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[Roybot]

I agree something progressive and centrist (rather than leftist) has to fill this void left by the congress.

If only to prevent the BJP from resting on its laurels and getting complacent.

Very sad that nothing is truly taking shape past a bunch of lame regional alliances of the same political cacophony.

As for you not sharing my optimism and faith in the matter....fair enough...I have not been to much of the interior areas of the hindi heartland. I tend to scrape around the coasts and the deccan in my sojourns...I probably do not have the full picture it is true.

But from hindsight of 2 - 3 years of BJP now given many were predicting a gujarat-style pogrom/riot every month or even every week right after Modi took power...I can safely say that the "inertia" inherent in basic Indian culture is quite a sizeable force...and I expect that to continue. Any hue that it changes into would be a long term phenomenon rather than one imparted impulsively by whatever group.

BJP is the centrist and progressive party of India. Your Shiv Senas, Bajrang Dal are the actual right wing.

 

[Nilgiri]

BJP is the centrist and progressive party of India. Your Shiv Senas, Bajrang Dal are the actual right wing.

I am talking from relative political spectrum of India. Yes BJP would be centrist in international terms....but it is on the right in Indian terms, given the average "centre" in India is to the left of the international centre imo.

Also I am talking only economically. The authoritarian/liberal part of it means little to me at the current point of time.

The Hindu is silent sir. His initial euphoria at a Hindu party coming to power and potentially siccing it to the ugly Muslim has evaporated some time ago. To different degrees. A quiet unease has taken its place. Though the social media, twitter and whatsapp bravado continues for now.

What is left is a party that is finding ruling a whole lot different to canvassing on an anti incumbency wave.

The Muslims are keeping quiet. Which is further making it difficult for the BJP to whip up the same hysteria of 2014.

You say no pogroms. I say no bomb blasts. No anti national activity.

Its a conspiracy .... and the BJP is being exposed.

Well lets see what March 11th has in store as far as this goes.

I am encouraged by the high turnout.

 

[adil_minhas]

The authoritarian/liberal part of it means little to me at the current point of time.

It means a lot to someone living here sir.

Especially when he is not a Hindu.

 

[Nilgiri]

It means a lot to someone living here sir.

Especially when he is not a Hindu.

When there isn't enough wealth to go around, people get caught up in liberal/authoritarian issues (from whatever perspective they may have on it...however warped) way too prematurely. (Just like India got caught in focusing on sharing its pie rather than growing it during the cold war). When a body is hungry...should we explore the nuances of what hunger is and why its caused etc...or focus on feeding the body first?

Hence my focus on the economic side (and it will be my focus for quite some time yet). I see it being the only way where India can even achieve the space to frankly discuss the authoritarian/liberal aspect of development.

When people are better educated and employed (and i mean in basic raw volumes/prevalence), we can then focus more appropriately on authoritarian/liberal spectrum related issues. For now it has to take the backseat.

Indian society suffers from a weird superposition of both superiority and inferiority complexes....when it really shouldn't have such complexes at all, get its head down, its hand's dirty and focus on raw development for a good generation at least. Once people are wealthy enough, we can see which issues still linger so we can at least afford to solve them better than we can do now.

 

[adil_minhas]

Indian society suffers from a weird superposition of both superiority and inferiority complexes....when it really shouldn't have such complexes at all, get its head down, its hand's dirty and focus on raw development for a good generation at least. Once people are wealthy enough, we can see which issues still linger so we can at least afford to solve them better than we can do now.

Sir we are not Chinese. We are Indian. We will get there in our own way, at our own pace.

Meanwhile, as I repeat, for someone living here, the social aspect cannot be ignored or kept on the backburner.

For Indians, it is oftentimes the only burner. Going full blast. 24x7.

Being wealthy is not as important to us as being equal. Call it the colonial hangover. Or the hangover of Muslim rule in India. Whatever.

India is right now in a war. Not between Hindutwa and Secularism. But between Democracy and Majoritarianism.

 

[Nilgiri]

Sir we are not Chinese. We are Indian. We will get there in our own way, at our own pace.

Meanwhile, as I repeat, for someone living here, the social aspect cannot be ignored or kept on the backburner.

For Indians, it is oftentimes the only burner. Going full blast. 24x7.

Watch the economic and political developments and results closely then. One major one is coming up which will give a clear indicator on the verdict of mostly economically oppressed and socially immobile people. The latter will overall defer to the former, for these people are realising in larger numbers, from what they have glimpsed of the towns, cities and other economic hubs of India...the big lie that has been told to them for countless years: that social change can precede the economic one.

In the end you are one person, they are many 100s of millions. So you will be made to silently realise that too....or at least accept thats how the majority (who do not have anywhere near the luxury you or I do to be typing on some internet forum) increasingly thinks these days.

I am not saying the social aspect should be ignored entirely. It is simply the 2nd most important issue....not the 1st.

 

[adil_minhas]

Watch the economic and political developments and results closely then. One major one is coming up which will give a clear indicator on the verdict of mostly economically oppressed and socially immobile people. The latter will overall defer to the former, for these people are realising in larger numbers, from what they have glimpsed of the towns, cities and other economic hubs of India...the big lie that has been told to them for countless years: that social change can precede the economic one.

In the end you are one person, they are many 100s of millions. So you will be made to silently realise that too....or at least accept thats how the majority (who do not have anywhere near the luxury you or I do to be typing on some internet forum) increasingly thinks these days.

I am not saying the social aspect should be ignored entirely. It is simply the 2nd most important issue....not the 1st.

I am watching. The social. The economic. And the political.

So Biharis are essentially rich pampered guys on the internet.

Cheers.

 

[Soumitra]

I am watching. The social. The economic. And the political.

So Biharis are essentially rich pampered guys on the internet.

Cheers.

Bihar was a different case. The Entire opposition united just to defeat the BJP. Nitish and Lalu sworn enemies coming together. congress as usual just tagged along.

If in UP SP and BSP had come together then BJP would be in trouble. I am not that much worried now.

And Delhi was a special case of entertainment value. If you see the vote share terms BJP did not lose much vote share but almost entire congress vote went to AAP. It was the new circus in town. People knew Congress was no where in the pic so they picked AAP

 

[adil_minhas]

Bihar was a different case. The Entire opposition united just to defeat the BJP. Nitish and Lalu sworn enemies coming together. congress as usual just tagged along.

If in UP SP and BSP had come together then BJP would be in trouble. I am not that much worried now.

And Delhi was a special case of entertainment value. If you see the vote share terms BJP did not lose much vote share but almost entire congress vote went to AAP. It was the new circus in town. People knew Congress was no where in the pic so they picked AAP

Bihar was a vote for Nitish.

Bihar was a vote against Modi.

My point was to Nilgiri who indicated that UP was the litmus test of which way the wind was blowing among the poor masses. And that what we thought or debated on the internet did not really matter.

I was pointing out that in India you need to win both UP and Bihar. Because that's where the Indian heartland resides. And Modi has already been demolished in 1 out of 2.

Remember, this was the picture in 2014 ....

Enough said.

 

[Soumitra]

Bihar was a vote for Nitish.

Bihar was a vote against Modi.

My point was to Nilgiri who indicated that UP was the litmus test of which way the wind was blowing among the poor masses. And that what we thought or debated on the internet did not really matter.

I was pointing out that in India you need to win both UP and Bihar. Because that's where the Indian heartland resides.

Tell me if Lalu had not joined with Nitish would he have won?

If it was vote for Nitish why does RJD have higher no of seats? (RJD 80, JD(U) 71)

If Nitish and Modi were together wouldnt he have got a higher number of seats?

Right now the situation is that Nitish is just the navigator and the vehicle is being driven by RJD. Nitish is an engineer and his deputy is a Ninth fail son of Lalu

 

[adil_minhas]

Tell me if Lalu had not joined with Nitish would he have won?

If it was vote for Nitish why does RJD have higher no of seats? (RJD 80, JD(U) 71)

If Nitish and Modi were together wouldnt he have got a higher number of seats?

Right now the situation is that Nitish is just the navigator and the vehicle is being driven by RJD. Nitish is an engineer and his deputy is a Ninth fail son of Lalu

All true.

Point is Modi lost.

And he was voted out by impoverished and grass root masses in the second most populous state of the Indian heartland.

UP might follow.

What will be your excuse then?

Will Modi agree for mid term elections if he loses UP??

 

[Śakra]

Some people can't think beyond religious lines.

 

[Soumitra]

All true.

Point is Modi lost.

And he was voted out by impoverished and grass root masses in the second most populous state of the Indian heartland.

UP might follow.

What will be your excuse then?

Will Modi agree for mid term elections if he loses UP??

Yes Modi lost Bihar

Yes it was a setback

UP Might follow - Doubtful - There is no mahagathbandhan in UP

If UP is lost will it be a setback - Yes it will indicate that demonetization and other steps were not well received by the people. I will be the first to admit it. BJP will have to do some major course correction

Will it lead to mid term elections - No. Modi has been elected for 5 year term till 2019 and he will complete his term

 

[adil_minhas]

Yes Modi lost Bihar

Yes it was a setback

UP Might follow - Doubtful - There is no mahagathbandhan in UP

If UP is lost will it be a setback - Yes it will indicate that demonetization and other steps were not well received by the people. I will be the first to admit it. BJP will have to do some major course correction

Will it lead to mid term elections - No. Modi has been elected for 5 year term till 2019 and he will complete his term

You may wish. But if he loses UP, there is going to be a concerted push for elections.

 

[Soumitra]

You may wish. But if he loses UP, there is going to be a concerted push for elections.

Push from whom? BJP will not push for elections. opposition parties may try but they will not be successful. Moreover right now there coffers are depleted by 5 state elections so they wont be ready to spend again so soon on the lok sabha polls

Ultimately there wont be mid term polls. You can take that as a guarantee