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India cannot always be at odds with Pakistan

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Bhairava

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Former national security adviser MK Narayanan, now the governor of West Bengal, has always been a hawk. That he differed with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on improving relations with Pakistan, does not come as a surprise to those who have followed his career from the days of his service in the intelligence agencies. Even then, his reports are said to have been anti-Pakistan. Such bureaucrats, on both sides, have not allowed normalisation between the two countries. And they are still at it.

I was amazed when Narayanan was appointed as the national security adviser (NSA). I could tell why, when I was told that he was close to the ‘dynasty’. His loyalty was tested during Mrs Indira Gandhi’s authoritarian rule and he came out on top. In the beginning, there were two advisers, one for politics and another for security. When former foreign secretary JN Dixit, heading the political side died, both segments came under Narayanan, thanks again to his proximity to the ‘dynasty’.
I admire the patience of Singh who put up with Narayanan for such a long time. Maybe, the prime minister could not convince the ‘dynasty’ that Narayanan should be moved elsewhere because he was not on the same page with him when it came to relations between India and Pakistan. Probably, the history of rapprochement between the two countries could have been different if Narayanan had not been the NSA.

A US diplomat cable released by the WikiLeaks says that when Mamohan Singh spoke about India’s shared destiny with Pakistan, Narayanan reportedly said: “You have a shared destiny, we do not.” There is no reason to disbelieve the report, particularly when India’s Foreign Office (FO) has expressed its inability to comment on it. Narayanan is the one who can throw light but he has preferred to keep silent on this aspect, although he has said that India wanted the custody of David Headley, a US citizen, who has had a hand in the Mumbai terrorist attacks.

Narayanan’s successor, Shiv Shankar Menon, was high commissioner at Islamabad. I found him to be a person who believed that India and Pakistan should be on the best of terms. I believe he has, of late, undergone a change, not on people-to-people contact, but the limit to which India should go to make up with Pakistan. He was not in favour of separating terrorism from talks as Singh had agreed at Sharm el-Sheikh. Menon is not yet a hawk, like Narayanan, but reportedly differs with Singh, who is willing to go the extra mile to make up with Pakistan.

Even during a memorial lecture that Menon delivered at New Delhi recently, he was equivocal on India’s future relations with Pakistan. He gave all credit to Singh for the positive, forward-looking policy and for his keenness in burying the hatchet with Pakistan.

But Menon was diffident to share his vision.

Therefore, our FO and the NSA are often seen at loggerheads with the prime minister’s office on relations with Pakistan. I can understand the burden of history becoming too heavy for a north Indian or a Punjabi who has suffered because of Partition. But both Narayanan and Menon belong to Kerala, the tip of the south and it is strange that the two top officials, particularly Narayanan, who even sabotaged the prime minister’s effort, should continue to occupy key positions in the government.

But them and others, who oppose friendship with Pakistan, do not seem to realise that India cannot always be preparing for a war or defense of its territory if it has to grow economically. They may come to the conclusion one day, as some fanatics in Pakistan are realising now, that there is no alternative to peace. Even a hardliner like General Pervez Musharraf, who started with a policy of fire and brimstone, ultimately came to infer that Pakistanis and Indians had to live as friendly neighbours. He agreed to the present borders but proposed how to make them irrelevant. His formula is still lying somewhere in Pakistan’s FO, accumulating dust. But the formula should have been the starting point for the talks going on behind the scenes.

That Singh remains positive is a plus point to our otherwise wishy-washy foreign policy.

India cannot always be at odds with Pakistan – The Express Tribune


Excellent reply from Mr.Narayanan.

I think MMS's emotional bonds with his land of birth is clouding his opinion regarding Pakistan and as Mr.Narayanan said "We no longer share a destiny".

Our destinies are different. This reminds of one member justanobserver's comment that South Indians are better at handling Pakistan because of the absence of the love/hate relationship certain sections of North Indians and Punjabis in particular have for Pakistan and their ability to think coldly on purely national interest plane without any emotional mumbo jumbo clouding their judgement.

I disagree with Kuldip Nayyar (incidentally a Punjabi) when he says India cannot always be at odds with Pakistan. Yes we can. Peace is good but we do not need to bend over backwards like MMS is doing to achieve it.

Mr.Narayanan reflects the will of the overwhelming majority of the Indians when he says "you have a shared destiny,we do not" and when he opposed separation of Terror from talks as MMS foolishgly agreed at Sharm-El-Sheikh.

Mr.Narayanan is not a hawk,Mr.Nayyar. He is a cold pragmatist who is able to see above historical bonds. It is you who needs to remove your blinders.
 
@Punjabis,

Dont take that Im faulting everyine of you here. But some people like MMS and Kuldip Nayyar need to realize that the days of undivided Punjab are over and what remains is the Indian state of Punjab.

It is unfortunate to think that a state that gives the most number of soldiers to the Army also has these kinda people who are unable to rise above their hiistoric bonds and think in a pragmatic manner.
 
narendra modi is not an south indian politician but he really talked tough on taking action against pakistan after 26/11 , and said he will do the same if he becomes the PM , and let me tell you that we have more punjabi and bihari soldiers have fought for our nation in the indo - pak wars , we need people like narendra modi in the centre , who can make pakistan understand what india wants in its own language
 
narendra modi is not an south indian politician but he really talked tough on taking action against pakistan after 26/11 , and said he will do the same if he becomes the PM , and let me tell you that we have more punjabi and bihari soldiers have fought for our nation in the indo - pak wars , we need people like narendra modi in the centre , who can make pakistan understand what india wants in its own language

I understand bro. I was just saying about the complex love/hate relationship some sections of people in North India and Punjab have for Pakistan. Sometimes emotional atyachar clouds their rational thinking regarding Pakistan. South Indians dont share the love/hate relationship and hence are most of times better in charting Indo-Pak relations.

By love/hate relationship I mean its the North Indians and Punjabis in particular who are able to easily identify with the culture across the border causing the love and at other times hate them viscerally for events like Partition/the various invasions.

Its not a North vs South thread. Just the different lenses through which North Indians and South Indians sometimes look at Pakistanis.
 
India cannot always be at odds with Pakistan – The Express Tribune


Excellent reply from Mr.Narayanan.

I think MMS's emotional bonds with his land of birth is clouding his opinion regarding Pakistan and as Mr.Narayanan said "We no longer share a destiny".

Our destinies are different. This reminds of one member justanobserver's comment that South Indians are better at handling Pakistan because of the absence of the love/hate relationship certain sections of North Indians and Punjabis in particular have for Pakistan and their ability to think coldly on purely national interest plane without any emotional mumbo jumbo clouding their judgement.

I disagree with Kuldip Nayyar (incidentally a Punjabi) when he says India cannot always be at odds with Pakistan. Yes we can. Peace is good but we do not need to bend over backwards like MMS is doing to achieve it.

Mr.Narayanan reflects the will of the overwhelming majority of the Indians when he says "you have a shared destiny,we do not" and when he opposed separation of Terror from talks as MMS foolishgly agreed at Sharm-El-Sheikh.

Mr.Narayanan is not a hawk,Mr.Nayyar. He is a cold pragmatist who is able to see above historical bonds. It is you who needs to remove your blinders.

Agree with you there. I guess we just have to wait for this pre-partition generation to pass away and fade away only then can we really start thinking and doing what is good for India. .
 
Ppl need to simply accept that what existed in 47 was a chasm . It now has grown into a Gorge.

A Gorge filled with a deep rooted sense of insecurity, hatred , extreme ( Govt encouraged) fundamantalism and a never changing attitude of the PA / ISI on the Pak side & RSS hardliners in India.

The earlier we accept this & work thru this the sooner we shall get over the past & start treating each other as another country and not a long lost brother / friend/ neighbour.
 
I just joined the forum recently and I would like to give my opinion on this topic. My views are slightly unconventional if you compare them with the norm. But anyways, I believe that Indian and Pakistanis are the same people. Our ancestors, our culture, everything is widely the same. This hate relationship that we have, I do not really understand. Once you travel abroad (out of India/Pakistan), you'll be bound to notice (at least in my area) that Indian/Pakistanis get along just fine, almost as if they're from the same country. And instead of having that vicious hate that normally Pakistanis and Indians have against have against each other, it's the exact opposite.

The only reason Pakistanis and Indians hate each other is because this concept has been rooted into our systems and society, that we MUST hate India. Or that we MUST hate Pakistan. Of course, we've had wars against each other, and we've spilled each others blood, but if you really think about, the blood you've spilled was probably your distant cousin. So, in all honesty, the jokes on you.

Nonetheless, we must have hope in our education and future to eliminate this negative thinking. We are quite competitive against each other and thus that gives us both an advantage (arm's race, technologically) but if we have a future where we both get along amicably, we will be at a bigger advantage (morally, emotionally, economically, financially, politically etc.)
 
I just joined the forum recently and I would like to give my opinion on this topic. My views are slightly unconventional if you compare them with the norm. But anyways, I believe that Indian and Pakistanis are the same people. Our ancestors, our culture, everything is widely the same. This hate relationship that we have, I do not really understand. Once you travel abroad (out of India/Pakistan), you'll be bound to notice (at least in my area) that Indian/Pakistanis get along just fine, almost as if they're from the same country. And instead of having that vicious hate that normally Pakistanis and Indians have against have against each other, it's the exact opposite.

The only reason Pakistanis and Indians hate each other is because this concept has been rooted into our systems and society, that we MUST hate India. Or that we MUST hate Pakistan. Of course, we've had wars against each other, and we've spilled each others blood, but if you really think about, the blood you've spilled was probably your distant cousin. So, in all honesty, the jokes on you.

Nonetheless, we must have hope in our education and future to eliminate this negative thinking. We are quite competitive against each other and thus that gives us both an advantage (arm's race, technologically) but if we have a future where we both get along amicably, we will be at a bigger advantage (morally, emotionally, economically, financially, politically etc.)

For all your good intentions, I think Mr.Narayanan gave you the answer as said in the blog. Referring to Mammohan he said "You share a destiny, we do not".

I dont think the whole of India shares the same culture, roots as of Pakistan. Parts of India such as South, East and North East have absolutely nothing to do with Pakistan thoughout their history and how people from these parts look Pakistan in an different angle as opposed to people from Gujarat,Rajasthan, part of North India and in particular Punjab.

That is the context of the opening post. But I appreciate your positive post.
 
For all your good intentions, I think Mr.Narayanan gave you the answer as said in the blog. Referring to Mammohan he said "You share a destiny, we do not".

I dont think the whole of India shares the same culture, roots as of Pakistan. Parts of India such as South, East and North East have absolutely nothing to do with Pakistan thoughout their history and how people from these parts look Pakistan in an different angle as opposed to people from Gujarat,Rajasthan, part of North India and in particular Punjab.

That is the context of the opening post. But I appreciate your positive post.

I beleive Pakistanis & Indians are totally different peoples. It is sad to see some Pakistanis living in fools paradise & disgracing all Pakistani races. All I've to say is, the Pakistanis who feel that Pakistanis & Indians are same they are free to leave Pakistan. My grand parents belong to UP India but i will feel disgraced(gali) if any one say that, 'you are Indian'.

---------- Post added at 12:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 AM ----------

BTW it is fun to see Indians bashing Pakistan,Pak Army & ISI on PDF. Keep it up.
 
^ prior to 1947 there was no such thing as Pakistan it was India and only India hell before the British it wasn't even called India it was Hindustan, and Akhand Bharat Pakistanis in reality (no offense) are Indian muslims who created there own land with a Muslim majority population while India with a majority Hindu population became a secular democratic republic, being an Indian does not have to do with religion caste or ethnicity rather the fact you were born in the Indian subcontinent that my friend is the reality of it however i am not saying Pakistanis are Indians rather south Asians like us
 
^ prior to 1947 there was no such thing as Pakistan it was India and only India hell before the British it wasn't even called India it was Hindustan, and Akhand Bharat Pakistanis in reality (no offense) are Indian muslims who created there own land with a Muslim majority population while India with a majority Hindu population became a secular democratic republic, being an Indian does not have to do with religion caste or ethnicity rather the fact you were born in the Indian subcontinent that my friend is the reality of it however i am not saying Pakistanis are Indians rather south Asians like us

First of all there was no India before 1947 it was Subcontinent. 2ndly it is now called South Asia not indian subcontinent.
 
I beleive Pakistanis & Indians are totally different peoples. It is sad to see some Pakistanis living in fools paradise & disgracing all Pakistani races. All I've to say is, the Pakistanis who feel that Pakistanis & Indians are same they are free to leave Pakistan. My grand parents belong to UP India but i will feel disgraced(gali) if any one say that, 'you are Indian'.

---------- Post added at 12:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 AM ----------

BTW it is fun to see Indians bashing Pakistan,Pak Army & ISI on PDF. Keep it up.

Nobody is calling you an Indian for ducks sake. All the other guy is saying is that one can either look at the differences (which are plenty) or at the similarities (in language, food, music, entertainment, celebrations etc etc), and maybe the similarities will in future help to normalise relationship, you did not have to panic and get into your genetic defensive mode that ''somebody called me an Indian, i have no identity boohoo...''

Not that anyone other than other trolls take you seriously. It was fun when you were telling us on the other thread how indians are drivers and cleaners in the US but then i had to show you US census that shows indian families having 41% higher income than pakistani families in the US LOL. Dont abuse us, ppl like you are NOT indian, so relax.

Isn't it funny though, called an Indian -a gali, called by the correct name in UK - thats a gali too! LOL!
 
I beleive Pakistanis & Indians are totally different peoples. It is sad to see some Pakistanis living in fools paradise & disgracing all Pakistani races. All I've to say is, the Pakistanis who feel that Pakistanis & Indians are same they are free to leave Pakistan. My grand parents belong to UP India but i will feel disgraced(gali) if any one say that, 'you are Indian'.

---------- Post added at 12:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 AM ----------

BTW it is fun to see Indians bashing Pakistan,Pak Army & ISI on PDF. Keep it up.

i am lucky that my grandparents ,uncles and aunties were all born in india , and many of my muslim friends also feel lucky that their grand parents din't cross the border during the partition , by comparing the economic condition of india and pakistan , they really deserve to feel lucky.
 
I beleive Pakistanis & Indians are totally different peoples. It is sad to see some Pakistanis living in fools paradise & disgracing all Pakistani races. All I've to say is, the Pakistanis who feel that Pakistanis & Indians are same they are free to leave Pakistan. My grand parents belong to UP India but i will feel disgraced(gali) if any one say that, 'you are Indian'.

---------- Post added at 12:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 AM ----------

BTW it is fun to see Indians bashing Pakistan,Pak Army & ISI on PDF. Keep it up.

This is because you're interpreting that statement with a narrow mind. When someone calls you Indian, he doesn't mean the India - the next door neighbor - but rather the India from the old days. Our grandparents were INDIANS. And if you get offended when someone says that, then you need to open your mind and accept the facts. Foreigners often mistake Indians and Pakistanis from appearance because we look alike. And why do we look alike?
 
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