Gulbuddin Hekmatyar: Will the Afghanistan warlord turn out to be Pakistan’s wild card against India?

[Gandhi G in da house]

I am guessing he will be popped by some old enemy if he returns to Afghanistan.

 

[Shapur]

Hekmatyar may not be as anti Pakistan as some of the other former northern alliance warlords but I am sure he hasn't forgotten how Pakistan chose Taliban over him.

Off Topic: Hekmatyar with a young Erdogan on the right. I wonder how their relationship is now since the time of Russian Jihad days.

 

[Kabira]

No I mean your country's elites who steal the money meant for the poor people of Pakistan, These are the same people Imran Khan talks about. That's who I mean.

Now this is not my personal opinion but I am just going to explain how some Afghans especially Pashtuns of Afghanistan feel. Afghans believe Pashtuns should never have been part of Pakistan because Pashtuns already have a country named after them (Afghanistan). Why should Pashtuns be split into two countries they way Kurds are split into 4? It has a negative effect on Pashtuns because instead of focusing on our language, culture and identity, we have to learn an alien language called Urdu brought over from Delhi instead of our own. Instead of learning our own history, we have to learn about "Nazria e Pakistan" etc. Pashtuns are not like the rest of Pakistanis who didn't have a country that they feel they can belong to. The muslims of sub continent needed Pakistan because they didn't fit in with a hindu majority India. That's not the case with Pashtuns who already had a muslim majority country with Pashto as its official language. To add to that, Pashtuns are not Indic and not part of the sub continent so by default they didn't belong in this confideration of desi muslims.

Another point these people raise is that there was no fair referendum in Pashtun areas of Pakistan because they were given only two choice
1: Pakistan
2: India
Afghanistan was not given as a choice and most Pashtuns did not take part in this referendum. According to Afghan, this was done deliberately. Now faced with these two options, of course Pashtuns chose Pakistan because of logical reasons, Pakistan was to be a muslim nation plus if they chose India there would have been Punjab, sindh etc between them physically so not practical.

There are many other reasons besides these but thats just a summary. So Afghanistan felt it was necessary to take Pashtun areas by all means possible as Pakistan who was backed by Britain would never give up these territories through dialogue. The extent of this interference is exaggerated by Pakistan sometimes for its own propaganda purposes and I am sure some members who are more knowledgeable than me can explain it better.

Now I know most Pashtuns of Pakistan have become proud Pakistanis over time and given the state of Afghanistan, they wouldn't ever want to merge their areas with Afghanistan. This is not 60s and 70s, things have changed and Afghanistan's government needs to change its attitude and accept the fact the most Pashtuns in Pakistan are now full fledged Pakistanis and their old tactics will not work anymore.

No corruption in Pakistan isn't what you mean. You said so called establishment tells Pakistani pashtuns to look at Afghanistan situation. When someone like you ask Pakistani pashtuns why would not join Afghanistan? And some like Khan_21 respond at why they would join Afghanistan even not even afghan refugees want to go back to Afghansitan? That doesn't look like establishment policy. Bhutto in Peshawar speech clearly warned Afghanistan to not interfere and create ethnic divisions in Pakistan because you also have Tajiks, Uzbeks, Hazaras, Turkmens, etc Only after that did Bhutto decided to look for allies in Afghanistan.

Many of these "refugees" are not even post invasion. There was another wave of refugees before that. Famine and economic hardships brought hundreds of thousands of Afghans in to Pakistan in early 70's. Thousands died of starvation in Afghanistan. Nationalist leaders instead of interfering should have concentrated on betterment of their own citizens so they don't have to run to very country they want to destroy. Now when same people from Karachi go back they are looked down upon or considered ISI agents for speaking in Pakistani accent.

 

[pakistani342]

Hekmatyar may not be as anti Pakistan as some of the other former northern alliance warlords but I am sure he hasn't forgotten how Pakistan chose Taliban over him.

Off Topic: Hekmatyar with a young Erdogan on the right. I wonder how their relationship is now since the time of Russian Jihad days.

They're all brothers under the covers -- Erdogan is a religious pig like the rest of them

 

[Shapur]

They're all brothers under the covers -- Erdogan is a religious pig like the rest of them

Nothing wrong with being religious. Real problem is that not many of the so called religious people are truly religious. Most use religion as a tool for their own interests. Ofcourse atheists would have a hard time accepting anything religion related but its not their place to say how other people choose to live.

 

[pakistani342]

Nothing wrong with being religious. Real problem is that not many of the so called religious people are truly religious. Most use religion as a tool for their own interests. Ofcourse atheists would have a hard time accepting anything religion related but its not their place to say how other people choose to live.

I reckon Hekmatyar, Mollah ... all agree with what you have said.

 

[TMA]

No I mean your country's elites who steal the money meant for the poor people of Pakistan, These are the same people Imran Khan talks about. That's who I mean.

Now this is not my personal opinion but I am just going to explain how some Afghans especially Pashtuns of Afghanistan feel. Afghans believe Pashtuns should never have been part of Pakistan because Pashtuns already have a country named after them (Afghanistan). Why should Pashtuns be split into two countries they way Kurds are split into 4? It has a negative effect on Pashtuns because instead of focusing on our language, culture and identity, we have to learn an alien language called Urdu brought over from Delhi instead of our own. Instead of learning our own history, we have to learn about "Nazria e Pakistan" etc. Pashtuns are not like the rest of Pakistanis who didn't have a country that they feel they can belong to. The muslims of sub continent needed Pakistan because they didn't fit in with a hindu majority India. That's not the case with Pashtuns who already had a muslim majority country with Pashto as its official language. To add to that, Pashtuns are not Indic and not part of the sub continent so by default they didn't belong in this confideration of desi muslims.

Another point these people raise is that there was no fair referendum in Pashtun areas of Pakistan because they were given only two choice
1: Pakistan
2: India
Afghanistan was not given as a choice and most Pashtuns did not take part in this referendum. According to Afghan, this was done deliberately. Now faced with these two options, of course Pashtuns chose Pakistan because of logical reasons, Pakistan was to be a muslim nation plus if they chose India there would have been Punjab, sindh etc between them physically so not practical.

There are many other reasons besides these but thats just a summary. So Afghanistan felt it was necessary to take Pashtun areas by all means possible as Pakistan who was backed by Britain would never give up these territories through dialogue. The extent of this interference is exaggerated by Pakistan sometimes for its own propaganda purposes and I am sure some members who are more knowledgeable than me can explain it better.

Now I know most Pashtuns of Pakistan have become proud Pakistanis over time and given the state of Afghanistan, they wouldn't ever want to merge their areas with Afghanistan. This is not 60s and 70s, things have changed and Afghanistan's government needs to change its attitude and accept the fact the most Pashtuns in Pakistan are now full fledged Pakistanis and their old tactics will not work anymore.

The Pukhtoons of Pakistan have not lost their culture. They speak their language and practice their culture freely in Pakistan. Being part of Pakistan, Pukhtoons have not lost their identities. Also most Pukhtoons are in Pakistan.
Why should Pukhtoons be split? Well the Sikh Empire and then the British Empire were responsible for this plus a weak Afghan King. Not the fault of Pakistan. The referendum not being fair - take it up with the Britian as it was British India which was being affected. The whole of the British Indian empire was not fair!!

True that Pukhtoons are not Indic but you forget that many millions of Pukhtoons over time had migrated to Punjab, Kashmir and elsewhere. Pukhtoons are not completely alien to the Indic part of Pakistan even historically.

Now Pukhtoons have been part of Pakistan since 1947. And they have been proud since then. Do you forget that it was the Pukhtoons of FATA who resisted Afghan machinations back in the day? The Pukhtoons of FATA! And today they are even more part of Pakistan, mashallah!!

I am glad that you say that the Afghan government should accept that most Pukhtoons are Pakistani and have been for many decades and they should stop their dirty games. But I fear they will not listen to you. I am afraid that you are a tiny minority of your countrymen.

I am also glad that you recognize that Afghanistan was the aggressor against Pakistan (although we may disagree on the extent of interference). Again I feel that you are a tiny minority amongst your compatriots.

 

[Shapur]

The Pukhtoons of Pakistan have not lost their culture. They speak their language and practice their culture freely in Pakistan. Being part of Pakistan, Pukhtoons have not lost their identities. Also most Pukhtoons are in Pakistan.
Why should Pukhtoons be split? Well the Sikh Empire and then the British Empire were responsible for this plus a weak Afghan King. Not the fault of Pakistan. The referendum not being fair - take it up with the Britian as it was British India which was being affected. The whole of the British Indian empire was not fair!!

I never said they have lost their culture but we have to admit Pashtuns on both sides are losing ground to Farsi and Urdu. Its not just about speaking a language because few languages are preserved and advance if they are just spoken languages. Pashto needs to be used in all spheres of life in Pashtun areas, in education, government etc. How can we advance our languages if its not being used actively like Farsi, Urdu? Same thing is happening to Punjabi, its suffering because of the dominance of a foreign language called Urdu brought over from Delhi and the surrounding areas. 90% or more of the educated Pashtuns in Pakistan can't write in their mother tongue. I have been to Pakistan and I know the reallity.

True that Pukhtoons are not Indic but you forget that many millions of Pukhtoons over time had migrated to Punjab, Kashmir and elsewhere. Pukhtoons are not completely alien to the Indic part of Pakistan even historically.

Can't deny that Pashtuns and other Pakistanis have alot in common.

Now Pukhtoons have been part of Pakistan since 1947. And they have been proud since then. Do you forget that it was the Pukhtoons of FATA who resisted Afghan machinations back in the day? The Pukhtoons of FATA! And today they are even more part of Pakistan, mashallah!!

Pukhtoons are tribal people by in large and their loyalty is usually to their tribe first and then the state. If pashtuns of Bajaur thought their interests are better served being part of Pakistan then thats the option they will choose hence the resistance to Kabul. Pukhtoons are free spirits and independent hence they don't like centralized control or hierarchy. The Pashtuns of the plains e.g Peshawar valley, are more willing to accept state authority than their mountain dwelling counterparts.

I am glad that you say that the Afghan government should accept that most Pukhtoons are Pakistani and have been for many decades and they should stop their dirty games. But I fear they will not listen to you. I am afraid that you are a tiny minority of your countrymen.

The Afghan government have accepted it in all honesty but Pashtunistan issue is used from time to time to get Pashtun votes. I agree that Afghans should stop trying to play the ethnic card in Pakistan and Pakistan should do the same in Afghanistan. Having said that no one has the right to stop Pashtuns from both sides to cooperate to strengthen our culture and language. Any interference in that regard should not be acceptable to any Pashtun.

 

[TMA]

I never said they have lost their culture but we have to admit Pashtuns on both sides are losing ground to Farsi and Urdu. Its not just about speaking a language because few languages are preserved and advance if they are just spoken languages. Pashto needs to be used in all spheres of life in Pashtun areas, in education, government etc. How can we advance our languages if its not being used actively like Farsi, Urdu? Same thing is happening to Punjabi, its suffering because of the dominance of a foreign language called Urdu brought over from Delhi and the surrounding areas. 90% or more of the educated Pashtuns in Pakistan can't write in their mother tongue. I have been to Pakistan and I know the reallity.



Can't deny that Pashtuns and other Pakistanis have alot in common.



Pukhtoons are tribal people by in large and their loyalty is usually to their tribe first and then the state. If pashtuns of Bajaur thought their interests are better served being part of Pakistan then thats the option they will choose hence the resistance to Kabul. Pukhtoons are free spirits and independent hence they don't like centralized control or hierarchy. The Pashtuns of the plains e.g Peshawar valley, are more willing to accept state authority than their mountain dwelling counterparts.



The Afghan government have accepted it in all honesty but Pashtunistan issue is used from time to time to get Pashtun votes. I agree that Afghans should stop trying to play the ethnic card in Pakistan and Pakistan should do the same in Afghanistan. Having said that no one has the right to stop Pashtuns from both sides to cooperate to strengthen our culture and language. Any interference in that regard should not be acceptable to any Pashtun.

You are a rare Afghan!

In order for Pakhtoons to preserve and perpetuate their language and culture then the Pukhtoons should make up their own country? Should they take the Pukhtoon areas of Afghanisan and Pakistan and combine? Is that the answer?

I do not think the current Afghan puppet government has accepted Pakistan. No they still wish to prick Pakistan due to their visceral jealousy.

I am all for people to preserve their langauge and cultures however what I fear is if Afghanistan's Pukhtoons are allowed to "co-operate" with Pakistan's Pukhtoons then I foresee machinations once again as it would be a perfect cover especially given Afghanistan treachery and arrogance.

 

[Shapur]

You are a rare Afghan!

In order for Pakhtoons to preserve and perpetuate their language and culture then the Pukhtoons should make up their own country? Should they take the Pukhtoon areas of Afghanisan and Pakistan and combine? Is that the answer?

I do not think the current Afghan puppet government has accepted Pakistan. No they still wish to prick Pakistan due to their visceral jealousy.

I am all for people to preserve their langauge and cultures however what I fear is if Afghanistan's Pukhtoons are allowed to "co-operate" with Pakistan's Pukhtoons then I foresee machinations once again as it would be a perfect cover especially given Afghanistan treachery and arrogance.

Maybe not a new country because its not easy to redraw borders, maybe a loose confederation of Afghanistan, Pakistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Kashmir. Overtime these borders will almost become meaningless just like in the EU but for that to happen we need peace in Afghanistan and tribal areas of Pakistan and these places need to catch up economically with the rest first. This will give Pakistan strategic depth up to Tajikistan and Uzbekistan and resolve the Durand issue. So far Afghanistan and Pakistan have used several methods to achieve their respective aims but both have failed to a large extent. I would have included Iran but given their shia theocracy, it will not be possible at the present moment but Iran can still play an economic role and should be part of the economic bloc.

I know this sounds scary to many Afghans, Pakistanis and others who have bought into modern state identity and they feel they will lose their "Afghaniat" or "pakistaniyat" but it doesn't have to be the case. All these countries are Sunni Hanafi muslims and Islam can play the unifying role while we will still be able to keep our unique cultural identities.

 

[TMA]

Maybe not a new country because its not easy to redraw borders, maybe a loose confederation of Afghanistan, Pakistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Kashmir. Overtime these borders will almost become meaningless just like in the EU but for that to happen we need peace in Afghanistan and tribal areas of Pakistan and these places need to catch up economically with the rest first. This will give Pakistan strategic depth up to Tajikistan and Uzbekistan and resolve the Durand issue. So far Afghanistan and Pakistan have used several methods to achieve their respective aims but both have failed to a large extent. I would have included Iran but given their shia theocracy, it will not be possible at the present moment but Iran can still play an economic role and should be part of the economic bloc.

I know this sounds scary to many Afghans, Pakistanis and others who have bought into modern state identity and they feel they will lose their "Afghaniat" or "pakistaniyat" but it doesn't have to be the case. All these countries are Sunni Hanafi muslims and Islam can play the unifying role while we will still be able to keep our unique cultural identities.

But how will this confederation help the Pukhtoon people preserve and perpetuate their language and culture? It seems it would only dilute it more as is the case with the EU eroding at national and ethnic cultures.