IS corruption a social phenomenon or an economical one

[Tango22]

i come from a country that is one of the most corrupt in the world.....Pay money and you can change your date of birth,caste,religion,place of birth etc etc.....pay money and you can get into an engineering school, medical school...pay money and you get a driver's license, a passport, a PAN card etc...

I have always wondered as to why some countries are more corrupt that others..following are the two reasons that i could think of

A social phenomenon: In past, India has undergone more cultural changes than few other countries in the world.....even today the Indian society is divided by caste,religion,language,region etc.. I think that no one believes in the philosophy.."one for all and all for one"....the general attitude is that " I have to take care of myselves...may the nation lie in shambles"....this "I" before "us" attitude is the root to corruption...Is this basic distrust for all other human beings is t the root of "fight for yourselves" philosophy.....A big example is our politicians..most of thekm have millions of dollars in their bank accounts....more than enough for 5 generations of theirs,...yet they dont stop...keep on accumulating money

An economic phenomenon: Policemen are the most poorly paid individuals in india...the corporate corollary of risk vs. return analogy does not apply to them; it seems.......Infact most poor countries in the world are also corrupt... i have travelled to many countries outside India....one blatant case of corruption I saw was in madagascar...... Allegedgedly (not true though) I was travelling without the necessary vaccinations for yellow fever to this country.... the IMMIGRATION officer asked me a bribe for getting into the country...Unfortunately, I obliged after some conversation in my poor french,,,but htis guy would have allowed me even without the right visa if the money was good...


makes me wonder


can we just get rid of corruption if we have equitable economic growth....or is it just hardcoded in our DNA

 

[halupridol]

gud thread by recruit

 

[Dubious]

i come from a country that is one of the most corrupt in the world.....Pay money and you can change your date of birth,caste,religion,place of birth etc etc.....pay money and you can get into an engineering school, medical school...pay money and you get a driver's license, a passport, a PAN card etc...

I have always wondered as to why some countries are more corrupt that others..following are the two reasons that i could think of

A social phenomenon: In past, India has undergone more cultural changes than few other countries in the world.....even today the Indian society is divided by caste,religion,language,region etc.. I think that no one believes in the philosophy.."one for all and all for one"....the general attitude is that " I have to take care of myselves...may the nation lie in shambles"....this "I" before "us" attitude is the root to corruption...Is this basic distrust for all other human beings is t the root of "fight for yourselves" philosophy.....A big example is our politicians..most of thekm have millions of dollars in their bank accounts....more than enough for 5 generations of theirs,...yet they dont stop...keep on accumulating money

An economic phenomenon: Policemen are the most poorly paid individuals in india...the corporate corollary of risk vs. return analogy does not apply to them; it seems.......Infact most poor countries in the world are also corrupt... i have travelled to many countries outside India....one blatant case of corruption I saw was in madagascar...... Allegedgedly (not true though) I was travelling without the necessary vaccinations for yellow fever to this country.... the IMMIGRATION officer asked me a bribe for getting into the country...Unfortunately, I obliged after some conversation in my poor french,,,but htis guy would have allowed me even without the right visa if the money was good...


makes me wonder


can we just get rid of corruption if we have equitable economic growth....or is it just hardcoded in our DNA

So far no gene has been attributed to morals ...

 

[Tango22]

So far no gene has been attributed to morals ...

DNA was a metaphor......what i meant was culture

 

[Dubious]

DNA was a metaphor......what i meant was culture

culture evolves...esp when there is room for exchange...when there is no inflow of culture it becomes stagnant and many times goes into a whirlpool of destruction (esp if the initial one was not something worth preserving)

Another phenomena is influx of bad culture comes ...when that happens all the bads surface (of original + new culture)

A very interesting subject actually....I hate the way the West paint it with the limited studies in respect to Western societies...Eastern cultures and evolution should be researched and read up...

Traditionally, it was religion holding people to adhere to morals (no matter how much shit some culture has a little bit of control from religion has always put a plug in it going into extreme crap- of course I mean the proper practice not the cult like things in Religion which people love to highlight)

Man has the potential of going in both extremes hence some control is always necessary...traditionally, religion played this part but with soo many rejecting that stance, we now have laws (which are also equally corrupted just like the religions)

Sorry I went off tangent...Corruption occurs when there is economical imbalance...survival of the fittest makes a man go to any lengths to feed himself!

As for socially, yes it can happen, when there is too much social competition: status, brand worship, dissatisfaction and other inputs

 

[Tango22]

Well.....there are many economists who support some level of corruption in developing countries.....just take an example of a oil reservoir given to a government firm vs a private firm (no co incidence is intended)...private firm will run it more profitably (this is pure economics...take into consideration the utility of money.....disregards corruption since a private owner will have more utility for money than a manager from a public utility)

My intention is to find out if it can be solved independently of a nation's cultural or economics issues!

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Corruption is socioeconomic problem. The individual wants to live a better life, both because he seeks a economic stability and because he wants to maintain a status in the society. There is no end to a person's greed but sometimes lower wages is the only cause to corruption. When a person who has taken bribes in the past because his of poor economic conditions reaches in his life to a point where he is prosperous enough that he does not needs bribes, by that time taking bribes becomes his habit and he cannot stop himself. So its a socioeconomic problem.

Think that even if a person is in middle class and doing moderately better than most he might still feel that he is not well off enough, that could make him to take bribes. This is totally subjective because there is no standard bar set for poverty and economic well being, and different people have different meaning of economic stability in their mind. For example, in one country five dollars a day might be considered economic hardships while in the same country in some other class if someone makes just a little more than one dollar a day he might be considered well off, but for an upper class person twenty dollars a day might be the necessary to life a okay life.

So far no gene has been attributed to morals ...

Scientists have found that in some brutal murderers there is a defect in the brain. Now if the defect is not due to injury of physical or traumatic distress then it might be because of DNA. There is more need for research in this area. Nothing can be said for certain about DNA and genetics until more is proven. If DNA of a person can make his brain defective, and that defective brain can cause that person to become murderers then DNA might be related to other human behaviors too. That is a big IF for now until proven. We just have to wait and see what the neurologists find and how much they can relate neurology to genetics.

 

[Tango22]

What the solution then....Is china leading by example by hanging people indulging in corruption??


Are our judiciaries strong enough to deliver justice!!

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

What the solution then....Is china leading by example by hanging people indulging in corruption??
Are our judiciaries strong enough to deliver justice!!

Well I cant say definitely , I dont want to be judge, jury and executioner. But I can say is that if good morals are taught from childhood the same way religion is taught then most problems can be cured, but all religion might have these "upholding of good moral value" in their teaching but it comes down to human factor and/or many other factors, how a person is brought up, how he interprets rules, can he make good moral choices effectively. There are many factors that need to be evaluated. We humans just see one side of the coin, and there might be many sides of a coin not just two. Are we good enough to hang a person by only evaluation one factor?

None one us are perfect at doing everything effectively so a person might lack better judgement or he there might be the case that no one ever told him what what he is doing is wrong. Or may be in his society its not shunned upon. But there are extremes in a society as well, what I am saying that some people might do it just because getting away from getting caught might be a adrenalin rush for them, or may be they are really criminals and do not care and its their personal choice. So which factor are you going to judge when you are going to execute a person for taking bribes or for that matter doing anything wrong? Are you capable of good judgement so that when you have to make such a choice you do not make wrong decision and condemn someone to pay the ultimate price. How many factors are there do you know them all to judge while keeping them all in view. May be the person has some defect in his genetics that makes him takes bribies, can you execute a person because he has some genetic flaw?

So execution might not be a good idea but giving them warnings and punishments might be one way to curb some of that behavior. How sever must be the punishments? How can one be sure that punishments are proportionate to the crimes committed. Cutting hands for stealing $50 is not a good decision, let alone executing someone. Community service might be better if you ask me which punishment would I levy against a person.

 

[cloud_9]

Economical for sure

 

[Dubious]

Scientists have found that in some brutal murderers there is a defect in the brain. Now if the defect is not due to injury of physical or traumatic distress then it might be because of DNA. There is more need for research in this area. Nothing can be said for certain about DNA and genetics until more is proven. If DNA of a person can make his brain defective, and that defective brain can cause that person to become murderers then DNA might be related to other human behaviors too. That is a big IF for now until proven. We just have to wait and see what the neurologists find and how much they can relate neurology to genetics.

This is the most ridiculous way apologists try to make people believe and legitimize "disruption of privacy" of the family of people who go to jail, their kids should be "monitored" because the kids would carry an "invisible undiscovered" gene that can cause the child to follow the footsteps of the "inert" parent...

Another thing can be some crazy person who went to prison and prob wrote a book and some people think that it carries weight! Its disgusting how people try to equate everything of theirs with DNA ....like that moronic gay scientist (who was objected by many reputable scientists and had to lick his wounds in some corner) who proclaimed to the world there is a gay gene or that other bastard who said there may be a gene for killing!

One needs to understand there are some psychological disorders which if not treated or given attention lead to killing (that too if left undiagnosed unsupervised)...

As for trauma, yes the brain registers trauma, but if you take identical twins who have experienced trauma not until the experience is repeated repeatedly the brain does not go in an overdrive...The brain is not as weak as many seem to want us to believe...it also has its own repair and defense mechanism...Only people who actually study it can appreciate all this knowledge while others can speculate all sorts of rubbish and try to free serial killers!

 

[Tango22]

Economical for sure

Honeslty......its a tough topic.......very very tough topic

 

[Dubious]

but it comes down to human factor and/or many other factors, how a person is brought up,

That is the main rule!

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

This is the most ridiculous way apologists try to make people believe and legitimize "disruption of privacy" of the family of people who go to jail, their kids should be "monitored" because the kids would carry an "invisible undiscovered" gene that can cause the child to follow the footsteps of the "inert" parent...
Another thing can be some crazy person who went to prison and prob wrote a book and some people think that it carries weight! Its disgusting how people try to equate everything of theirs with DNA ....like that moronic gay scientist (who was objected by many reputable scientists and had to lick his wounds in some corner) who proclaimed to the world there is a gay gene or that other bastard who said there may be a gene for killing!
One needs to understand there are some psychological disorders which if not treated or given attention lead to killing (that too if left undiagnosed unsupervised)...
As for trauma, yes the brain registers trauma, but if you take identical twins who have experienced trauma not until the experience is repeated repeatedly the brain does not go in an overdrive...The brain is not as weak as many seem to want us to believe...it also has its own repair and defense mechanism...Only people who actually study it can appreciate all this knowledge while others can speculate all sorts of rubbish and try to free serial killers!

Passing value judgement on Scientific research is not my cup of tea. Go search the internet and read on the topic.

 

[Dubious]

Passing value judgement on Scientific research is not my cup of tea. Go search the internet and read on the topic.

You claimed some scientists said so and so...I am studying genetics so I would like to know the name of this scientist so we can deal with such disgrace to our field!