Indian Muslims are out to prove their loyalty once again.

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

This is just one of the reasons why i avoid and always requests people to not engage in this kind of discussions because than it goes a very very long way buddy and there will almost be no end to this.

For Kashmiris, it is clear as night and day.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Like I have said a million times.. the test isn't if Pakistanis are or are not true Muslims. Under Islamic Akeedah and Quranic law you cannot fight a war on behalf of a Hindu Nation against one which professes the Shahaadat and Kalamaa.

Your lack of education; nothing we can do about it.

India is a secular nation, not a Hindu one.

Second, you should re-read your holy book and understand that the test is about the Muslim Ummah, not individual nation-states. At that time, there were no nation-states; no nation-state can lay claim, likewise, to being the citadel of Muslims.

It isn't about the genuineness of Pakistanis Islam. It's their declaration.

It is also the declaration of a Muslim Indian. So what happens to that? How does a Muslim Pakistani have the nerve to fight a declared Muslim?

Fact. Most Indian Muslims know this fact but may not state it out of fear.

So not stating something out of ignorance is trumped by not stating that due to fear.
One learns every day.

Their alliance in war against a Muslim nation they will be raised amongst the idol worshippers on the day of judgement... A very severe consequence.

LOL. Good try.

It isn't about the number of Muslims India has or doesn't have. Even if it only had one ... That one Muslim is forbidden under Islamic Akeedah to fight against another Muslim nation under the banner of "Hindustan"... Or conversely if India of 100 million muslims fought a small Muslim nation of Brunei with only 10 millions muslims... The 100 Million Indian Muslims are forbidden to fight. Period.



Exactly my point. I am not not are the Indian Muslims the ones to judge who's professes are genuine and who's are not.

If one says the Shahaadat period and says the are a Muslim... That is it.

I am having a difficult time trying to convey the basic tenets.. but every Muslims knows... You cannot join a kafir army and fight a Muslim nation (no matter if you think that Muslim nation us truely Muslim or not).

Basic facts...

You are having a difficult time because there is nothing logical in what you say. For starters, the nonsensical concept of a Muslim nation. Nations cannot be Muslim; only individuals can.

so your forefathers left and run away from the dream for which we secrify.. our forefathers stay there and they fight for that dream. no disrespect but millions died for it and billions are ready to die for it..

Read his testimony carefully, and you will learn why it was worthless for him to stay. For that you have to read carefully - sincerely.

So you admit you are no authority to speak on it....yet you keep going on about it. Very strange.

I thought a wise old bird like you would have overheard what he said,"Having lost sight of my objectives, I redoubled my efforts."

I am not... I am just referencing Islamic tenants and the Quran. Go back a few posts.

Besides.. If you don't believe me ask a practicing Mulsim about what I just said.

You will get your answer.

He would agree as far as one individual and another is concerned. He would be told about what you have been saying, and would bury his face in his palm.

in kashmir they are in majority and they can protect in good numbers. but think if you living under RSS goons and you have no other choice but to fight for your family. what do you think..

They don't need bozos from Muridke then. Why don't you spread the word around, and increase the average life-span there in one stroke?

You are correct about China and the concerns with the treatment of the Uyghurs.

But we are not going to war against China and I am not out to kill Chinese Muslims.

But let's say the China attacks Pakistan... The Chinese Uyghurs would be forbidden from attacking Pakistan as per Islamic Akeedah. They cannot fight Pakistan or any other "so-called' Muslim nation by joining a Kafir nation.

The so-called Muslim nation doesn't even have to be a "good" or "practicing" Muslim... But if it's citizens profess Islam as their Deen... That makes them unlawful for Chinese Muslims to attack them .

It remains, in your words, a 'so-called' Muslim nation. There is nothing called a Muslim nation. There are as many Chinese Muslims professing Islam as their deen. Why should you be inviolable and not they?

 

[Mugwop]

I met an Indian Muslim Gujarati man in his early 50s few months ago and he randomly decided to talk about Pakistani politics and corruption whilst i was at a grocery store. I had never come across this person before. As the conversation evolved I kindly told him corruption exists but its a huge problem in the entire south Asian region. He tapped my shoulder as he was stumbling away and said in broken urdu 'I'm very happy my forefathers chose to live in India and not move to Pakistan, truly I'm greatful for their wise decision' my reply 'uncle you are not in India you are in England' lol

I would have slapped him dead in the face.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I would have slapped him dead in the face.

Ah, but that was in England, not in India. You would have landed up in jail.

We could pass the hat around for a ticket for you, if you ask nicely.

then let them eat beef... will you allow them. Just a question

Only if I get a steak done medium rare, myself; I hate curries.

What an ignorant **** can go around thinking!

 

[Mugwop]

You’re not making any sense.
They are Indian Muslims and are loyal to India. They have no wish to be part of Pakistan nor have any love for it.
Not sure why you think they will like Pakistan for being just Muslims.

Or are you of the opinion that all Muslims love each other? Because if you are of that opinion, I suggest simply looking at the events of the last two decades.

Also, Pakistan has been China’s lapdog forever and China is not just mistreating muslims but is against ALL religion.
Yet you see no problem in calling yourself Muslim and having your state side with China.

It’s hard to take you seriously when Pakistanis display such blatant and shameless hypocrisy

india is the world's most anti-muslim and racist country and they bharti muslims are showing loyalty to it. Others may not like them here but I do feel bad for them. J/K

China treats Pakistan like an equal partner only indians think that way because they are narrow minded.
Chinese " Han"despise weeghurs not muslims themselves.If that was the case there wouldn't be alliance between us.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Under Islamic doctrine, the worst kind of sin is idolatry. No Muslim is allowed to join an army of idol worshippers especially to fight an opposing army of muslims. Because by doing ng so, if you are killed amongst them you will be raised on the Day of Judgement along with them and judged as one of them.

You are giving examples of Muslims what they did as individuals... I am referencing Islam Akeedah. Those are two different things.

The difference is that this is not an army of idol-worshippers; it is an army of a secular nation, where a large number of idol-worshippers live. Try to understand the difference.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

House Negros.

There was the house Negro and the field Negro. The house Negroes – they lived in the house with master, they dressed pretty good, they ate good ’cause they ate his food — what he left. They lived in the attic or the basement, but still they lived near the master; and they loved their master more than the master loved himself. They would give their life to save the master’s house quicker than the master would.

The house Negro, if the master said, “We got a good house here,” the house Negro would say, “Yeah, we got a good house here.” Whenever the master said, “we,” he said “we.” That’s how you can tell a house Negro. If the master’s house caught on fire, the house Negro would fight harder to put the blaze out than the master would. If the master got sick, the house Negro would say, “What’s the matter, boss, we sick?” We sick! He identified himself with his master more than his master identified with himself.

And if you came to the house Negro and said, “Let’s run away, let’s escape, let’s separate,” the house Negro would look at you and say, “Man, you crazy. What you mean, separate? Where is there a better house than this? Where can I wear better clothes than this? Where can I eat better food than this?”

That was that house Negro. In those days he was called a “house nigger.” And that’s what we call him today, because we’ve still got some house niggers running around here.
-MALCOLM X

Muslims have forgot the spirit of Islam---Muhajireen who were from the Quresh tribe uniting with Aws and Kazarj in the name of one Allah and Islam against the Mushrikeen of Mecca who were their own blood relatives...Alas, the idol of "watan" is held in more esteem than the teachings of Islam, and in the name of watan, Muslims are willing to support a Mushrik power in committing atrocities against Kashmiris who refuse to be "House negros".
@Desert Fox @Hakikat ve Hikmet @MUSTAKSHAF @Areesh @Pakhtoon yum @Taimur Khurram

House Negros.

There was the house Negro and the field Negro. The house Negroes – they lived in the house with master, they dressed pretty good, they ate good ’cause they ate his food — what he left. They lived in the attic or the basement, but still they lived near the master; and they loved their master more than the master loved himself. They would give their life to save the master’s house quicker than the master would.

The house Negro, if the master said, “We got a good house here,” the house Negro would say, “Yeah, we got a good house here.” Whenever the master said, “we,” he said “we.” That’s how you can tell a house Negro. If the master’s house caught on fire, the house Negro would fight harder to put the blaze out than the master would. If the master got sick, the house Negro would say, “What’s the matter, boss, we sick?” We sick! He identified himself with his master more than his master identified with himself.

And if you came to the house Negro and said, “Let’s run away, let’s escape, let’s separate,” the house Negro would look at you and say, “Man, you crazy. What you mean, separate? Where is there a better house than this? Where can I wear better clothes than this? Where can I eat better food than this?”

That was that house Negro. In those days he was called a “house nigger.” And that’s what we call him today, because we’ve still got some house niggers running around here.
-MALCOLM X

Muslims have forgot the spirit of Islam---Muhajireen who were from the Quresh tribe uniting with Aws and Kazarj in the name of one Allah and Islam against the Mushrikeen of Mecca who were their own blood relatives...Alas, the idol of "watan" is held in more esteem than the teachings of Islam, and in the name of watan, Muslims are willing to support a Mushrik power in committing atrocities against Kashmiris who refuse to be "House negros".
@Desert Fox @Hakikat ve Hikmet @MUSTAKSHAF @Areesh @Pakhtoon yum @Taimur Khurram

They just want to survive, that being said they have made us their enemies by resorting to such cowardice acts

 

[Psychic]

First tell me, does your formula apply to KSA too? Because they sided with America against another Muslim country during gulf war.

Now are you asking about what Islam tells us about it or what the modern realpolitiks tell us to do since you guys seem to confuse those two alot by making fun of Ummah etc. Let me make it clear first that the Ummah is not some forgery of a modern day frustrated Muslim, it was the teaching of the prophet and our religion which has been forgotten by the modern day Muslim. You can make fun of it all you want but a Muslim who rejects the concept of ummah is committing a grave sin by rejecting the teachings of Islam---it is the same as many Muslims drink but drinking is not allowed in Islam to begin with.

Coming to the Gulf war, do tell me if Kuwait was a non-Muslim nation which had invaded Iraq? Or was Saddam running his govt according to the Islamic principles? Those wars were all about "Arab Nationalism"... Those wars were not jihad to begin with and were fought over oil and land, which is not permissible in Islam to begin with. Islam tells us to fight oppression and injustice very clearly.

Any wars fought in the name of nation, tribe , color or creed, oil, gold and booty are forbidden in Islam. The only war allowed by Islam is jihad under the banner of Islam, justice and ONE Allah. Any Muslim siding with the non-Muslims against those who are waging a jihad is committing a sin regardless if he is a Saudi, Indian or Pakistani- period.... regardless if he is General Musharraf siding with the US or Indian Muslims siding with Modi.

Now for those who continuously challenge the certificates of major sin awarded to those who side with kafir army to fight fellow Muslims;
If one is sent to wage war against the Muslims, then it is not permissible for him to take part at all. Helping the kaafirs against the Muslims is a form of major kufr which puts one beyond the pale of Islam. Allaah says concerning one who supports the mushrikeen (interpretation of the meaning):
"And if any amongst you takes them (as Awliyaa’, i.e., friends), then surely, he is one of them"[al-Maa’idah 5:51] - Here's the certificate you have been challenging- from the Quran itself.
And the alliances with non-Muslims usually are done whenever there is a mutual benefit--- Just like the Prophet(P.B.U.H) concluded a treaty with the Jews of Yathrib...against the people who were threatening Islam and Muslims.
Allaah says about the munaafiqoon (hypocrites) who prefer the kuffaar to the Muslims (interpretation of the meaning) “… [they] say to the disbelievers that they are better guided as regards the way than the believers (Muslims).” -Nisa 51
As regards to compromising with kafirs (disbelievers) and being nice to them at the expense of one’s religion. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “They wish that you should compromise (in religion out of courtesy) with them, so that they (too) would compromise with you.” [al-Qalam 68:9]. This includes sitting with them and entering upon them at the time when they are making fun of the Signs of Allaah. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And it has already been revealed to you in the Book that when you hear the Verses of Allaah being denied and mocked at, then sit not with them, until they engage in a talk other than that; (but if you stayed with them), certainly in that case you would be like them…” [al-Nisa’ 4:140]
We have seen how on this very forum, muslim members have made fun of Islamic concepts such as sharia, jihad, hijab and ummah---just like the kaffirs do, just so that they can look like a good Western style Muslim who has abandoned those "out dated" ideals. The same is the case with Indian Muslims who attack Pakistan with their tongues to jump on the anti-Pakistan rhetoric bandwagon and to look acceptable to the Indian majority.

And it is an obligation for a Muslim to help and free occupied and oppressed Muslims.
How should ye not fight for the cause of Allah and of the feeble among men and of the women and the children who are crying: Our Lord! Bring us forth from out this town of which the people are oppressors! Oh, give us from thy presence some protecting friend! Oh, give us from Thy presence some defender! -Nisa 75
The world has already witnessed that Muslims from all over the world flocked to Afghanistan, Bosnia, Chechnya to defend their Muslim brothers---our rulers however are another story, who have brainwashed and enforced secularism and ethno-nationalism on their nations(The so called great leaders like "Ata-Turk").

What Muslim countries do and what Islam instructs us to do are two entirely different things. Most Muslim countries are secular. What the Muslim states and their rulers do is not necessarily what Islam teaches them to do.
@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Desert Fox @Clutch @Taimur Khurram

@Nilgiri I know that you won't agree and will dislike what I have said. But I am not like those semi-secular or secular Muslims who have forgotten their roots and are desperately trying to conform to the values of the modern world. I consider my beliefs to be unshakable despite the fact that many of my own countrymen do not agree with such "extreme" views.

 

[Mugwop]

Ah, but that was in England, not in India. You would have landed up in jail.

We could pass the hat around for a ticket for you, if you ask nicely.



Only if I get a steak done medium rare, myself; I hate curries.

What an ignorant **** can go around thinking!

If I can survive in a jail then UK jail is cake to me. I have 0 tolerance for extreme nationalists and racial supremacists.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Long live Sudi wahhabi and Indian brothership

Pakistanis should wake up

You instantly gripped their entire attention. Marvellous and well-timed. Were you this bright even as a baby?

Did u miss a few???
Just a while back i wrote in another thread that my encounter with indians as an individual and as a group is totally different...
As an individual they will move to brotherhood, shanti, same people and sanity.. Etc.. in no time. But as a group they are like spewing filth against paksitan like they didnt say a word before hand. I actually took a few to task openly and as expected they were furious in front of their countrymen and later in private they were telling me to understand that the others dont have that approach towards pakistan as they dont know truth so i need to be careful ...
Hypocrites...
Now coming to indian muslims.. True patriots.. No ifs and buts about it. But they are subdued, oppressed and opportunistic ppl. But they are undoubtedly still patriotic indians. Many blame jinnah for dividing the ummah as that would have made muslims more stronger. They have a flawed history of partotion and i have given a few books from pakistani and international writers which was difficult for them to say the least.
Before u try to start ur mantra on muslim leaders, to muslim president and high ups.. Plz look at the indian statistics on percentage of muslims in india and their percentage in government institutions and education / literacy. There is a reason that after south indians, muslims are in the majority indians in GCC. I can go on to tell stories of what they tell me about their lives in india but that would not serve the purpose of this discusison and would derail the topic in hand.

Indians, as a nation... I like their business sense and approach to wards jobs and work ethics. But they are a victim to their media and their political parties.
Even before pulwama or before uri or even before mumbai.. One favorite topic of discussion in poitical gatherings/jalsa and on tv talk shows is Pakistan. U wont see that in pakistan. But indians are fed anti pak feelings on the same tune as south koreans and japanese are fed hate towards north korean regimen. They then carry that feeling forever. U can be friends with an indian (hindu/muslim) like brothers but the moment they sit amongst each other they will bash pakistanis and they will team up for each other which is the 2nd best to how tamils, keralities or other south indians rally or team up for each others. I guess amongst the few things out there, anti pakistan rhetoric unites the indians.

Brilliant effort.

I tried to apply this formula and failed. Whether I am among a crowd of Pakistanis, or a crowd of Indians, my opinions don't change. I haven't found any others who change their opinions the way you say either. It seems that you live in an unreal land of dreams. I suggest you go back to sleep.

that is because they dont have you for a neighbor.

india's long list of follies

> terrorism in east Pakistan, sindh, baluchistan
> Shameless viotlation of the indus water treaty
> mass murder and rape in Kashmir

Nations that don't have India as a neighbour and have Pakistan instead:

• Iran
• Afghanistan

What a brilliant point to make.

 

[Psychic]

They just want to survive, that being said they have made us their enemies by resorting to such cowardice acts

Not all of them want to survive---the mentality of Deoband, Rai Bareli, Maulana Azad is still very much alive.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Just so you know I rarely respond to people who have fewer than 1000 posts in forum.

Mistake (in my opinion). Judging by current standards, try making it 2000 posts.

Fewer still to those I really do not know anything about...and talked nothing to before.

And even fewer for those that type in really hard to read format (long monobloc sentences with weirdest use of paragraphs).

Exceptions are earned, not given.

It's really dull talking to the same dozen people over and over again.

For your kind info....
I am used to this attitude from indians as this is what they do when facts are put forward.. This aint the first time and wont be the last.

I but over the years have found you to be quite a reasonable person who is more brains than heart i.e. logic vs emotions.... Guess i was wrong.

Have a good day mate

Did you ever stop to ask others about yourself, I wonder? Or is it a one-way street?

None of which is true.

And that does what, exactly, to stop a fan-boy from sounding off?

no buddy then your definition is totally wrong.. millions moved to pakistan. at least they can eat beef easly. they become atomic power. they are developing jets. their woman are safe.. they don’t need to worry about anything. yeha nations do face problems but we are doing great now.. most of all we have pm Ik and they have cahi wala. most of all ask kashmiris and palestinians what is worth to have country

The Kashmiri says that he is oppressed in his own land, after declaring Azad Kashmir, welcoming the tribals going on into the Vale, and supporting Pakistan for seventy years. That is why 44% of them wished that they were independent when polled by Pew.

 

[PradoTLC]

You instantly gripped their entire attention. Marvellous and well-timed. Were you this bright even as a baby?






Nations that don't have India as a neighbour and have Pakistan instead:

• Iran
• Afghanistan

What a brilliant point to make.

Afgoonistan: Pretty soon they will be over run by the Afgan Taliban. according you people we are best friends. So that problem will be over soon. Even india know which way the wind is blowing... and hence the "secret" talks with taliban

Iran: oh this is funny. yes we have border management issues more to do with lack our regular army posted there as even the iranis admit they cannot defend the border with out Pakistan's help. but do not even try to equate with Kashmir.

Kashmir is something you shamelessly cheated and stole. Muslim majority lands should have gone to Pakistan. But as usual you broke agreement and relying on a faggot of a hindu king to sign accession to india.

Muslim rulers behave so much better, giving up their state to hindu india due to large hindu populations

 

[Joe Shearer]

to a brain washed indian dipped in lies sure...


Kashmir 'mass rape' survivors fight for justice - BBC News - BBC.com

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-41268906
View attachment 540545Oct 7, 2017 - The people of Kunan and neighbouring Poshpora accuse the Indian army of carrying out a planned mass rape of the women in these two ..


How Indian forces turned a woman's wedding into carnage - Herald

https://herald.dawn.com/news/1398554
View attachment 540546
Jun 3, 2018 - Tucked into the hills of southern Kashmir's Anantnag district, ..... It is very courageous to take about her gang rape by the Indian Army.

.


want more?

how about samjota express bombing???

As against the 70-year record of oppression that you have to show? This is what? Another dick-measuring contest where the greatest oppressor of minorities wins? You win - hands down.

Get ready for personal attacks bro. You are a prime target now. How dare you put forward facts to the misled.
Anyways gr8 going mate. Keep up the gud work

....and one more chairborne warrior gets to be an ace, by popular acclaim.

 

[Tshering22]

1. There will not be any war. Anyone, be it Pakistani or Indian thinking that there is going to be one, is only dreaming of one - considering that they are not even going to participate in the conflict
2. At the most, there will be targeted strikes against border terrorist hideouts across the border, or maybe intelligence agency foul play from either side (which already happens)
3. More than any Indian muslim, I think the Secular/Liberal/Communist (SLC) population will be more pro-Pakistan in any war. India needs to be aware and apprehend this section of the society.
4. Some pockets like Kannur, Pulwama, Bareilly, Malda, Murshidabad, Osmanabad etc. might have elements supportive of Pakistan, but they can easily be weeded out.
5. The SLC population is the threat. They don't seem to be Islamists by their name and demeanor, but are worse than ISIS. They need to be tracked and hunted down. Once their poisoning is over, there would be no traitors, irrespective of religion or community.

For Kashmiris, it is clear as night and day.

A section of Kashmir Sunnis. Not everyone.

That's where your wet dream ends. Funny how they were silent for all throughout 50s, 60s, 70s etc when everyone went there and had a good time and they were peaceful and friendly.