Intercommunity Distrust due to "historical persecution narratives"

[Proud to be Pakistani]

You have not answered.

Have you seen God?

If you have not, then where is there the proof that God exists?

Brains accept reality because it can be seen.

It enjoys Fairy Tales since it allows the brains to take a rest and fantasise.

But beyond that the rational mind does not accept what one has not seen!

Your Brain tells you how you come into being?

Only speculations of a retarded MIND!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

What Nationalism you are talking about!

You think people in Pakistan have only Pakistan in common!

No......We the muslims can only unite under one Banner and that is ISLAM!

Since long muslims started thinking about nationalism and other regional approach. Consider the Islamic Empire when it was at the time of Caliphs. It was a united entity without any race or division. It was the prime of understanding the logic of Islam after Prophet Muhammed(PBUH) that as long as you are one and only one under the name of Islam without any division on the basis of color, language and region, you will be the Strongest.

Your understanding about life as per your religion is very poor, as with most of the muslim people in the world also as the days are nearing to the complete fall of muslim society.

I was just the same as most muslims now adays since we try to understand everything with logic and intent, It is not so, try to learn your religion and the teaching of islam and then you will have an indepth about your religion!

Born Muslims!

Respect for other religions is part of teaching of Islam but what you wanted to imply? ...

Are you a salafi?

Your nation means nothing to you?

 

[OKtoBerFeSt]

Can't people just stick to their arguments and stop calling each other names? Dammit...I feel like I'm in Insultoland...everyone is getting insulted for something or the other.

Look, PtbP, don't live under the delusion that the Islamic world was united and everyone had turned blind to race and color.

There was never a "perfect, brilliant medieval sultanate where everyone was happy and lived to be a hundred years".
If you just bother to cut through all the layers of glorification, you will realize that the medieval world, including the Islamic one, was a brutal, primitive and definitely not what it is made out to be.

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Can't people just stick to their arguments and stop calling each other names? Dammit...I feel like I'm in Insultoland...everyone is getting insulted for something or the other.

Look, PtbP, don't live under the delusion that the Islamic world was united and everyone had turned blind to race and color.

There was never a "perfect, brilliant medieval sultanate where everyone was happy and lived to be a hundred years".
If you just bother to cut through all the layers of glorification, you will realize that the medieval world, including the Islamic one, was a brutal, primitive and definitely not what it is made out to be.

OKtoBerFeSt,

I never mean to disrespect one's faith but consider your post again and then think what you lack!

Knowledge about Islam!

Go and get yourself some knowledge before pasting your opinion about brutalities and etc. You are covered with fed lies and you know nothing about the realities of Islamic empire in the rule of Caliphs.

 

[OKtoBerFeSt]

OKtoBerFeSt,

I never mean to disrespect one's faith but consider your post again and then think what you lack!

Knowledge about Islam!

Go and get yourself some knowledge before pasting your opinion about brutalities and etc. You are covered with fed lies and you know nothing about the realities of Islamic empire in the rule of Caliphs.

Perhaps you can educate me here itself? How exactly was the rule of the Caliphs so wonderful?

Edit: More importantly, why is the Caliph rule better than modern civilization?

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Are you a salafi?

Your nation means nothing to you?

I am not a Salafi!

I am muslim!....

Understanding Islam without being part of a School of Thought was and is my aim. The Hanafi is the oldest of the four schools of thought (Fiqh).

Hanafi, Shafi, Maliki, and Hanbali: there is very little or no animosity (is a feeling of hatred arousing active hostility) between the four schools of religious law.

Salafism is a movement, and can come from the Maliki, the Shafi, the Hanbali, or the Hanafi. Lots of logic of salafis as per me are right and lots are wrong!, when considered with School of Thoughts.

Salafis are divided on the question of adherence to the four recognized schools of legal interpretation.

Like Salafis one must base their jurisprudence (is the theory and philosophy of law) directly on the Quran and Sunnah and the time of Caliphs for better understanding of Islam.

The Quran and the Hadith and the Ijma (consensus) of the Scholars, are sufficient guidance for the believing Muslim, true, but the Interpretation of Islam by four School of thoughts must be referred.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Islam is between the Allah and the person.

Others are none to interpret this equation!

If others are better qualified to interpret, it mean that those who are Moslems are not conversant with literacy.

The Bible require no one to interpret it for anyone.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

BTW, just wanted to know if the Salafis accept the hadiths?

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

BTW, just wanted to know if the Salafis accept the hadiths?

Salafis base their jurisprudence (is the theory and philosophy of law) directly on the Quran and Sunnah and the time of Caliphs for better understanding of Islam.

 

[ahussains]

No......We the muslims can only unite under one Banner and that is ISLAM!

If we ever agreed on that above line our all problems will automatically solve

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Islam is between the Allah and the person.

Others are none to interpret this equation!

If others are better qualified to interpret, it mean that those who are Moslems are not conversant with literacy.

The Bible require no one to interpret it for anyone.

GOD gave Quran as the last of his book and sent Prophet Muhammed for Its Interpretation and implimentation through his life to show Islam as a Code of Conduct for every aspect of Life. Islam indicates that all the books send by GOD (including Bible) are to be believed true but all the teachings of GOD have been included in Islam and to follow there remains one book that is QURAN. And only one religion and that is ISLAM.

Literacy has not broaden the logic of people to interpret Islam by themselves without the guidence of Prophet Muhammed(PBUH) that is Hadith! With Bible GOD sent Prophets for Interpretation of his words since the mind of People for understanding of words of GOD were not sufficient for logical analysis. The same holds true at the time of Prophet Muhammed(PBUH). From the Hadith we understand the complete logic of Quran and from the life of Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) we know the teachings of Islam.

For understanding and Interpreting Islam one must be having an indepth knowledge of Quran and Sunnah and the Sunnah as per the availability (since people have been quoting Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) ) should not conflict with Quran to be accepted as valid. The school of Thought were formed by the people in the time of Sahaba which accompanied Prophet Muhammed(PBUH) and were the best source of Understanding the Laws and for the solution of conflicts and contradictions in the interpretation of Quran and Hadith as per the teachings of Prophet Muhammed (PBUH).

 

[genmirajborgza786]

What Nationalism you are talking about!

You think people in Pakistan have only Pakistan in common!

No......We the muslims can only unite under one Banner and that is ISLAM!

Since long muslims started thinking about nationalism and other regional approach. Consider the Islamic Empire when it was at the time of Caliphs. It was a united entity without any race or division. It was the prime of understanding the logic of Islam after Prophet Muhammed(PBUH) that as long as you are one and only one under the name of Islam without any division on the basis of color, language and region, you will be the Strongest.

Your understanding about life as per your religion is very poor, as with most of the muslim people in the world also as the days are nearing to the complete fall of muslim society.

I was just the same as most muslims now adays since we try to understand everything with logic and intent, It is not so, try to learn your religion and the teaching of islam and then you will have an indepth about your religion!

Born Muslims!

Respect for other religions is part of teaching of Islam but what you wanted to imply? ...

hey easy boy, take it easy....ok

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I think its kiddish to say that reason of animosity is nationalism. Nationalism doesnt create hatred between "US" and "them" .
Pakistani intelegensia has struggled to find the reason and the origin of this haterd in their heart for India, and your Faith can give you some glimpse of this animosity .
But i think the reason of Origin of Pakistan can reflect on this hatred .

Theories on Pakistan's origins

It has more to do with Islamic superiority complex .
being weaker then a Pagan country which they have ruled for generations is against the comprehension of Land of Purist

I don't think that you can ignore nationalism - yes, religion is part of how Pakistanis define the "distinctness" of Pakistan from India, but among a lot of Pakistanis, such as myself, for whom religion remains something personal, our "animosity" ("friendly competition" would be more apt, since we don't want to see either country blow the other up, but do relish the "competition" in various spheres) is based primarily on nationalism - of being "Pakistani", and not Muslim.

For other Pakistanis the identity is linked and primarily dependent upon religion, and the concept of being a Muslim country is the "identity". For yet others it is a hybrid - religion doesn't define "Pakistaniat", but it is a part of it.

The article you mentioned quotes several "theories" on the "identity" of Pakistan - the truth is that all of them are true - it just depends on who you ask. The Pakistani identity is in flux, and evolving. In a way the evolution of identity and changes in society happen in every nation - the role of religion in US society, the evolution in European nations etc.

There is a thread on that article here, and rather than hijack this thread onto that discussion, if you respond, lets continue it there.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strategic-geopolitical-issues/9591-theories-pakistans-origins.html

 

[IndianMunda]

GOD gave Quran as the last of his book and sent Prophet Muhammed for Its Interpretation and implimentation through his life to show Islam as a Code of Conduct for every aspect of Life. Islam indicates that all the books send by GOD (including Bible) are to be believed true but all the teachings of GOD have been included in Islam and to follow there remains one book that is QURAN. And only one religion and that is ISLAM.

This whole concept is highly theoretical. In coming years with in Islam there will be two stream of people, one as Salim said will have one to one relationship with GOD with open mind and another who will force to accept all these theories and never allow others to validate or contradict Islamic teaching. This will create a major conflict with in Muslims and across other faith groups. Sign of conflict can be seen in all Islamic nations.

Literacy has not broaden the logic of people to interpret Islam by themselves without the guidence of Prophet Muhammed(PBUH) that is Hadith! With Bible GOD sent Prophets for Interpretation of his words since the mind of People for understanding of words of GOD were not sufficient for logical analysis. The same holds true at the time of Prophet Muhammed(PBUH). From the Hadith we understand the complete logic of Quran and from the life of Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) we know the teachings of Islam.

Human being have never able to proved the existence of GOD nor they will be able to. Reason is simple GOD is human creation vice-versa is not true. So every time human tries to prove existence of GOD they will give all human created evidences like Bible, Quran, GITA etc. That is why we think Literacy has not broaden the logic of people to understand GOD or religious books.

My personal opinion is simple, believe of existence and faith in my GOD is beyond reasoning, and I have personal relationship with GOD rather than via any religion and religious preacher.

For understanding and Interpreting Islam one must be having an indepth knowledge of Quran and Sunnah and the Sunnah as per the availability (since people have been quoting Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) ) should not conflict with Quran to be accepted as valid. The school of Thought were formed by the people in the time of Sahaba which accompanied Prophet Muhammed(PBUH) and were the best source of Understanding the Laws and for the solution of conflicts and contradictions in the interpretation of Quran and Hadith as per the teachings of Prophet Muhammed (PBUH).

History shows that no body came in picture whose interpretation got acceptance universally. Due to human nature to interpret some thing for own favour, every same minded group will have own interpretation and they will claim others understanding wrong, that will lead to conflict and anarchy. Taliban is biggest example.

 

[HK-47]

I am proud to say that while India has a Hindu majority, it is not a Hindu country and it shall never be!

didn't stop the minorities from getting their rights violated did it?though it has more to do with governance.and again India's understanding of secularism is a bit different than that of other secular nations.

I think the Pakistan-India rivalry is more to do with land(Kashmir) than religion itself,though religion is linked here in a way. Religion IMO is used to gain support just like in the Palestinian conflict.

Logic Note what are you trying to say?Islam motivated all Pakistanis to hate and rage war against India?