India agreed to share nuclear data with US

[karakoram]

US is showing true colour of their friendship

 

[sancho]

When did France offer reactors to India ?

AREVA's nuclear EPR projects in India - AREVA India

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Talks on Jaitapur nuclear plant to resume soon

French government to abide by India's civil nuclear liability law...

...However, said Richer, the French government wanted clarity from the Modi government on issues involving the price of power, provisions of India's civil nuclear liability law and the procurement of certain key equipment by Areva from Japan required for the Jaitapur project.

“The Jaitapur project came up for discussion during French foreign minister Laurent Fabius's meetings last week with Prime Minister Narendra Modi, External Affairs minister Sushma Swaraj, Finance Minister Arun Jaitley and Environment and Forests minister Prakash Javadekar. The French government has no objection to India’s civil nuclear liability law but it wants a clear picture on its provisions. France and Areva will abide by the law,” said Richer.

HEADLINE : Nuclear Power Corporation & Areva to soon resume talks for Jaitapur project | Business Standard News

 

[SrNair]

As Sancho mentioned, BJP wanted this liability law in first place.. If this was the case, the treaty would have signed many years ago..



But we still had option than watering down liability law to please the Americans..

Nuclear deal ,123 agreement all of them were just a trick for increasing relation with India.It was the George W Bush who came with this idea.At that time he told to our PM that we are more interested in relation with India and we dont have any problem even if we dont.buy a single reactor from US.But Of course US corporates thinks otherwise.

MMS was just short sighted in strategic vision and they also have some old Indira socialist policy .Perhaps that was also a reason .BJP was just an opposition at that time.
But in this case US might be give up their WTO games and IPR issues.That is why I said this was some kind of give and take policy. You know we can move forward without these deal with US.But there is a lot of dicussions is going on behind the curtain.
I think our officials neither interested in a conflict of interest with US nor interested in compromising our national interest.

 

[sancho]

MMS was just short sighted in strategic vision

Really? The man that brought economic reforms to India, which is the base of Indias rise today, the man that brought the nuclear deal, which not only opened up Indias access to energy but to huge political and economic improvements to the US and all it's allies (just look at our relations to Japan, Australia, Canada today and before the deal), the man that even understood that Indias growth can increase multiple times, if we get to stable relations to Pakistan and peace in the region..., THAT MAN was short sighted in strategic vision???

 

[Guynextdoor2]

That depends on the Data, civilian nuclear data can be shared which isn't really a problem. The problem comes when the data of military nuclear installations is shared. So when India says "will share Nuclear data". Which one is it ?

STOP WHITWASHING HIM MAN! This is embarrassing. Everyone knows that he wanted validation from the US. He even went to the extent of releasing publicity photo ops and calling him 'Barak'. Today 'barak' just told the world that he was communal. What makes you think he won't make these compromises to get greater international acceptance? Sure the world will like him- he has done things that even Manmohan Singh didn't do.

Really? The man that brought economic reforms to India, which is the base of Indias rise today, the man that brought the nuclear deal, which not only opened up Indias access to energy but to huge political and economic improvements to the US and all it's allies (just look at our relations to Japan, Australia, Canada today and before the deal), the man that even understood that Indias growth can even increase multiple times, if we get to stable relations to Pakistan and peace in the region..., THAT MAN was short sighted in strategic vision???

You can't argue with them, trust me I tried.

 

[IndoCarib]

US is showing true colour of their friendship

@Menace2Society ,

Dont get confused with the title. It is only civilian nuclear energy deal for household power purposes, that the article is talking about. They dont want to be held responsible in a case of a nuclear accident like the one in Fukushima ,Japan

 

[salarsikander]

So when India says "will share Nuclear data". Which one is it ?

Exactly my thoughts

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Nuclear deal ,123 agreement all of them were just a trick for increasing relation with India.It was the George W Bush who came with this idea.At that time he told to our PM that we are more interested in relation with India and we dont have any problem even if we dont.buy a single reactor from US.But Of course US corporates thinks otherwise.

MMS was just short sighted in strategic vision and they also have some old Indira socialist policy .Perhaps that was also a reason .BJP was just an opposition at that time.
But in this case US might be give up their WTO games and IPR issues.That is why I said this was some kind of give and take policy. You know we can move forward without these deal with US.But there is a lot of dicussions is going on behind the curtain.
I think our officials neither interested in a conflict of interest with US nor interested in compromising our national interest.

So this is MMS fault?

 

[sancho]

You can't argue with them, trust me I tried.

Everybody is free to have an opinion and surely MMS was a tragic figure under UPA 2 and he has to carry his bag for sure, but to say that he didn't had vision after these crucial achievements he got India, is more than unfair.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Everybody is free to have an opinion and surely MMS was a tragic figure under UPA 2 and he has to carry his bag for sure, but to say that he didn't had vision after these crucial achievements he got India, is more than unfair.

We spent DECADES suffering sanctions to maintain complete independence. And I don't think there is anyone here who thinks that it was bad. We were among the successful people who could stay independent and yet get the work done (cryogenics and nuclear tech). We're selling cheap man. We made too many sacrifices to be told now that it can be 'politically traded" because one guy wants a US Visa.

 

[shontumontu]

Everybody is free to have an opinion and surely MMS was a tragic figure under UPA 2 and he has to carry his bag for sure, but to say that he didn't had vision after these crucial achievements he got India, is more than unfair.

@sancho ji, think above these terms.

India had to get nuclear tech for civilian use, is mainly electricity generation in this decade actually previous decade.

It would have happened even if USSR had been around.

If you haven't noticed so far, we had been in the midst of shifting camps. From Russia based to US based. The problems we had faced under MMS were of unknown nature, insurance pooling was available then just like now. The problems must have been something else.

Now that US is courting India and is actively waiving its own rules nd regulations it is but natural that we would loosen up our girdle too in order to get comfortable.

My point is, this would have happened even without Modi ji. What modiji did differently compared to MMS ?

Here it comes :

"He finished this shot rather than making it another 5 year programme."

That credit belongs to him and his team solely.

Recognising it doesn't make anyone a bhakt.

Secondly, MMS opened up the economy under pressure because we duly were bankrupt. I'm 1990 we had two choices..Go under and collapse, or open up India to those who would save our a$$ with $. MMS was the best man for the job being Oxford gold medallist and all.

If you ask me sancho sir, I would say, the Gandhi family found a nice highly educated dog to walk and never let an opportunity go by to utilise that man for its personal gain. Since 1990.

Rest about this article, just because a Pakistani member sniffed a vague article on the net and posted it for all the highly qualified analysts on PDF to analyse, it doesn't make us any more knowledgeable about the actual deal. Peace.

 

[sancho]

@sancho ji, think above these terms.

India had to get nuclear tech for civilian use, is mainly electricity generation in this decade actually previous decade.

It would have happened even if USSR had been around.

That's not correct, since it's not about nuclear techs, but to get access to nuclear materials, which countries like Australia or Canada denied us before the deal, because we didn't agreed to international contracts and wasn't an official nuclear power. The 123 pact changed all that and ONLY, because the US pushed it through although several of their allies were against it.

If you haven't noticed so far, we had been in the midst of shifting camps. From Russia based to US based. The problems we had faced under MMS were of unknown nature, insurance pooling was available then just like now. The problems must have been something else.

No we are not shifting to the US side at all, we just take advantage of them opening up to us, which again is the result of the 123 pact. If we shift sides, we wouldn't keep buying huge numbers of Russian arms and would not insist on ToT, offset or reducing the end user monitoring (CISOMA) requirements. We know that they want our market, we know that they want us as a counterweight to China and that puts us in the better position to demand things from them.
And as I said earlier, the same BJP that now is softening the lieability issue, back then was so strict about it and thereby caused the delays. If they had accepted the same softenings, the deal would had been fixed by now and we might even see the first US companies investing in India by now.

Got to go now, see ya!

Now that US is courting India and is actively waiving its own rules nd regulations it is but natural that we would loosen up our girdle too in order to get comfortable.

If you ask me sancho sir, I would say, the Gandhi family found a nice highly educated dog to walk and never let an opportunity go by to utilise that man for its personal gain. Since 1990.

And I wouldn't deny it, but even that makes clear, that it was his individual vision brought as were we are now. Without him the UPA might not had achiedved the same and that's why one has to credit MMS for that.
Similarly, I gave Modi the credit that he negotiated things fast and as the first reports said, without the tracking demands of the US. If that now turns out to be a fake and the US at the end got more out of the deal than we got, because Modi backed back from his own remarks and the strict laws the BJP wanted for political reasons 10 years ago. An MMS that got what he wanted for India, even if his own party was not really behind him has achieved more, than a Modi IF (we still need all details) he reduced the liability laws now just to get anything from the US, which puts India into disadvantage in negotiating the same now with Russian and France.

 

[shontumontu]

That's not correct, since it's not about nuclear techs, but to get access to nuclear materials, which countries like Australia or Canada denied us before the deal, because we didn't agreed to international contracts and wasn't an official nuclear power. The 123 pact changed all that and ONLY, because the US pushed it through although several of their allies were against it.



No we are not shifting to the US side at all, we just take advantage of them opening up to us, which again is the result of the 123 pact. If we shift sides, we wouldn't keep buying huge numbers of Russian arms and would not insist on ToT, offset or reducing the end user monitoring (CISOMA) requirements. We know that they want our market, we know that they want us as a counterweight to China and that puts us in the better position to demand things from them.
And as I said earlier, the same BJP that now is softening the lieability issue, back then was so strict about it and thereby caused the delays. If they had accepted the same softenings, the deal would had been fixed by now and we might even see the first US companies investing in India by now.

Got to go now, see ya!



And I wouldn't deny it, but even that makes clear, that it was his individual vision brought as were we are now. Without him the UPA might not had achiedved the same and that's why one has to credit MMS for that.
Similarly, I gave Modi the credit that he negotiated things fast and as the first reports said, without the tracking demands of the US. If that now turns out to be a fake and the US at the end got more out of the deal than we got, because Modi backed back from his own remarks and the strict laws the BJP wanted for political reasons 10 years ago. An MMS that got what he wanted for India, even if his own party was not really behind him has achieved more, than a Modi IF (we still need all details) he reduced the liability laws now just to get anything from the US, which puts India into disadvantage in negotiating the same now with Russian and France.

You are worrying unnecessarily !

The liability law in itself is useless than paper it is printed on if our country's top leadership will charter a special plane for American from palam base to fly out at night in total secrecy. It will not happen in the next 10 years.

That's beyond a paper law.

 

[MilSpec]

About the Liability clause:
For the reactors, fissile material, more stringent inspection before acceptance and commissioning will be arranged which will mitigate supplier defect.
For cooling system - Air cooled/water cooled chillers, instead of AHRI testing, there will be comprehensive testing at customer conditions to validate efficiency and performance. Cooling towers(for wcs systems) return water loops, Plant Loops, BAS systems, Lon Talk interfaces,with redundant measurement systems all will be completely be validated before commissioning.

Measures such as above mitigates the risk considerably.


About the tracking.
I dont think there is any issue about tracking by IAEA for civilians reactors. India will not let anyone track it's military reactor.s

 

[Bang Galore]

I too had the same feeling.. I mean we watered down the liability clause. Inshort if anything wrong happened we will be responsible.. I know it wont go down well with Modi fans but UPA was pretty strong when it comes to this kind of treaties and their foreign affairs was strong than that of current government..

That nuclear liability clause was a loony law designed to kill nuclear power. No one would have invested, even Indian companies like L&T were wary & the Russians used that as a reason to massively jack up prices. It had to be watered down.

Btw, the BJP was directly responsible for this crazy law because they forced the UPA government to put it in. About as clear an act of political chicanery that could have been displayed., putting narrow political interests before that of the nation.