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Crimea gave China a pause on SCS- My POV

Please read my last line again.
Either way only an alliance of china ,india and russia is big enough in 20 years from now to challenge NATO,,but as stated earlier its highly unlikely.

But who knows.

Regarding resources u might wanna take a look at chinese inroads in africa and southamerica.

Having some partnerships with industries and governments does not equate to being a military alliance.

I believe you are confusing a BRICS mandate from that of a military treaty. Challenging NATO as you've claimed above means coming out as a military challenge to it and as a group
 
I believe you are confusing a BRICS mandate from that of a military treaty. Challenging NATO as you've claimed above means coming out as a military challenge to it and as a group

U have again quoted a selective line.

The full paragraph was

"Either way only an alliance of china ,india and russia is big enough in 20 years from now to challenge NATO,,but as stated earlier its highly unlikely.Mainly because india dosen't seem interested in this thing,our main priority is better life to the population and have no enmity with west or east except pakistan.Chinese are a worry but we hope a settlement will be reached in this decade."

Then i said this

"But BRICS will serve as a pure economic block in future,,thats a good possibility."


:coffee:
 
This OP is really a half-baked self-claimed 'experts' his/her line of logic reflects high dose of Cold War propaganda taken during the early life.

causes, consequences and affairs seem to play out so simply and naively in their fairy 'righteous' American/Western way of thinking while carry high load of ignorance``:D
 
This OP is really a half-baked self-claimed 'experts' his/her line of logic reflects high dose of Cold War propaganda taken during the early life.

causes, consequences and affairs seem to play out so simply and naively in their fairy 'righteous' American/Western way of thinking while carry high load of ignorance``:D

I am afraid u seem to be right here.
 
Someday you will catch up to actual information available to the free world.
So the free world is not privy to dark US government secrets. I guess some Westerners are "freer" than others.

Many including your bosses would say that the U.S. being successful at simply changing regimes in those two countries, and getting a permanent U.S. presence in them is a U.S. victory. Especially in Afghanistan where we now are sitting in your backyard.

Watch us circle you. ;)
BBC ON THIS DAY | 15 | 1989: Soviet troops pull out of Afghanistan
 
@he-man You seem to have swallowed the Chinese propaganda, hook, line & sinker. :) In 15-20 years China can actually become another "Could have been a global superpower" case. I can list the reasons if you want.
 
@he-man You seem to have swallowed the Chinese propaganda, hook, line & sinker. :) In 15-20 years China can actually become another "Could have been a global superpower" case. I can list the reasons if you want.

No i know more than u what they have/are doing in electronics and manufacturing.
They are defacto number 2 in world if u take away 8000 odd nukes from russia.
 
While not making light of the turmoil, deaths and terrible tragedy that is taking place in Crimea- Not all is bad that came out of the invasion.

For the longest, many of us were wondering how aggresive would China get in the SCS. Would they muscle themselves into annexing islands and taking up more waters as a part of their ecosystem. Even those of us who have spent decades within various foreign policy agencies, were scouring for any hints of what next. We were having a difficult time predicting the extent China would go to, and frankly how soon.

What was worse was that we had disjointed answers or solutions that we would recommend. From the extremes of suggesting we deploy our ships in the areas we felt would be of the greatest risk- after all we had the countries that were threatened, privately almost begging us to come to their aid . To simply building up the military capabilities of those nations most affected to 'sanctions'.

Never in our dreams would we have imaged Crimea taking place, and although “sanctions” were a tool we had at the back of our minds.. We were not sure of Europe and NATO going along with us is making any such sanctions, as being effective.

Simply put the world is intertwined and dependent on each other for its economies and China plays a vital role in those dependencies.

China beware:
Then Crimea happened, and although excruciating slow at the beginning, Europe and US came together much stronger, with a great deal of help from our allies in the middle east, to prove that we would not allow Russia to simply annex parts of another country.

Europe showed a lot of fortitude in taking the brunt of risks. Unlike the U.S., it was Europe that had a lot to lose from a Russian blowback with it being more dependent on Russia's oil and gas resources.

The subsequent fortitude showed has got the Chinese diplomats and regime thinking twice. Should they imagine a muscle into the South China Sea, oddly based on the notion of some homemade maps and a 9 dashed line theory- it will then have to contend with going up against a strong response from U.S and its allies.

Daniel Russel, US point man for East Asia said “"The net effect is to put more pressure on China to demonstrate that it remains committed to the peaceful resolution of the problems," Russel, the U.S. assistant secretary of state for East Asia, told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

Russel said the retaliatory sanctions imposed on Russia by the United States, the European Union and others should have a "chilling effect on anyone in China who might contemplate the Crimea annexation as a model."


We got your debt in our palms
The threat of it holding U.S debt, while not insignificant or really that large- would not much matter. You see the Chinese would be cutting their own foot if they risked any such economic calamity as it needs these markets to do well, to keep its economic engines going. Messing with Uncle Sam is not just easy and he comes with a lot of friends. This why you don't see the Russians selling off its assets and bonds in the U.S.

Added to this the world is watching the outcome of the case that was filed against China by the Philippines at The Hague. Although China at the offset, like a petulant child, declared it would not adhere to the rulings. A favorable ruling would give Philippines the PR victory in its legitimacy over China’s claims. And it would add more legitimacy to the rest of us, on the sidelines.



Chinese leadership is lot pragmatic and rational than Russian leadership.

There is a reason they have accumulated $4000 billions of reserves.

And how did they do it?

by carefully trading with the US, UK and EU.

Even though there are a lot of nationalistic forces in China, the leadership itself will refrain from challenging the West (the way Putin has done). But every thing is not set in stone. It is quiet possible that Chinese nationalists especially PLA may force the hand of Chinese gov like what happened in Japan just before the attack on Pearl Harbor.

But oveall your analysis is right on the money,




happy new year
 
No i know more than u what they have/are doing in electronics and manufacturing.
They are defacto number 2 in world if u take away 8000 odd nukes from russia.

And what exactly they are doing in electronics and manufacturing that will ensure a "Superpower" status for them?
 
What exactly they are doing in electronics and manufacturing that will ensure a "Superpower" status for them?

No need for a spat here,,i am well aware of ur anti china stance.Some other time in whatever.

End it.
 
No need for a spat here,,i am well aware of ur anti china stance.Some other time in whatever.

End it.

Okay! But I am not saying this because of my 'anti-China stance'! There are reasons that you will see unfolding slowly in next one decade. :)

And btw, we will probably become 'friends' with Pakistan in next 50 years, but our rivalry with China will only increase. :)
 
Okay! But I am not saying this because of my 'anti-China stance'! There are reasons that you will see unfolding slowly in next one decade. :)

And btw, we will probably become 'friends' with Pakistan in next 50 years, but our rivalry with China will only increase. :)

Yup that last line may well be true..........
 
Oil production was not boosted by Saudis, rather they refuse to lower it. Nor did we pressure them one bit on it. Now, I don't expect you to know this because let's face it- the bossman has not brought you up to speed, and since you will never bother to actually research the reasons behind the fall in prices- Well, the result is that we read yet another ignorant claim made by you

The reasons for drop in oil prices are many:.
1. The U.S., if you have not heard from the Minister of Talking points, has increased its shale oil production by an additional 4 million barrels per day. For the first time the U.S. is no longer importing oil form Nigeria and imports from OPEC have been cut in half.

2. Libya, yes that libya where you had many investments, to only helplessly watch it collapse by NATO- has increased its oil production to near 800,000 barrels much sooner than expected, and are poised to reach 1 million barrels per day, quickly.

3. Then OPEC has a problem. Saudis and its partners are at a price war among themselves and it sure helps the rest.

Finally we have a host other smaller contributing factors including a weak economic outlook in Europe


Spot on my friend. This is the reason why Oil price went down. These reasoning alone makes you credible in my eyes. I would add a (4)th point - slowdown in China demand for Oil also contributing to lower Oil price.

None of the hyper-nationalists here read actual data, but rather repeat nonsense/conspiracies heard from the idiotnet(internet in the hands of idiots). No one knows US production went from 6 mpd to 9 mpd from 2010 to 2014. OPEC/Russian/Saudi production is stagnant. Soon USA may surpass Russia(10 mpd)/Saudi(9.5 mpd).

One Question : what are you doing here arguing with idiots & Govt paid trolls here ? why try to make any effort ? Go enjoy your retirement, instead of engaging the hyper-nationalists here. defence.pk is just a congregation of such folks.
 
Gaaaahhhh! Czechezslovakia! Afghanistan! Russians like to attack weak pro-Russian allies and install puppets. (You know their crude joke about allies, women, and beatings, I presume.) Plus you forgot that once self-isolated by seizing control of political media the Kremlin necessarily resumed being self-referential and obsessive: once they got hung up on something they'd stay hung up on it, bringing to bear all resources deemed necessary to "fix" matters, rather than stopping to think that their perceptions or priorities were to blame.

Good grief, twenty years without the USSR and Kremlinology is all in tatters, I thought State had a better institutional memory than that.

I'm going to be honest my man, my theatre of responsibility was Afghanistan/ Pakistan/India. I'm sure the guys responsible for that desk were well aware and kept an eye on it. I personally feel that we did not have any good options, other than to get europe on board with sanctions.
 
Chinese leadership is lot pragmatic and rational than Russian leadership.

There is a reason they have accumulated $4000 billions of reserves.

And how did they do it?

by carefully trading with the US, UK and EU.

Even though there are a lot of nationalistic forces in China, the leadership itself will refrain from challenging the West (the way Putin has done). But every thing is not set in stone. It is quiet possible that Chinese nationalists especially PLA may force the hand of Chinese gov like what happened in Japan just before the attack on Pearl Harbor.

But oveall your analysis is right on the money,




happy new year

Are you referring to what every chinese here brag about ? That they will just wake up one day and dump all federal bills in open market ? :lol:

What if we refuse to pay our obligations only to china specifically ? Can anyone do anything about it ? :lol:

We will also threaten to sanction the countries which tries to makes any block deals with china in this regard.
 
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