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Dassault: India Set ‘Difficult’ Conditions on MMRCA

India has set demanding requirements for industrial offsets in its fighter contest but Dassault is ready to negotiate on the deals, executive chairman Charles Edelstenne said June 17.

The Indian request for tender including offsets which were “very tough,” Edelstenne told journalists ahead of the Paris Air Show which opens June 20.

It will be “very difficult to answer to this request. We want to be chosen; we will negotiate on this subject,” he said.

Dassault: India Set
 
Edelstenne said the United Arab Emirates might be the first to decide on its fighter purchase, ahead of Brazil.
The present efforts in debt reduction by certain countries has led to postponement of new defense programs, but Dassault had taken a decisive step in India and was still being considered in the UAE, Brazil and Switzerland, Edelstenne said.
The Rafale was also being considered by other undisclosed countries, a company executive said. The French government has made export of the Rafale a “priority” because of the perceived importance of the fighter industry in political, technological and economic terms, and also because of the domestic budgetary needs, Edelstenne said.
France has written into its defense budgets export of the Rafale, and if those foreign sales fail to appear, funding must be found from other defense programs to finance an annual output of 11 aircraft, the minimum deemed for economic sense.

Dassault: India Set
 
even dhruv had spare parts problem earlier...
its better to be industrial partner and development partner
 
can EF 200 engine b fixed into jaguar aircraft ?

? guess engine ll b very big for that
 
or snecma kaveri engine into rafale , mirage 2000 and lca...

we can use mmrca deal to upgrade others as well

inncluding AESA radars
 
Dubai: There is a sense of optimism in the air at the offices of Dassault Aviation and Dassault Systemes in Paris, as the two bodies of the company blend to take its manufacturing, technological and scientific capabilities into a new era of commercial and defence aviation.
The manufacture of business aircraft takes up the bulk of the book for Dassault, while fighter jets like the Mirage 2000 and the recently developed Rafale ‘omnirole' fighter complete the picture. Exports account for over 60 per cent of net sales.
While Dassault has a proven pedigree in aviation and air defence systems, its pet project, the Rafale fighter jet, is currently the buzzword in countries hoping to upgrade their air fleets and also in live ‘operation theatres' such as Libya and Afghanistan, where it is being used in combat situations by the French Air Force.
Cautiously optimistic
Now, Dassault is cautiously optimistic of completing an export win with the possible sale of the fighter to the UAE, India and even Brazil. Currently the French air force is the Rafale's sole client and the whiff of a contract has never been so close.
"I would not say that the Rafale has suddenly come into the news," said Eric Trappier, executive vice-president, International, Dassault Aviation.
"We have established ourselves as a result of long, hard work in Europe, the UAE and India. The UAE and India have been longstanding clients of Dassault — with the purchase of Mirage 2000s — and this means that they have been satisfied with what we have had to offer before," he said.
Different approaches
"Different approaches are reserved for prospective clients. The Indian government ensured that the Indian Air Force (IAF) had invited six tenders from manufacturers," Trappier said.
"This was shortlisted down to two after Indian pilots worked technically and operationally on our planes," he said.
"This was phase one of the proposal: complete evaluation of the six manufacturers in their conditions with pilots exercising and even firing weapons and resorting to different types of flights in the desert and altitude. In the end they gave us their feedback and the two short listed manufacturers are the Rafale and the Eurofighter Typhoon."
Peculiarity
The peculiarity of this deal is that it is the first time that the Eurofighter and the Rafale have faced off against each other in a final countdown, even though they have competed in tenders. A triumph for either jet could well be a win-win for the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company (EADS) which owns a 46 per cent share holding in the Eurofighter consortium, as well as 46.3 per cent in Dassault.
An agreement for 126 aircraft with New Delhi could be potentially worth $10 billion-$12 billion (Dh36.7 billion-Dh44 billion).
"With the UAE, however, our approach is vastly different," Trappier said.
"We have a direct approach. This is based on the close relationship between the two countries. We made a few flights with the Rafale for evaluation. The UAE government is used to working with the French, which is why we have proposed the sale of roughly 60 Rafale jets."
Book value
The book value of this contract is believed to be in excess of $8 billion. It is now understood that negotiations have gone a step forward after France received technical and operational specifications from the UAE's armed forces along the sidelines of the ongoing Le Bourget Air Show in Paris. A date for signing a deal is to be set following financial negotiations.
Sources at Dassault are hoping that this will be closed in the UAE at the Dubai Air Show.
A further $7 billion deal with Brazil could complete the big picture for Dassault but for a few irritants in the negotiations. Former President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva came close to signing on the dotted line, after competitors like the Boeing F-18, Grippen Saab and the Typhoon had bowed out, but held back, leaving the decision to current President Dilma Roussef who took office last January 1.
"Each country has its own set of requirements and they focus on their individual capabilities," Trappier said, explaining the method behind individual negotiations.
Expounding on the logic behind making a multi-dimensional fighter like the Rafale, Trappier said: "The idea behind its creation is dominated by cost and financial restrictions. The general headquarters in France proposed building one single aircraft with all types of mission capabilities and one which could serve the French navy as well as the airforce."
Believing that this type of fighter aircraft could go on to become the norm for the future Trappier explained: "The military role and the omnirole capability are flexible because it is capable of adapting the strengths of the aircraft to the mission at hand. Missions can be more and more ‘wide', as in Afghanistan and Libya, or complete war — so it is easy when one has an aircraft capable of many purposes."
Lost contracts
Despite the Rafale's inherent strengths there were contracts that were lost, as in South Korea, Singapore and Morocco which opted for the Boeing F-15 and Lockheed Martin's F-16.
"If we are referring to South Korea and Singapore, we must remind ourselves that this is where the Americans are strong in terms of their political approach. American fighters had been sold before and so these countries went in for a process of continuity," he said. "Therefore, we don't consider it to be a loss as the process of negotiation was a foregone conclusion. Also, we must not forget that the Rafale was operational in the French Air Force only in 2006 so it is quite new."
Trappier believes the sky is the limit for the evolution of the Rafale.
No restrictions
"There are no restrictions. Some countries have even upgraded the F-5 aircraft which is an old plane. The Rafale can continue to be adapted for the next 30 years and will remain in the French forces for the next 40 years," he said.
"The systems in the plane were built up in order to receive these types of adaptations. There is no limit except a physical limit: like a limit on sensors on board. But the main sensors are there like the radar, the electronics, the countermeasures, the weapons," he added.
"In an aircraft which has an empty weight of 10 tonnes we have built a very well-conceptualised plane which may address everything, including the ration between fuel and capability to carry weapons and other such matters."
Looking at the future Trappier was confident in his view that more and more governments would be looking to trim their defence budgets.
On track
In this respect France is already on track.
"Prospects are open, but we developed the Rafale because we were pushed by our airforce and navy to do it. Whether the United States and other countries will do it is anybody's guess — they prefer dedicated fighters and their budgets are still huge. Maybe they will change."
With regard to the impending export of the Rafale, Trappier said: "There needs to be a level playing field where considerations are limited to the efficacy of the product. Serious testing must be the key and not just influence. The merchandise must be good after strenuous evaluation, but ultimately the selling of a fighter plane will always be the result of a political decision."

gulfnews : Rafale spearheads Dassault's growth
 
AIR_F-35A_Frontal_ATK_lg.jpg


Lockheed Martin Corp. (LMT) may offer its latest F-35 stealth fighter jet to India in a bid to rejoin the Asian country’s $11 billion combat-jet competition after the company’s older F-16 model was eliminated.Lockheed’s chances of offering the F-35 for the 126-plane order were boosted last week when the U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee asked the Defense Department to study the “desirability and feasibility” of a joint strike fighter sale to India, said Patrick Dewar, senior vice president for corporate strategy and business development, in an interview at the Paris Air Show.

The Senate committee report accompanying the Pentagon’s 2012 budget “opens the window to fifth-generation fighter technology release to India, however the Indian services want to deal with it,” Dewar said.

The Senate committee request for a Pentagon study on selling F-35s to India was part of a broader amendment on U.S.- India military ties offered by Senators John Cornyn, Republican of Texas, where the fighter is produced, and Joseph Lieberman, independent of Connecticut, home to United Technologies Corp. (UTX), which makes the plane’s engines.

Cornyn’s spokeswoman, Jessica Sandlin, said the amendment was “overwhelmingly adopted” by the Senate defense panel. Cornyn is the co-founder and co-chairman of the Senate India Caucus. The provision is a so-called “Item of Special Interest” that takes effect immediately after the bill report is issued. It doesn’t need House approval and “takes effect regardless of what happens to the bill itself,” she said.

MiG-Replacement

Lockheed’s F-16, based on a 30-year-old design, was eliminated in April from the six-way Indian contest to replace its aging fleet of 1970s-era MiG-21s, along with Boeing Co. (BA)’s F/A-18 Super Hornet. On the shortlist are Dassault Aviation SA (AM)’s Rafale and the Eurofighter made by BAE Systems Plc, Finmeccanica SpA (FNC) and European Aeronautic, Defense & Space Co.

The competition is one of the largest in recent years and also attracted bids from Russia’s OAO United Aircraft Corp. and Sweden’s Saab AB (SAABB), which offered the Gripen. President Barack Obama had lobbied on behalf of Bethesda, Maryland-based Lockheed and Chicago-based Boeing.

“I certainly believe it’s possible,” Dewar said when asked if the potential F-35 offer could lead to the Indian Air Force reopening the contest. India “might think differently about the competition” should the stealth jet become available.

‘Succumbing’ to U.S. Pressure

Admitting the joint strike fighter to the bidding at this stage would be “contrary” to India’s weapons-acquisition procedure, said Mrinal Suman, an arms-procurement adviser at the Confederation of Indian Industry in New Delhi. “It’s too late in the day,” he said. “It would be seen by many as succumbing to U.S. pressure.”

Indian defense ministry spokesman Sitanshu Kar couldn’t be reached for comment.

The Senate defense panel’s request to study the F-35 sale to India was part of a broader provision that would require the Obama administration to prepare a “detailed assessment of the current state of U.S.-India security cooperation.” The bill seeks a five-year plan for more joint military exercises, defense trade and support for India’s military modernization, homeland security and coastal defense, and maintenance of secure sea lanes of communication.

T-38 Partnership

The lawmakers also asked the Pentagon to study the possibility of a U.S.-India partnership for development of a replacement for the U.S. Air Force’s T-38 trainer jet. The planes, built by Northrop Grumman Corp. (NOC)’s predecessor, have been in use since the 1960s.

India has bought several U.S.-made weapon systems, including C-130J transports made by Lockheed, and on June 15 signed an order for 10 C-17 transport planes made by Boeing valued at about $4 billion.

The F-35 jet is still in development. At an estimated $382 billion, it’s the Pentagon’s most expensive weapons program. The U.S. Government Accountability Office has said the planes cost about $133 million each in today’s dollars. The Pentagon plans to buy more than 2,400.

Buying F-35s at $133 million each would boost India’s cost in acquiring 126 fighters by about 50 percent, from a currently estimated $11 billion to almost $17 billion.

Future-Generation Aircraft

In April, when India shortlisted the European jet makers, V.K. Kapoor, a retired lieutenant general in India’s military, said the choice was driven by technical merits.

“It was a by-the-book technical assessment that the American F-16 and F/A-18, despite their upgrades, are not future-generation aircraft,” Kapoor said in April. “They can remain current for another five or 10 years, but this deal is going to determine the operational capacity of our air force for the next 30 years.”
:smokin:
 
had this news came a few weeks earlier... european offer would have benn even sweeter
neverthless still they can make it...
i dont see any chance for f 35 without signing cismoa and others
TOT, inspection.... besides bending the rules for mmrca contract..

even new powerful engine offer by one of the vendor was rejected

unless a magic which is damn powerfull is cast this may not happen

IN will love to hear this news


seems like US have information that india is going for 125 million $....EF
so they think their 133 million $ f 35 will make india rethink - just my speculation;)
 
MRCA tender: US firm Raytheon locks onto India
Published: Monday, Jun 20, 2011, 21:29 IST
Place: LE BOURGET, France | Agency: PTI

Vying for a pie in India's planned procurement of 126 MMRCA fighters, US defence major Raytheon today said it was eager to supply weapons systems for being integrated onto the jets to be selected from among two shortlisted European companies.

Harry Schulte, Raytheon vice-president of Air Warfare Systems said the company has a suite of air-to-air and air-to-surface weapons systems that could be integrated on Rafale or Eurofighter, the two shortlisted plane makers by India, subject to US government approval.

"Raytheon is prepared to meet India's national security needs and support the protection of India's sovereign interests with our air-to-air and air-to-surface weapons," he said at the Paris Air Show here.

India has shortlisted two European contenders, French Dassault Rafale and European Eurofighter for procuring 126 Medium-Multirole Combat Aircraft (M-MRCA) deal for the Indian Air Force (IAF) in April.

He said Raytheon's Paveway systems with proven track record could be integrated into the 126 MMRCA. Raytheon's Paveway is a kit that transforms "dumb" bombs into precision-guided munitions; Paveway is currently in the inventory of the Indian Air Force and 41 other countries.

The Paveway family of weapons are platform independent and integrated on more than 27 aircraft.

Noting that India was a priority country for Raytheon, he also announced the firm's desire to integrate the combat-proven Paveway systems on India's Light Combat Aircraft (LCA).

"Raytheon has been a trusted partner to India for more than three decades, and we hope to deepen this relationship by providing the Indian Air Force the tools it needs to defend India's sovereign interests," said Harry Schulte, Raytheon vice-president of Air Warfare Systems.

"India's air warriors deserve the world's most accurate direct-attack precision guided munition, which is why Raytheon's Paveway is a perfect fit for the LCA.

Integrated on the Rafale and Eurofighter, Paveway has been extensively used in several ongoing contingency operations. Raytheon's battle-tested Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile is integrated on the Eurofighter.

Raytheon officials also indicated that subject to the approval of the US and Indian governments, Raytheon is looking for partnership opportunities to produce critical components of Paveway with Indian industry.

"Raytheon has the utmost respect for the capabilities of India's defense industry," said Peter Wray, vice president of business development for Raytheon Missile Systems in India.

"If Raytheon were to receive the proper authorisations and find the right partner, we'd be eager to pursue co-production opportunities".
 
It's out of the competition, but they still have some hope:

PARIS: Saab's Gripen NG demonstrator visits Le Bourget

...Following the completion of avionics testing later this year, the NG will be equipped with Selex Galileo's ES-05 Raven active electronically scanned array radar.

"The next aircraft will be coming in October 2013, and is being built from scratch as an NG," said Nilsson. This will bring a new look for the Gripen, with a longer fuselage, increased wingspan and new engine inlets.

Saab is also holding out hopes of getting the NG back into an Indian contest for 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft. However, its chances hinge on the nation balking at the cost of acquiring either of its favoured candidates: the Dassault Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon.

PARIS: Saab's Gripen NG demonstrator visits Le Bourget
 
An Advanced Radar from Thales

Paris 2011: Thales Brings Consistency to Rafale Radar: AINonline

Sincerely hopping we get 100% ToT on radar from Dassault.. engine is not provided is fine..

Full ToT + source codes is on offer and I would like to see a co-development on LCAs AESA based on the RBE 2 AESA as well. Could get an article, or some more infos about Kaveri - Snecma engine integration into Rafale in the next days, would be an very interesting option and imo even more important than the radar. Because we could get an AESA co-development with other Europeans, Russians, or the Israelis, but the only possibility to get an engine co-development and using the engine in MMRCA, is offered by Rafale!
 
^^^
Hey Sancho is there any indication that India will be building separate aesa for different fighters ?/ If not then i think we should opt for Elta because e/l 2052 is only one of the aesa which can fit on every fighter as we can change the number of modules based on the diameter of the nose. While in other aesa we cannot change as per our requirement. In short e/l 2052 can fit on lca as well as mmrca as well as su30mki (or fgfa or amca) while other aesa's doesnot have this feature.
 
e/l 2052 can fit on lca as well as mmrca as well as su30mki (or fgfa or amca) while other aesa's doesnot have this feature

2052 is denied to us under american pressure and there are indications that American companies want to handle AESA radars for LCA themselves ..
 
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