Iranian Combat Aircraft Programmes

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[The Last of us]

No fighter jet engines = no fighter jet.
Iran can produce a decent 4+ gen fighter jet but this will not happen until a jet engine is developed or is imported. J-90 engine being developed is a good start. Everything else can easily be made by Iran.

The F-5 family upgrades were and are being used to gain experience in this sector. No country can just jump and make a fighter jet out of nowwhere. F-5 is a cheap way for Iran to start gaining such experience.

As for Ghaher-313. You can blame the moronic politicians for that. The ghaher 313 was at best a flying craft used for attacking naval ships and ground target. It was obviously not a "fighter jet" as it lacks many attributes needed for a capable fighter jet capable of engaging air to air combats. Ghaher 313 could eventually be made into a UAV or you could never hear from it again.

Janes have a history of being very biased towards Iran and made some outlandish statement in the past which were borderline insane like how the asefeh 23mm gatling gun is based on 20 mm M197.

In this particular case, I cannot fault them, other than their foolish pronunciation of sagheh. Although they have no evidence for their claims, they don't seem to be unreasonable.

 

[yavar]

As for Ghaher-313. You can blame the moronic politicians for that. The ghaher 313 was at best a flying craft used for attacking naval ships and ground target. It was obviously not a "fighter jet" as it lacks many attributes needed for a capable fighter jet capable of engaging air to air combats. Ghaher 313 could eventually be made into a UAV or you could never hear from it again.

Ghaher 313 project is fighter air craft which we saw first design and mockup which means nothing and it will go true many phases changes and design changes which we hope we can finales the project in next .......... and once it is fully finished it will be showed and then we will be dealing with none sense .time will tell and history will judge it

 

[Shams313]

Some crazy school kids became defense analyzer , they improved their level from x-box to defense expert............That is IHS janes...

 

[SOHEIL]

Ghaher 313 project is fighter air craft which we saw first design and mockup which means nothing and it will go true many phases changes and design changes which we hope we can finales the project in next .......... and once it is fully finished it will be showed and then we will be dealing with none sense .time will tell and history will judge it

Next 2 years ... maybe more

 

[-------]

No fighter jet engines = no fighter jet.
Iran can produce a decent 4+ gen fighter jet but this will not happen until a jet engine is developed or is imported. J-90 engine being developed is a good start. Everything can easily be made by Iran.

The F-5 family upgrades were and are being used to gain experience in this sector. No country can just jump and make a fighter jet out of nowwhere. F-5 is a cheap way for Iran to start gaining such experience.

I disagree with you, Russian Cooperation was required to develop partially Shafaq which seemed like a decent 4th gen fighter, but that project was never heard from again when Russians pulled out. The most crucial requirement to developing fighters is not only Jet Engine or Body of the jet, but understanding how all those work together. Many fighter jet programmes were delayed because Avionics were utterly crap. *looks at india's Tejas, sweden's Gripen*

Does Iran have the expertise and experience to truly develop a 4+ gen aircraft with Fly By Wire avionics, I highly doubt it. Not with poking around in F-5 or F-14 with mechanical controls.

As for Ghaher-313. You can blame the moronic politicians for that. The ghaher 313 was at best a flying craft used for attacking naval ships and ground target. It was obviously not a "fighter jet" as it lacks many attributes needed for a capable fighter jet capable of engaging air to air combats. Ghaher 313 could eventually be made into a UAV or you could never hear from it again.

Ghaher 313 was indeed for internal consumption.

Janes have a history of being very biased towards Iran and made some outlandish statement in the past which were borderline insane like how the asefeh 23mm gatling gun is based on 20 mm M197.

In this particular case, I cannot fault them, other than their foolish pronunciation of sagheh. Although they have no evidence for their claims, they don't seem to be unreasonable.

I'm sure a few M197 and M61 were inspected thoroughly in the development of asefeh 23mm. Jane's fudged up there.

 

[The Last of us]

I disagree with you, Russian Cooperation was required to develop partially Shafaq which seemed like a decent 4th gen fighter, but that project was never heard from again when Russians pulled out. The most crucial requirement to developing fighters is not only Jet Engine or Body of the jet, but understanding how all those work together. Many fighter jet programmes were delayed because Avionics were utterly crap. *looks at india's Tejas, sweden's Gripen*

Does Iran have the expertise and experience to truly develop a 4+ gen aircraft with Fly By Wire avionics, I highly doubt it. Not with poking around in F-5 or F-14 with mechanical controls.



Ghaher 313 was indeed for internal consumption.



I'm sure a few M197 and M61 were inspected thoroughly in the development of asefeh 23mm. Jane's fudged up there.

I am not comparing Iran back then to Iran today. I am saying Iran of today could relatively easily develop a decent 4th fighter jet. Iran already is developing a plane based on the shafagh, called Borhan, which is a small jet used for lightscale mission and training. And there is talk of a "semi heavy" fighter jet being in development.
I did not mean Iran could develop a fly by wire, aesa plane radar etc like it is baking a cake, I meant relative to the major obstacle, which is the jet engine, Iran can them relatively easier. I should have used the world "relatively".
We do not know how much Iran has really developed in the fighter jet development because they do not advertise all the components. Every now and then they show bits, like the fighter jet seat they shown while back and the landing gears.

The main question is this, has the priority started to shift towards Iran's airforce yet or not? Iran's priory has been for a long time now the missile sector and airdefence. Once funding start to pour into airforce, you will start seeing major development.

As for Ghaher. The reason why I am not 100% inclined to say it was a pure propaganda is this. The politicians are moronic but not retarded. They would have shown a more realistic airframe as propaganda. Something that was easier to analyse by looking at it.If it was propaganda, it was not just propaganda aimed at the population as people like to claim, it would been propaganda aimed at the enemies as well, enemies who will obviously have experienced aerospace engineers to judge the plane. But they did say, ghaher was suppose be used for low altitude flying and very cheap to make, which led me to my earlier statement of it being potentially used for ground attack and naval attack roles. Ultimately, only time will tell what really ghaher was.

 

[-SINAN-]

But they did say, ghaher was suppose be used for low altitude flying and very cheap to make, which led me to my earlier statement of it being potentially used for ground attack and naval attack roles.

I'm not discussing....just ask @SOHEIL if Qaher can be used in CAS missions with it's air intake(which is above the fuselage).

 

[The Last of us]

I'm not discussing....just ask @SOHEIL if Qaher can be used in CAS missions with it's air intake(which is above the fuselage).

Nobody here can claim to be an expert in aerospace. I certainly do not have a degree in such a field. But I do know this. For a capable CAS mission, the plane would need considerable fire power. The qaher is simply too small to have such meaningful payload.
Qaher does not make sense as a manned plane to me. It could in all possibility be made into a unmanned plane. That in my opinion would be a much better development pathway for it. Matter of fact, qaher as an unmanned bomber could be quite decent. But due to its intake position, thickish wings, one engine, it would certainly not make a decent fighter jet for air to air combat. Even a layman can know this.

 

[yavar]

Next 2 years ... maybe more

It all depends in what stage want to show it

 

[SOHEIL]

It all depends in what stage want to show it

Final design ... first prototype !

 

[The Last of us]

In order for Ghaher to become a decent platform for air to air combat it will require considerable changes...those changes will make it become a completely new plane that looks nothing like it does now. For a decent air to air fighter, you don't need radical designs like ghaher..a design like below will do:

Above is a korean stealth fighter project. Notice how most these stealth fighters look like the F-22. That is not because they are copying the F-22 but rather these designs are ones you will come up with when you try and create a stealth platform. If you use a computer to help create you a stealth plane, one type you get is what you see above.

Iran should just concentrate on platform like above.

Ghaher is not designed for air to air combat. Some people are talking about "final ghaher designs" etc. In order for it to become a fighter jet fit for modern combat, it will look nothing like ghaher. It will need to become bigger, completely different intakes and completely different wings. Cockpit needs changing. So you people think if ghaher was being designed as a air to air capable plane, that it would look anything like it does now? you think the engineers are that incapable of designing? Clearly, ghaher was designed from its inception to be something else. I am by no means an expert on the matter, but I know enough to understand ghaher was at best, just a small, cheap, aircraft designed to attack naval ships at low altitude, thus it begs the question, why make such a thing manned? it is nonsensical. Making it unmanned would be much better, ghaher is not worth putting a pilot into it.

 

[-SINAN-]

Lotfan be turk ha javab nade ... mavaredi ham ke dar mored ghaher migi dorost nist !

Lol....you know very well..... @The Last of us ..

Ask him why all of the planes in the world has their engines/air intakes under the fuselage/wings... or forget it, he will never explain it to you.

Answer easy.. Angle of attack, if you place your intakes above the fuselage it means during the maneuvering not sufficient air will go into engine, causing engine to choke.

The planes that has their intakes above the fuselage is B2, RQ-170. They are both not designed for maneuvering but one high altitude bombing, other one high altitude surveillance.

@SOHEIL principal of flight has nothing to do with anger.

 

[The Last of us]

@Sinan

I don't disagree with what you're saying. But planes like X-47B. And even the sixth generation concept plane below has somewhat a top intake:

There are other fighter jets with top intakes as well. The problems with ghaher is not just the intakes. There are other issues with it.

 

[-SINAN-]

@Sinan

I don't disagree with what you're saying. But planes like X-47B. And even the sixth generation concept plane below has somewhat a top intake:

There are other fighter jets with top intakes as well. The problems with ghaher is not just the intakes. There are other issues with it.

Can you show me a fighter jet with top intakes, other than prototypes and conceptual drawings. Let's not talk about Qaher but in general.