How Armenia lost the war

[Foinikas]

I will post some screenshots I took from friends' posts about the political crisis and the information that started coming out during the war.

First,for those who don't know,Nikol Pashinyan,the current PM and his government,came to power in 2018 after a "revolution",fooling a lot of people,apart from his fanatic followers. Russia of course was displeased with this change in government,since the new government was reportedly more pro-Western.

His government bought 35 OSA AK systems from Jordan. Old,used systems. Then they bought 4 Su-30SM from Russia,which during the war,mostly stayed around Yerevan,doing nothing.

After the war,a lot of information started coming out,about Pashinyan not really helping NKR(Artsakh) or units being ordered to move from positions or not sending any real reinforcements to Artsakh when they were defending against advancing Azeri forces.

"Pashinyan's government was criticized for providing minimal committed to the war effort. For over a month after the war started, the Armenian war had not been fully mobilized. Armenia's military doctrine requires that Armenian forces being near-fully mobolized within 48 hours in case of war.[236]

Movses Hakobyan, the tormer chief of the General Staff of the Armenian Army, accused Pashinyan of hindering the army's buildup process for the war, replacing Armenian army reverses with volunteer detachments, and appointing incompetent generals to leadership positions. Hakobyan stated the Azerbaijani forces had made no advancements for the first three days, but eventually broke the line of contact due to Pashinyan sending a lack of supplies.[237]

Hetq journalist Edik Baghdasaryan had criticized Pashinyan's government for doing nothing to prepare for the war despite it being known Azerbaijani troops had been gathering along the border several months before their attack.[14]"

After the war,Pashinyan himself started posting idiotic things on Twitter,saying that they had bought the Su-30SM but not the missiles and that the Iskander system was not good.

Armenian PM Accused Of Lying About Russian Missiles

Russian pro-government lawmakers and pundits strongly condemned Prime Minister Nikol Pashinian on Wednesday for implying that Armenia's most advanced Russian-made missiles proved useless during the recent war with Azerbaijan.

www.azatutyun.am

Russia Shows Off Footage Of Iskander Missile Hitting A Hospital In Highlight Reel Meant To Defend The Weapon’s Effectiveness

The Armenian prime minister's criticism of Iskander ballistic missiles not only triggered a domestic political crisis, it compelled Russia's Defense Ministry to release combat footage to defend the weapon's reputation that shows one of them slamming precisely into a hospital in Syria.

www.forbes.com

 

[Foinikas]

But who is Pashinyan's government?

Then how did he win the elections again in 2021?

 

[Ghostkiller]

For me, in all cases, Armenia was gonna loose the war first because of the corruption and second because they aren't modernised at all. They are old soviet army on contrary to azeri armies which had very advanced tech like modern drones TB2 Harpy Harop etc... One country has the vision to modernise and the other no. Third Azerbaijan had and still has big allies like Turkey Pakistan who have the will to defend and to help Azerbaijan but Armenia has Russia only.

 

[Foinikas]

first because of the corruption

Pashinyan basically sold Artsakh. He betrayed Artsakh. He even said after the war,in Parliament,that Sushi was not worth dying for,because it was an underdeveloped town.

A couple of photos I couldn't post above concerning the elections:

second because they aren't modernised at all.

It's true. They had some Iskander,some Tor-M2 units,but the vast majority of the equipment was old and outdated.

Even their S-300 were the old S-300PS version.

One country has the vision to modernise and the other no. Third Azerbaijan had and still has big allies like Turkey Pakistan who have the will to defend and to help Azerbaijan but Armenia has Russia only.

Very true. Azerbaijan always had the money,the population and the weapons to fight Armenia and NKR.

Before the war,Turkey sent F-16s and "advisors",as well as other supplies there,during that common exercise they were supposed to have in the summer. Of course,they never left. They were preparing for the war.

Only Russia could stop Azerbaijan back then,but they didn't. And why? Because the Armenians now had a pro-Western government. And they wanted to teach them a lesson.

But there was some corruption on the Armenian side too,apart from all the bravery and courage of many guys who fought and died.

The deal Pashinyan signed was a complete betrayal. Because the surrundered a lot of areas of Artsakh,that were not even captured by the Azeris during the war:

Apart from that,as soon as they moved in,the Azeris started a process of removing many Armenian landmarks,harassing villagers,stopping Armenian cars and removing flag stickers,using loudspeakers to annoy Armenian villagers to leave their houses,SMS would start coming to local Armenians with offers from Azeris to buy their property and in some incidents,the Azeri Army entered Armenia proper in some locations and still occupies these points,building fortifications and raising their flag:

All the while,Pashinyan's government was doing little about the POWs,who were being tried as "criminals" and not POWs,by Azerbaijan. They were also doing nothing about Azeris advancing and occupying kilometers of their land.

On the contrary,Pashinyan started a hunt of reporters who would criticize him online and even arresting Mayors,parliament members,soldiers,volunteers from the war and generally people who "insulted" him.


"After a Facebook user posted a photo mocking Pashinyan in March 2021, a law was passed on 5 October 2021 that tripled the amount of money for "insults" and "defamation" fines. This was criticized by the Union of Journalists of Armenia, European Federation of Journalists, and International Federation of Journalists as violation of the right of freedom of expression.[267]

During a 8 June 2021 speech for the upcoming Armenian parliamentary election, Pashinyan brandished a hammer around while threatening to "throw on the ground" and "bang against the wall" opposition supporters. Human rights defender Arman Tatoyan criticized Pashinyan's behavior and stated, "this unacceptable rhetoric is associated with mass violations of human rights".[244][245]

In November 2021, a criminal case was filed against Karabakh war veteran Manuel Manukyan for calling Pashinyan a "a cat on a trash can" in a Facebook post.[268]

In April 2022, Pashinyan's Civil Contract party lost the mayor of Vanadzor election, winning only 25% of the votes while former Vanadzor Mayor Mamikon Aslanyan won 39% of the votes. Aslanyan was arrested on corruption charges 10 days after the election, and a law was passed that allowed Pashinyan to name an acting mayor. Aslanyan and other opposition figures condemned the charges as being politically motivated.[269]

On 26 April 2022, a police vehicle in Pashinyan's motorcade struck and killed 29-year-old pregnant woman Sona Mnatsakanyan. The vehicle continued driving without stopping after the collision. Mnatsakanyan and her unborn child were pronounced dead at a hospital 1.5 hours later.[270]"

On 28 December, Armenian parliament member Naira Zohrabyan called Pashinyan a traitor who surrendered Artsakh and betrayed Armenia.[238] The following day, Zohrabyan was dismissed from the Armenian parliament.[239]

 

[Foinikas]

You can see now why Pashinyan is a favorite of Turkey and Azerbaijan,who want him to stay in power. After all,his government has been doing a lot to start relations and trade with Turkey.

 

[vishwambhar]

More humiliation to Armenia is now they are forced to give road access to Azerbaijan to reach their enclave province to the west of Armenia..... even if Armenia doesn't like they have no choice......

 

[Foinikas]

More humiliation to Armenia is now they are forced to give road access to Azerbaijan to reach their enclave province to the west of Armenia..... even if Armenia doesn't like they have no choice......

But that's the thing. Their government wants to do that. They are eager to cooperate with Azerbaijan and Turkey. They were slow to react when Azeri forces entered and occupied parts of Armenia proper,after the war,they did very little and too late to get their POWs back and Pashinyan started acting like a dictator,arresting or sacking politicians and journalists for criticizing him.

 

[vishwambhar]

But that's the thing. Their government wants to do that. They are eager to cooperate with Azerbaijan and Turkey. They were slow to react when Azeri forces entered and occupied parts of Armenia proper,after the war,they did very little and too late to get their POWs back and Pashinyan started acting like a dictator,arresting or sacking politicians and journalists for criticizing him.

Agreed.... seems they had lost their confidence from the beginning....but why are they eager to cooperate with Azerbaijan who beat them bad.? Are they really eager or just have no option than to cooperate?

 

[Foinikas]

Agreed.... seems they had lost their confidence from the beginning....but why are they eager to cooperate with Azerbaijan who beat them bad.? Are they really eager or just have no option than to cooperate?

No,the Army and soldiers and the people hadn't lost their confidence. They had been fighting and would have kept fighting,but if you read the screenshots in the first and second post,you'd see that the government was traitorous from the beginning. It wasn't a matter of confidence for the government,they refused significant help towards NKR. That's like,imagine Indian Kashmir under attack by China and the Indian Army just sending old volunteers or a few units too late. Or for example the Indian Army in Kashmir asking for reinforcements at a specific point,but the government in New Delhi refusing to help for some uknown reason. Something like that

Yes,they are eager. Because they do things that were not requiered and are not required to do. They are in fact one of those weird "center" governments who want to go pro-Western,you know,but have no experience in running a country. They have their own fanatic voter base which is usually extremely stubborn to admit any mistakes and they willing to give away parts of Armenia,just to have some weird sense of "prosperity".

 

[SQ8]

No,the Army and soldiers and the people hadn't lost their confidence. They had been fighting and would have kept fighting,but if you read the screenshots in the first and second post,you'd see that the government was traitorous from the beginning. It wasn't a matter of confidence for the government,they refused significant help towards NKR. That's like,imagine Indian Kashmir under attack by China and the Indian Army just sending old volunteers or a few units too late. Or for example the Indian Army in Kashmir asking for reinforcements at a specific point,but the government in New Delhi refusing to help for some uknown reason. Something like that

Yes,they are eager. Because they do things that were not requiered and are not required to do. They are in fact one of those weird "center" governments who want to go pro-Western,you know,but have no experience in running a country. They have their own fanatic voter base which is usually extremely stubborn to admit any mistakes and they willing to give away parts of Armenia,just to have some weird sense of "prosperity".

Either way they lost - at the end if a peoples cannot recognize a failed leadership and essentially succumb to it - THEY DESERVE THAT LOSS

 

[Foinikas]

Either way they lost - at the end if a peoples cannot recognize a failed leadership and essentially succumb to it - THEY DESERVE THAT LOSS

Yes,they did have massive protests (for the country population)in the winter against the government,but nothing happened. The Pashinyan administration sent heavy police forces who easily detained and beat-up people brutally. The irony is that he took power in a "revolution" kind of style,then failed miserably,then showed his true face and won elections by massive fraud and now acts like a dictator who doesn't tolerate opposition.

And the Russians allowed all this,because they were displeased that Sargsyan was kicked out like that. But still,this war was a big lesson in tactics.

 

[vishwambhar]

No,the Army and soldiers and the people hadn't lost their confidence. They had been fighting and would have kept fighting,but if you read the screenshots in the first and second post,you'd see that the government was traitorous from the beginning. It wasn't a matter of confidence for the government,they refused significant help towards NKR. That's like,imagine Indian Kashmir under attack by China and the Indian Army just sending old volunteers or a few units too late. Or for example the Indian Army in Kashmir asking for reinforcements at a specific point,but the government in New Delhi refusing to help for some uknown reason. Something like that

Yes,they are eager. Because they do things that were not requiered and are not required to do. They are in fact one of those weird "center" governments who want to go pro-Western,you know,but have no experience in running a country. They have their own fanatic voter base which is usually extremely stubborn to admit any mistakes and they willing to give away parts of Armenia,just to have some weird sense of "prosperity".

Really unfortunate for Armenia....

 

[silverox]

Armenians lack a clear understanding of the world. They dare to buy Indian radars. Facts have proved that the weapons made in India are garbage.

 

[Foinikas]

Armenians lack a clear understanding of the world. They dare to buy Indian radars. Facts have proved that the weapons made in India are garbage.

It's their leadership. Plus,Israel sells to the Azeris,US is out of the question,Russians have their problems...would Chinese sell? Maybe they would,but the current leadership of Armenia is a sellout. Imagine,they bought used OSA AK systems from Jordan before the war.

 

[Abu Shaleh Rumi]

Azerbaijan got the timing right...