.

as round loss thin skin surface but object remains hence known self sharpening. and not defore due to its hardness.

THANX bro for sharing your knowledge regarding KE penetrators.

A little correction- actually the tungsten carbide is harder than depleted uranium but also more fragile and less dence,hence deforms more quickly.But saying so DU too is reasonably hard,much denser and less brittle.So upon impact it's end remains sharper for longer period and hence achieves atleast 20% more penetration as compared to tungsten rounds.Besides it has been observed that denser materials have better armor piercing ability.That's too one of the reason behind greater performance of DU rounds.
REGARDS....

 

[Omega007]

Ok,when we are talking about KE penitrators here I will like to put some light in Arjun and Al khalid's ammunition system.
First,as we all know Arjun uses a 120 mm rifled gun but in contrary to popular belief the gun is actually an indigenous ARDE 52 caliber not the royal ordnance factory L44 gun.
Al khalid uses a 48 caliber 125 mm gun.
Popular belief is that(which it right) rifled guns are less powerful than smoothbore ones because the spin from rifling diverts some of the energy and the linear velocity of the round decreases.ARDE scientists overcame this by a simple but brilliant innovation-using bearing into the sabot so that the sabots start to spin while travelling through the gun barrel but the rod remains linear.So the mk1 FSAPDS T rounds can achieve a mussel velocity of 1720 meter/sec at 640 mpa bore pressure and can pierce upto 700-750 mm of RHA at 2400 meter.The round is equipped with a hardened ballistic cap to reduce deformation upon impact and increases its penetration power.
Now the Al khalid tank also fires its FSAPDS T rounds at 1720meter/sec mussel velocity but achieve a penetration of only 480 mm RHA at 2000 meter,even the naza DU round can penetrate only 550 mm RHA as per as per official website of pakistan ordnance factories.
There are two primary reasons for that.
1.Absence of hardened ballistic caps in pakistani rounds.
2.It is the primary weaknes of chinese and russian tanks with 125 mm guns.The tanks' carousal autoloaders can not hold the modern heavier longrod rounds.
While the complete length of the Arjun's FSAPDS T rounds is 980 mm with the rod length of 960 mm and weight of 10.8 kg the Al khalids' rounds are fitted with 550 mm long and 7.4 kg rods.So at the same velocity Arjuns' rounds gain a much higher momentum than the Al khalid and thus even the 'out dated' mk1 tungsten rounds surpass the 125 DU rounds by a good margin.People who claim that Arjun's firepower is inferior should get a reality check.
REGARDS....

 

[ptltejas]

THANX bro for sharing your knowledge regarding KE penetrators.

A little correction- actually the tungsten carbide is harder than depleted uranium but also more fragile and less dence,hence deforms more quickly.But saying so DU too is reasonably hard,much denser and less brittle.So upon impact it's end remains sharper for longer period and hence achieves atleast 20% more penetration as compared to tungsten rounds.Besides it has been observed that denser materials have better armor piercing ability.That's too one of the reason behind greater performance of DU rounds.
REGARDS....

Thanks sir. This is SABOT which use kinetic energy to destroy tank. however Israel SABOT is different. well why they also not prefer missile NIMROD like. 50 km ranGe. sorry of topic. magnetic train be most useful for the same to throw round in high air.
Regards

 

[ptltejas]

We have difficulty with citizens. they hardly proud and always behave unproudy. Tanks budy again. however I knew many new and extraordinary things from U Gamit. Baring used is really extraordinary. purpose for sale f-35 is not that, that they have love or affection but politics IND not be self reliance and $$$. our people is still slave of white skin and family succession leaders.

well on track. its really better to know they are using high tech. but why ARmy deny for Arjun cant understand.

 

[ptltejas]

I heard about US tech for guided rounds use GPS guidance and reach on target and in air change its direction. perhaps we might go for that.

 

[kaykay]

Starting an old but still relevant thread.
@janon @sancho @Abingdonboy
As we all know that DRDO has already developed radar absorbent material for fighter jets so will we see MKIs using them in future or already using?

 

[janon]

Starting an old but still relevant thread.
@janon @sancho @Abingdonboy
As we all know that DRDO has already developed radar absorbent material for fighter jets so will we see MKIs using them in future or already using?

It is known that the super sukhois will be painted with radar absorbent paint. While that would reduce the RCS, there is only so much that can be done - it will not make it stealthy or even semi stealthy. (Assuming that a Rafale is what is meant by "semi stealthy".) There is no way that the flanker's RCS can be reduced to be as low as Rafale. For that, the shaping of the airframe would have to be changed, which in effect would mean a completely different aircraft.

That is not much of a concern though - low radar detectability is not a make or break parameter. The MKI can give any non 5th gen fighters a run for their money, because of many factors - a highly maneuverable airframe, very high thrust, very powerful radar and jammers and EW suite and so on. As of today, the MKI can stand shoulder to shoulder with any aircraft in the world, barring the F-22 raptor. And it will be a very valuable asset for any air force for the next 20 years.

 

[kaykay]

It is known that the super sukhois will be painted with radar absorbent paint. While that would reduce the RCS, there is only so much that can be done - it will not make it stealthy or even semi stealthy. (Assuming that a Rafale is what is meant by "semi stealthy".) There is no way that the flanker's RCS can be reduced to be as low as Rafale. For that, the shaping of the airframe would have to be changed, which in effect would mean a completely different aircraft.

That is not much of a concern though - low radar detectability is not a make or break parameter. The MKI can give any non 5th gen fighters a run for their money, because of many factors - a highly maneuverable airframe, very high thrust, very powerful radar and jammers and EW suite and so on. As of today, the MKI can stand shoulder to shoulder with any aircraft in the world, barring the F-22 raptor. And it will be a very valuable asset for any air force for the next 20 years.

That's correct. Also AFAIK MKIs existing engines will be uprated and thus more thrust after upgrades. Also its needed because of addition of new AESA radar.

 

[sancho]

Starting an old but still relevant thread.
@janon @sancho @Abingdonboy
As we all know that DRDO has already developed radar absorbent material for fighter jets so will we see MKIs using them in future or already using?

Yes, just as the Russians reduced the RCS of latest Flankers and Mig 29s, by replacing as much metal parts with composite materials and adding as much coatings as possible. That will reduced it's RCS about 4 times, which imo is the most important part of the upgrade, because with evolving fighter radars and more importantly AWACS support in our opponent fleets, we need our fighters to be hard to detect. To achive this, the reduction of RCS in general, but also improving the EW capabilities and upgraded passive detection capabilities will be crucial and much more important than more thrust, Astra or even adding Brahmos 1. These changes and the fact that MKI don't need to carry external fuel tanks, will credibly reduce it's detectability and will make it far more deadly than it already is.

 

[kaykay]

Yes, just as the Russians reduced the RCS of latest Flankers and Mig 29s, by replacing as much metal parts with composite materials and adding as much coatings as possible. That will reduced it's RCS about 4 times, which imo is the most important part of the upgrade, because with evolving fighter radars and more importantly AWACS support in our opponent fleets, we need our fighters to be hard to detect. To achive this, the reduction of RCS in general, but also improving the EW capabilities and upgraded passive detection capabilities will be crucial and much more important than more thrust, Astra or even adding Brahmos 1. These changes and the fact that MKI don't need to carry external fuel tanks, will credibly reduce it's detectability and will make it far more deadly than it already is.

Thanks mate. Yes reduced RCS along with AESA radar and great combat range even without external fuel tanks will make MKI an absolute punisher.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Thanks mate. Yes reduced RCS along with AESA radar and great combat range even without external fuel tanks will make MKI an absolute punisher.

ameen summa ameen

 

[kaykay]

ameen summa ameen

View attachment 111622

Yeah addition of new weapons, reduced RCS, upgraded avionics, powerful AESA all are planned in super sukhoi upgrades but no one knows when these upgrades will start.