Discussion: Donald Trump as POTUS and its implications for Pak-US relations

[war&peace]

Finally, Donald Trump has won the election and been elected the president of the USA (PotUS) by people of USA. The purpose of this thread is to discuss its implications for Pak-USA relations (NOT whether it is a wrong decision or a good decision by US people).
It will be interesting to see how our predictions / opinions it turn out in reality over the course of time given the apparent notion about Donald Trump being an unpredictable and an anti-establishment character. We should also keep in my mind that USA has a big establishment with strong institutions (e.g. CIA, Pentagon, NSA, Think Tanks, Banker, Billionaires, Oil Cartel, defence industry) and that determines the long term policies and at least one hand of PotUS is believed to be tied to his neck.

I pose the following question to the audience to start the discussion. Please feel free to add relevant questions
Will the apparent thawing of relations between the two countries will accelerate, decelerate or we will be up for some surprises (in positive sense). How would this affect USA-India, US-China, US-Russia and US-other relations and their fallout on Pakistan.
Will USA continue to feed Afghanistan? as Donald Trump does not believe in free lunches and also wants good relations with Russia

To avoid trolling I have created this thread in seniors cafe, but not to exclude the juniors

@MastanKhan @Oscar @Kaptaan @Khafee @Indus Falcon @GreenFalcon @waz @Horus @Moonlight @risingsinga @Spring Onion @Akheilos @Arsalan @django @KAL-EL

 

[IceCold]

The relations between US and Pakistan are not great at the moment, with Trump things will likely go down the spiral even more. What is important is that at this important time, we have the likes of NS leading us. Trump does not worry me, its NS that does because he is the one representing Pakistan and at a position of power. If Trump like he said in his election speech says to release Shakeel Afridi, can we expect from the likes of NS to say no? I very much doubt it. The only thing we can expect from NS is to badmouth his own country's institutions specially the army.
I sincerely hope that before Trump settles in properly, Nawaz is booted out by SC. Otherwise it would be Pakistan bashing, drone strikes, nuclear falling out to terrorist nonsense and Do more specially from Indian perspective.

 

[war&peace]

The relations between US and Pakistan are not great at the moment, with Trump things will likely go down the spiral even more. What is important is that at this important time, we have the likes of NS leading us. Trump does not worry me, its NS that does because he is the one representing Pakistan and at a position of power. If Trump like he said in his election speech says to release Shakeel Afridi, can we expect from the likes of NS to say no? I very much doubt it. The only thing we can expect from NS is to badmouth his own country's institutions specially the army.
I sincerely hope that before Trump settles in properly, Nawaz is booted out by SC. Otherwise it would be Pakistan bashing, drone strikes, nuclear falling out to terrorist nonsense and Do more specially from Indian perspective.

Yes it takes two hands to make a clap and of course PM of Pakistan plays an important role. Unfortunately we have the most incompetent and corrupt govt which can go to any depth / length for saving its corruption. Nawaz Shareef will rather use this opportunity to defame and portray as an evil organisation and the Dawn-leaks are an evidence. Army must take an action on this serious breach of national security (as ISPR termed it) using powers provided to them by official / army act and should not keep waiting for SC on Panama Leaks since these are two different issues and Dawn-leak is even more serious than Panama-Leaks.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

He'll hold the fire closer to Pakistan's feet.

People expect him, for some reason, to get results fast. Many of the pro/leaning Pakistan Senators/Representatives have retained their seats. So there is a cushion of some sort.

But that cushion is fast deflating, "America lacks a stomach for an empire" it also lacks patience. While America's future is aligned with India, corporate America will forgo Pakistan's 200 million for the bigger better market. Pakistan will have to continue it's purge of terrorist sympathies, President Obama may have overlooked the favoritism of pro-ISIS Pakistanis over pro-American but he wouldn't. Pakistan doesn't hasn't kept it's cards to the chest.

As much as President-elect Trump assails President Obama's "weak leadership", he'll keep the course in International Relations picking battles he can win. He'll congratulate Pakistan's victories against terrorism, but will not restrain India, try anything like Mumbai/Uri again and artillery strikes will be the least of Pakistan's worries.

Both Trump and the Republican Congress need to align their views to keep this electoral map in 2020. Neither will rock the boat too hard, the markets will fall but recover, the world will continue to revolve.

 

[IceCold]

Yes it takes two hands to clap and of course PM of Pakistan plays an important role. Unfortunately we have the most incompetent and corrupt govt which can go to any depth / length for saving its corruption. Nawaz Shareef will rather use this opportunity to defame and portray as an evil organisation and the Dawn-leaks are an evidence. Army must take an action on this serious breach of national security (as ISPR termed it) using powers provided to them by official / army act and should not keep waiting for SC on Panama Leaks since these are two different issues and Dawn-leak is even more serious than Panama-Leaks.

Agreed but i think army still is reluctant and perhaps waiting for the next COAS to settle in before making a decision in this regard. In the meanwhile they will wait for what the SC has to say. If Nawaz gets booted out by the SC, than it will be two birds killed by one stone. Nawaz gone and army staying at the side lines perhaps not giving these scums of the earth a chance to declare themselves political martyrs.

He'll hold the fire closer to Pakistan's feet.

People expect him, for some reason, to get results fast. Many of the pro/leaning Pakistan Senators/Representatives have retained their seats. So there is a cushion of some sort.

But that cushion is fast deflating, "America lacks a stomach for an empire" it also lacks patience. While America's future is aligned with India, corporate America will forgo Pakistan's 200 million for the bigger better market. Pakistan will have to continue it's purge of terrorist sympathies, President Obama may have overlooked the favoritism of pro-ISIS Pakistanis over pro-American but he wouldn't. Pakistan doesn't hasn't kept it's cards to the chest.

As much as President-elect Trump assails President Obama's "weak leadership", he'll keep the course in International Relations picking battles he can win. He'll congratulate Pakistan's victories against terrorism, but will not restrain India, try anything like Mumbai/Uri again and artillery strikes will be the least of Pakistan's worries.

If India is affected by so called Pakistani terrorism than Pakistan is suffering worst from Indian sponsored terrorism for decades. If US chooses sides and declare open hostility towards Pakistan, rest assured China will not stay put either. They have made it clear that China will stand by Pakistan in any eventuality.

 

[deckingraj]

Agreed but i think army still is reluctant and perhaps waiting for the next COAS to settle in before making a decision in this regard. In the meanwhile they will wait for what the SC has to say. If Nawaz gets booted out by the SC, than it will be two birds killed by one stone. Nawaz gone and army staying at the side lines perhaps not giving these scums of the earth a chance to declare themselves political martyrs.

There is difference in election rhetorics and actual geo-politics. Loosing Pakistan is not in US interest...As long as US interests are well served i don't see much of an issue...simple...

If India is affected by so called Pakistani terrorism than Pakistan is suffering worst from Indian sponsored terrorism for decades. If US chooses sides and declare open hostility towards Pakistan, rest assured China will not stay put either. They have made it clear that China will stand by Pakistan in any eventuality.

Again wrong...Direct confrontation with US at behest of Pakistan is not in china's interests...There is enough already on the South China corridor so no...

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

If India is affected by so called Pakistani terrorism than Pakistan is suffering worst from Indian sponsored terrorism for decades. If US chooses sides and declare open hostility towards Pakistan, rest assured China will not stay put either. They have made it clear that China will stand by Pakistan in any eventuality.

Prepare better Dossiers.

(It looks really thin considering India is responsible for everything including the high costs of petrol.)

China will look out for China. Pakistan can be "China's Israel" but even America carefully considers it's battles for Israel.

America wants results. Listen don't come off on me, Pakistan has made accomplishments in it's fight on it's part against Terrorism. But you can't bit<h about getting cut when you're doing the cutting too.

Lets see how the Taliban-Afghan Govt peace talks go. If Pakistan can come out front and take credit it'll be in it's interests to be the country that ends America's longest war.

 

[war&peace]

President Obama may have overlooked the favoritism of pro-ISIS Pakistanis over pro-American but he wouldn't. Pakistan doesn't hasn't kept it's cards to the chest.

Totally false and provocative. How can you support your sweepingly false statement? Do you have any statistics to support it even the fictitious one?

Again wrong...Direct confrontation with US at behest of Pakistan is not in china's interests...There is enough already on the South China corridor so no...

China is a business man but Pakistan has more significance for China than Israel has for USA.

 

[deckingraj]

China is a business man but Pakistan has more significance for China than Israel has for USA.

Look....historically there have been many occasions where Pakistan has been left alone...China didn't take sides in kargil and nor did it helped you in anyway when a mere call from Bush forced a u turn on AF policy...so i agree that the moment China interests are threatened they will be fight it out for you...but not otherwise...and also lets not single out China....Pakistan India and for that matter every country look out for their own interests first...You guys also refused to be drawn into Saudi's war recently..right??

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

Totally false and provocative. How can you support your sweepingly false statement? Do you have any statistics to support it even the fictitious one?

You think Trump gives a sh!t?

There's a +/-3 point spread for American polls. Global attitudes are tougher to gauge due to capability of sampling.

And this doesn't even show the a$$holes walking around Islamabad, Lahore, Quetta, Peshawar.

 

[war&peace]

I asked you show data that Pakistani majority supports ISIS and according to your data only 9 percent are pro-ISIS while pro-USA are 14% so your own data contradicts you...

here's a +/-3 point spread for American polls. Global attitudes are tougher to gauge due to capability of sampling.

And this doesn't even show the a$$holes walking around Islamabad, Lahore, Quetta, Peshawar.

I think you are one of them (red) or not any different than them (Again another sweeping statement)

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

I asked you show data that Pakistani majority supports ISIS and according to your data, it is only 9 percent are pro-ISIS while pro-USA are 14% so your own data contradicts you...

You should take a Statistics class.

 

[IceCold]

There is difference in election rhetorics and actual geo-politics. Loosing Pakistan is not in US interest...As long as US interests are well served i don't see much of an issue...simple...

That is the problem and which will lead to a conflict ultimately. US and Indian interests are aligned and Pakistan cannot be part of this new alliance.

Again wrong...Direct confrontation with US at behest of Pakistan is not in china's interests...There is enough already on the South China corridor so no...

I used the word IF. What do you think will happen to Chinese investment if Pakistan gets decimated in US and Indian attack? This is pure business and nothing sentimental.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

Add support for the Taliban & OBL also....

 

[war&peace]

Add support for the Taliban & OBL also....

I think if you use your brain, you will know that the guy who supports ISIS usually supports TTP and OBL too so it won't change the results

You should take a Statistics class.

Really for simple addition and subtraction, I need a class..Thank you mate,
I don't want to get into personal *ick measuring contest but since I have been asked, I have rather a strong background with double MS degrees in Aerospace Engineering and IT.
Now if you are over your anger, shouldn't we get back to topic and use facts and logics?