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Its enough for now, its relative to what the IN used to have, that's how a long term capabilities enhancement plan works, its always a relative upgrade to what you had.

Zhuk me was not even a relative upgrade,,,just a cheapo upgrade.
I understand russians had no working aesa at the moment........................they still don't have a production unit available.
 
Zhuk me was not even a relative upgrade,,,just a cheapo upgrade.
I understand russians had no working aesa at the moment........................they still don't have a production unit available.

Oh it was an upgrade alright, you see a sensor in isolation, the IN is looking at the 29K as a platform in totality, how many times have I told you, warfare is not platform centric, it most certainly is not singular system centric. The IN is looking at the 29K (and rightly so) as a leap beyond the jump jets they had in terms of multi-role operational capabilities, range, munitions carried etc.
 
Oh it was an upgrade alright, you see a sensor in isolation, the IN is looking at the 29K as a platform in totality, how many times have I told you, warfare is not platform centric, it most certainly is not singular system centric. The IN is looking at the 29K (and rightly so) as a leap beyond the jump jets they had in terms of multi-role operational capabilities, range, munitions carried etc.

Yes u are right when u compare that to harriers...............compare this to any other other naval fighter out there and its not so good.

Maybe chinese su-33 are worse than even this but in 5 years chinese will boot everything they have got.
U can clearly see what they have been upto with their aesa destroyers,all indigenous mind u.

Thats why we should have got something better,,,maybe vixen aesa looking at the future as next upgarde maybe well after 10 years
 
Yes u are right when u compare that to harriers...............compare this to any other other naval fighter out there and its not so good.

Maybe chinese su-33 are worse than even this but in 5 years chinese will boot everything they have got.
U can clearly see what they have been upto with their aesa destroyers,all indigenous mind u.

Thats why we should have got something better,,,maybe vixen aesa looking at the future as next upgarde maybe well after 10 years

As I said, a decade down the line (from now, as in from 014) we will see upgrades, by then hopefully the Vishaal will be steaming around.
 
As I said, a decade down the line (from now, as in from 014) we will see upgrades, by then hopefully the Vishaal will be steaming around.

Yes thats my biggest fear.......................that we will continue a 90's technology radar into mid 2020's

Sounds horrible to me
 
Yes thats my biggest fear.......................that we will continue a 90's technology radar into mid 2020's

Sounds horrible to me

Not to the IN, for them this was a real leap, setting up the shore based infrastructure required, qualifying and training naval navigators on a completely different aircraft (the likes of which the IN has never operated) and sailors for a different ship (just because viraat and vik both have ramps doesn't make them the same sort of ship in terms of the variance in systems and architecture). All of this stuff that goes behind the scenes has been a major task for the IN.
 
Not to the IN, for them this was a real leap, setting up the shore based infrastructure required, qualifying and training naval navigators on a completely different aircraft (the likes of which the IN has never operated) and sailors for a different ship (just because viraat and vik both have ramps doesn't make them the same sort of ship in terms of the variance in systems and architecture). All of this stuff that goes behind the scenes has been a major task for the IN.

I agree the behind the scenes part u are referring to,,i really do.
But why not shell a few more(maybe 2 million$-3million$) per plane to get a better radar and irst?

Considering its the most important part of the modern generation fighter jet?
And comeon man even u know how big the difference exists between an average powered aesa and a zhuk-me!!

I think russians refused us the permission for a foreign radar,,thats the best explanation i have,as phazotron zhuk-ae was not complete at the moment.Same goes with irst.
Otherwise we cannot be so myopic in this regard,,i refuse to believe that.

And considering phazotron is literally fucked with only a handful of mig-29 being made now,,it would have literally killed the company.So i sense russian pressure in this,,we simply had no option
 
I agree the behind the scenes part u are referring to,,i really do.
But why not shell a few more(maybe 2 million$-3million$) per plane to get a better radar and irst?

Considering its the most important part of the modern generation fighter jet?
And comeon man even u know how big the difference exists between an average powered aesa and a zhuk-me!!

I think russians refused us the permission for a foreign radar,,thats the best explanation i have,as phazotron zhuk-ae was not complete at the moment.Same goes with irst.
Otherwise we cannot be so myopic in this regard,,i refuse to believe that.

And considering phazotron is literally fucked with only a handful of mig-29 being made now,,it would have literally killed the company.So i sense russian pressure in this,,we simply had no option

The Russians didn't deny anything, we simply chose not to, as I said the IN had a lot of things to take care of, the Ks were themselves being tested out just 5-6 years ago and weren't an established platform, it wasn't the case of upgrading an existing and operational platform like the Su-30s, it was felt that a low risk alternative was better, that's all.

AGAIN, what did I tell you, warfare is not platform centric, the IN is more concerned about the future of integrating fixed wing AEW&C assets within their ORBAT and in the CBG later in the next decade rather than fretting over having the absolute best fighters on deck, which makes sense. They are veritably building an institution here within the navy which will enable the growth of true force projection capabilities, its all about priorities.
 
I agree the behind the scenes part u are referring to,,i really do.
But why not shell a few more(maybe 2 million$-3million$) per plane to get a better radar and irst?

Considering its the most important part of the modern generation fighter jet?
And comeon man even u know how big the difference exists between an average powered aesa and a zhuk-me!!

I think russians refused us the permission for a foreign radar,,thats the best explanation i have,as phazotron zhuk-ae was not complete at the moment.Same goes with irst.
Otherwise we cannot be so myopic in this regard,,i refuse to believe that.

And considering phazotron is literally fucked with only a handful of mig-29 being made now,,it would have literally killed the company.So i sense russian pressure in this,,we simply had no option
I think you are thinking too much brother. can you tell me what aesa radars were available for us when we opted for migs?
 
The Russians didn't deny anything, we simply chose not to, as I said the IN had a lot of things to take care of, the Ks were themselves being tested out just 5-6 years ago and weren't an established platform, it wasn't the case of upgrading an existing and operational platform like the Su-30s, it was felt that a low risk alternative was better, that's all.

AGAIN, what did I tell you, warfare is not platform centric, the IN is more concerned about the future of integrating fixed wing AEW&C assets within their ORBAT and in the CBG later in the next decade rather than fretting over having the absolute best fighters on deck, which makes sense. They are veritably building an institution here within the navy which will enable the growth of true force projection capabilities, its all about priorities.

Calm down man:angel:
And now u have again started on su-30......................well the less i say the better:lol:

I think you are thinking too much brother. can you tell me what aesa radars were available for us when we opted for migs?

As i stated in the post they were not(russians)
But we could have opted for the selex-galileo vixen or a comparable one from other 3 rd parties.

But as dillinger said it was purposefully not done:crazy:
 
Calm down man:angel:
And now u have again started on su-30......................well the less i say the better:lol:

There is nothing to say about the Su-30, its what it is, its what we need, you need to educate yourself about how the forces go about in incrementally enhancing their capabilities, yes once in a blue moon a platform comes along that is a game changer (typically a real force multiplier) but most of the time its incremental improvements.

You might be thinking, why is the IAF not retrofitting an AESA on to the MKIs, the IAF is concerned with more important things which effect its combat effectiveness, its more concerned with a networked ADGE, with proper C4I nodes and net-centricity, its concerned with its ground infrastructure, with the integration of a greater number and type of stand-off munitions etc. etc. (and that's a patent super simplification). On the other hand we jingos here tend to have myopic views, no knowledge of the macro level situation and we tend to get tunnel vision with regard to some specific fighter or that fancy new tank.
 
There is nothing to say about the Su-30, its what it is, its what we need, you need to educate yourself about how the forces go about in incrementally enhancing their capabilities, yes once in a blue moon a platform comes along that is a game changer (typically a real force multiplier) but most of the time its incremental improvements.

You might be thinking, why is the IAF not retrofitting an AESA on to the MKIs, the IAF is concerned with more important things which effect its combat effectiveness, its more concerned with a networked ADGE, with proper C4I nodes and net-centricity, its concerned with its ground infrastructure, with the integration of a greater number and type of stand-off munitions etc. etc. (and that's a patent super simplification). On the other hand we jingos here tend to have myopic views, no knowledge of the macro level situation and we tend to get tunnel vision with regard to some specific fighter or that fancy new tank.

No comments at all...............
 
Calm down man:angel:
And now u have again started on su-30......................well the less i say the better:lol:



As i stated in the post they were not(russians)
But we could have opted for the selex-galileo vixen or a comparable one from other 3 rd parties.

But as dillinger said it was purposefully not done:crazy:
are you sure that selex vixen was ready in mid 2000s?
 

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