India may install israeli systems on rafale

[janon]

Suggest some hindustani members to learn manners on a professional defense forum.

The point is you passed an Aircraft because you got satisfied with its performance and all the complete package it is/would be offering. Now you switch you plans to include third party for many of its Systems...basically you are insulting Dassault..Dassault would go ahead with slapping you with no Thankyou look for someone else, knowing neither US not Nor Euro consortium would allow this dirty idea of alternate plans if you pick their Aircraft...

jat balwan...who told you about cost cuttings??? Hindustan is buying a whole lot & then planning modification ....why are you so angry about it mate??? we`ll deal wtih french.

member, I'm not mad about anything, I am here to post my view whether someone likes it or not as a member of this forum, please post standard posts.

Indeed it is cost cutting Dassault would not allow it. This particular potential deal does not allow buyer to modify by third party except for local upgrades IF buyer has the potential equipment-system available BUT MRCA will be paid in Full to the winner.


go of death...We will do whatever it takes to make our fighter jets more and more lethal and advance.

Does it mean you have no confidence in French Systems, Does it mean all that choosing the best out there in MRCA contest was a drama and not based on merit, So does it mean Rafale has no lethal systems and not advance enough, I'll ask again where is dr. somnath to clarify it to you people not to me because I do like Rafale F-3.

I was hoping a sensable professional contributor would join in here because there is a thread running by dr. somnath that is praising Rafale to the edge including you thanks and some other and here you say Rafale is terrible and it needs israeli system to be advanced.

You are a senior member, don't twist logic like this. Just because we replace SOME systems or subsystems on an aircraft doesn't mean the aircraft is terrible. Nobody here said anything like that. We selected rafale in the MRCA competition because it was found to be the best aircraft available for purchase on the world market. Airframe-wise, it is better in air-to-air combat than anything flying in the neighbourhood, and air-to-ground, it is more capable than anything flying in the neighbourhood. As simple as that. Now we also see that some of the systems on it have more advanced versions available from 3rd party manufacturers, and we want to spend OUR money to give the best to OUR forces. It is in keeping with what we have done with other aircrafts in the past. Almost every aircraft in IAF inventory has subsystems from 3rd party manufacturers, superior to the ones developed by the OEM.

It is not a binary choice between advanced versus terrible. There are many levels in between. An advanced plane can become more advanced, without the original having to be deemed terrible. Are you sure you are really unaware of this?

 

[turkish]

go of death...We will do whatever it takes to make our fighter jets more and more lethal and advance.

Does it mean you have no confidence in French Systems, Does it mean all that choosing the best out there in MRCA contest was a drama and not based on merit, So does it mean Rafale has no lethal systems and not advance enough, I'll ask again where is dr. somnath to clarify it to you people not to me because I do like Rafale F-3.

I was hoping a sensable professional contributor would join in here because there is a thread running by dr. somnath that is praising Rafale to the edge including you thanks and some other and here you say Rafale is terrible and it needs israeli system to be advanced.

You missed the part which says " MORE" ...what India does is it takes a system and tries to make it more lethal ... Just as the MKI where we added French, Israeli and Indian Parts to make it better.... dan the base product .. Where many countries after that wanted their SU 30 to be like ours....

As far as manners are concern... Well!! you deserve what you get... You ask stupid question the reply wont be stupid but it will show you where you stand .....Hence you dont like them...

 

[Adir-M]

 

[God of Death]

With increased defense co operation with Saudi Arabia, Israel must also be thinking any shared technology with india has potential to reach enemy hand.

On the contrary Israeli thinks that it will be good that it will be used against pakistan

 

[Luftwaffe]

You missed the part which says " MORE" ...what India does is it takes a system and tries to make it more lethal ... Just as the MKI where we added French, Israeli and Indian Parts to make it better.... dan the base product .. Where many countries after that wanted their SU 30 to be like ours....

As far as manners are concern... Well!! you deserve what you get... You ask stupid question the reply wont be stupid but it will show you where you stand .....Hence you dont like them...

Hi thankyou for your useless post you might be sent on a trip soon.

No you missed the point...MRCA outlines there will be no Third Party involved the Package would be complete from the winner of MRCA in the case France...Remember israelis stole mirage blue prints...this is not going to happen in Rafale's case Nope.

 

[janon]

Hi thankyou for your useless post you might be sent on a trip soon.

No you missed the point...MRCA outlines there will be no Third Party involved the Package would be complete from the winner of MRCA in the case France...Remember israelis stole mirage blue prints...this is not going to happen in Rafale's case Nope.

How do you know this? Do you have priviledged access to the tender? Please give a source which says that there is such a stipulation. If not, stop making stuff up.

 

[jackyy]

Hi thankyou for your useless post you might be sent on a trip soon.

No you missed the point...MRCA outlines there will be no Third Party involved the Package would be complete from the winner of MRCA in the case France...Remember israelis stole mirage blue prints...this is not going to happen in Rafale's case Nope.

French will give TOT and obviously there will be money for it too(as told by french earlier).
its upto india how to assemble the plane by incorporating any tool from any country.

 

[Luftwaffe]

You are a senior member, don't twist logic like this. Just because we replace SOME systems or subsystems on an aircraft doesn't mean the aircraft is terrible. Nobody here said anything like that. We selected rafale in the MRCA competition because it was found to be the best aircraft available for purchase on the world market. Airframe-wise, it is better in air-to-air combat than anything flying in the neighbourhood, and air-to-ground, it is more capable than anything flying in the neighbourhood. As simple as that. Now we also see that some of the systems on it have more advanced versions available from 3rd party manufacturers, and we want to spend OUR money to give the best to OUR forces. It is in keeping with what we have done with other aircrafts in the past. Almost every aircraft in IAF inventory has subsystems from 3rd party manufacturers, superior to the ones developed by the OEM.

It is not a binary choice between advanced versus terrible. There are many levels in between. An advanced plane can become more advanced, without the original having to be deemed terrible. Are you sure you are really unaware of this?

Then the Thread becomes useless with your Post ending the confusing among you hindustani peers that Rafale is in need of israeli Systems...Performance and Systems wise Rafale won the contest which means Rafale satisfied IAF which mean it is Advanced enough now when people come up with "we need more advanced systems" then you could have chosen American F-18 where israelis-US would be been more accommodating or America offering more choice...remember you people have been saying US offered F-35 obviously US could have offered better Advanced Systems. You people obviously are confused. Let me end the confusing Rafale needs no external Systems to make it Advanced IAF is satisfied as of Now which means it is mere speculations and false roumors, According to the MRCA Deal; Third Party Systems are not allowed..Dassault is in no mood to ruin their Deals specially thieves like israel.

 

[jackyy]

Then the Thread becomes useless with your Post ending the confusing among you hindustani peers that Rafale is in need of israeli Systems...Performance and Systems wise Rafale won the contest which means Rafale satisfied IAF which mean it is Advanced enough now when people come up with "we need more advanced systems" then you could have chosen American F-18 where israelis-US would be been more accommodating or America offering more choice...remember you people have been saying US offered F-35 obviously US could have offered better Advanced Systems. You people obviously are confused. Let me end the confusing Rafale needs no external Systems to make it Advanced IAF is satisfied as of Now which means it is mere speculations and false roumors, According to the MRCA Deal; Third Party Systems are not allowed..Dassault is in no mood to ruin their Deals specially thieves like israel.

i think you are forgetting that you earlier decided to go for french avionics in jf-17
but later on chinese were used due to lack of funds

 

[angeldemon_007]

At this time, India is most interested in Rafael’s Litening pod, which is used for navigation and for locating ground targets.

Well whatever French would do, Indian Rafale is going to have lightening pod. Also i think IAF would have made this thing clear right from the beginning of MMRCA, so i doubt French would be surprised or cause any problems in this case.

 

[nikhilarya]

it happened before my friend, India been the only country to integrate french, Israel (NATO) sub-systems in a Russian aircraft, and rest is future, anything can happen. get prepare for wonders

 

[Luftwaffe]

How do you know this? Do you have priviledged access to the tender? Please give a source which says that there is such a stipulation. If not, stop making stuff up.

Because the Total Price is Fixed..IF IAF is planning to exclude French Systems from Rafale, it puts % loss in the deal now for 126 Planes, Dassault would have some heavy losses, I think Dassault already gave enough concessions on MRCA Tender, They would never go below the range The deal is Setup for...Hindustan cannot come up with an excuse to cut the cost a billion dollars less oh we found israeli systems better or Advance...According to the Thread Dr. somnath is running Rafale is more than what IAF needed then why do you need isreali inputs what is missing in Rafale that you are turning to israelis...For integration you would need French permission, one option would be pay French they like being paid for and go for Third Party IF hindustan wants to and IF French would allow it than a plus point IF not you are going to be locked in with only French.

 

[livingdead]

Then the Thread becomes useless with your Post ending the confusing among you hindustani peers that Rafale is in need of israeli Systems...Performance and Systems wise Rafale won the contest which means Rafale satisfied IAF which mean it is Advanced enough now when people come up with "we need more advanced systems" then you could have chosen American F-18 where israelis-US would be been more accommodating or America offering more choice...remember you people have been saying US offered F-35 obviously US could have offered better Advanced Systems. You people obviously are confused. Let me end the confusing Rafale needs no external Systems to make it Advanced IAF is satisfied as of Now which means it is mere speculations and false roumors, According to the MRCA Deal; Third Party Systems are not allowed..Dassault is in no mood to ruin their Deals specially thieves like israel.

This is ongoing bargaining. If Indian side does anything wrong, the rival company will haul it to court. The stakes are quite high, nobody will like anything funny here.
Can you post the relevent section of the tender where it says India will take the aircraft in toto only? Did not not read that the MMRCA deal ranges between 10 billion to 20 billion USD depending on package we will buy?
The hard negotiation starts now, and both sides will try to extract as much from other side.

 

[janon]

Then the Thread becomes useless with your Post ending the confusing among you hindustani peers that Rafale is in need of israeli Systems...Performance and Systems wise Rafale won the contest which means Rafale satisfied IAF which mean it is Advanced enough now when people come up with "we need more advanced systems" then you could have chosen American F-18 where israelis-US would be been more accommodating or America offering more choice...remember you people have been saying US offered F-35 obviously US could have offered better Advanced Systems. You people obviously are confused. Let me end the confusing Rafale needs no external Systems to make it Advanced IAF is satisfied as of Now which means it is mere speculations and false roumors, According to the MRCA Deal; Third Party Systems are not allowed..Dassault is in no mood to ruin their Deals specially thieves like israel.

Not allowed by who, you? I told you before, if you have information on such a stipulation, please provide the source. If not, stop making stuff up.

About the rest of the post, at this point I do not wish to repeat it or try to make you understand, because I cannot quite make up my mind as to whether you really don't understand the concept of making an advanced plane more advanced, or you are just pretending that you don't get the point. We have already tried to explain to you, it just seems increedible that you can;t understand something that is so commonly practised. As another example, pakistan tried to get French systems on JF-17, despite being satisfied enough with it to make it the future backbone of their future fleet. The attempt failed, but that is another issue.

 

[majesticpankaj]

@luftwaffe... sir do you forget during kargil how the french looked the other way when we did the upgrades on mirage ?

Anything is possible because by the time we will induct rafale we will be more powerful.