Concepts / Ideas for the Pakistan Navy

[FuturePAF]

Just got another thought...

What if we take the Babur-class (MILGEM PN) and design a sub-variant for OPV, MCMV, etc roles?

Call it the 'Multi-Mission Patrol Vessel' (MMPV).

The 'standard' fit could include ESM with ELINT and SIGINT, EO/IR, a Thales SMART-SMk2-type radar, etc. But we could also leave two 'modular mission bays' available for different roles, such as CSAR, HADR, and MCMV. For the MCMV role, the MMPV could be the 'mothership' to manage AUVs, USVs, and ROVs.

Finally, some structural commonality with the MILGEM PN could allow the PN to convert some MMPVs into wartime corvettes with AShMs, ASW torpedoes, and even SAMs (via externally-mounted VLS).

Definitely, because The MSA needs to be robust enough to control the EEZ, and with all the traffic out of the strait of Hormuz on to Asia, the risk is very high enemy traffic can hide in the littorals or near the traffic passing by. The Milgem hills are quiet enough for ASW, so they should be quiet enough but also large enough for this role.

We probably also need platforms akin to oil drilling platform within the EEZ to house sensors or be a refuge for sailors far out at sea in case of a storm. Our fish men need the full support of the government to help grow the fishing industry. These platforms can also be where smaller ships sell their fish and the fish can be transferred to large ships to go back to shore or be sold directly to other countries with ships passing by.

 

[CSAW]

QUOTE : "A poster at SAS 22 shows an MQ-9 SeaGuardian
dropping sonobuoys and carrying a torpedo."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1511405325290725377

 

[Abid123]

Need to invest more in A2/D2 assets.

 

[CSAW]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1514483608974680065

 

[PakAlp]

AI drone missiles are the future for me. I would invest heavily in to missiles which have cameras inside them like drones. They could travel 5000km and we send them for patrol everyday, they are controlled from the ground, or can self operate, they check all area for danger and then come back to base or the mother ship, then another one leaves on patrol. The missile has wings, radar, anti jamming capability etc like Babur missile, it can slow down to save energy and if any danger emerges it hunts it down. These missiles operate at sea, air, ground, they can be stealth mode under the sea until a threat emerges and it goes after it. Imagine 5000 missiles under the sea waiting for Indian navy or during war 5000 in the air waiting for Rafale. Game over. They will replace the expensive aircrafts, submarines because we use submarine and aircrafts to fire missiles but these missiles are themselves mini subs and aircrafts.

Mods please delete my post if this is a game changing idea and Indians may copy it

 

[arslank03]

AI drone missiles are the future for me. I would invest heavily in to missiles which have cameras inside them like drones. They could travel 5000km and we send them for patrol everyday, they are controlled from the ground, or can self operate, they check all area for danger and then come back to base or the mother ship, then another one leaves on patrol. The missile has wings, radar, anti jamming capability etc like Babur missile, it can slow down to save energy and if any danger emerges it hunts it down. These missiles operate at sea, air, ground, they can be stealth mode under the sea until a threat emerges and it goes after it. Imagine 5000 missiles under the sea waiting for Indian navy or during war 5000 in the air waiting for Rafale. Game over. They will replace the expensive aircrafts, submarines because we use submarine and aircrafts to fire missiles but these missiles are themselves mini subs and aircrafts.

Mods please delete my post if this is a game changing idea and Indians may copy it

lag raha hai ke roza lag gaya

 

[PakAlp]

lag raha hai ke roza lag gaya

It may seem like it but doesn't this look like a future AI plane/drone.

What if the range was 5000km, and it could navigate itself to destroy planes, it could avoid detection, have high maneuverability so it can escape missiles, jamming. It can also think for itself since it has AI technology. Drones can fly in the air for 48 hours without returning to the base, the missile technology could also be improved so they could fly.

Babur type torpedo could be made. A predator in the sea waiting for the enemy. It could travel 5000km, identity enemy submarines and hunt them down.

 

[arslank03]

It may seem like it but doesn't this look like a future AI plane/drone.
View attachment 834477
What if the range was 5000km, and it could navigate itself to destroy planes, it could avoid detection, have high maneuverability so it can escape missiles, jamming. It can also think for itself since it has AI technology. Drones can fly in the air for 48 hours without returning to the base, the missile technology could also be improved so they could fly.

Babur type torpedo could be made. A predator in the sea waiting for the enemy. It could travel 5000km, identity enemy submarines and hunt them down.

No, it does not, there are numerous engineering challenges that would be needed to overcome just to entertain the idea

 

[CSAW]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1515529194473762822

https://twitter.com/x/status/1515530579667824641

 

[FuturePAF]

AI drone missiles are the future for me. I would invest heavily in to missiles which have cameras inside them like drones. They could travel 5000km and we send them for patrol everyday, they are controlled from the ground, or can self operate, they check all area for danger and then come back to base or the mother ship, then another one leaves on patrol. The missile has wings, radar, anti jamming capability etc like Babur missile, it can slow down to save energy and if any danger emerges it hunts it down. These missiles operate at sea, air, ground, they can be stealth mode under the sea until a threat emerges and it goes after it. Imagine 5000 missiles under the sea waiting for Indian navy or during war 5000 in the air waiting for Rafale. Game over. They will replace the expensive aircrafts, submarines because we use submarine and aircrafts to fire missiles but these missiles are themselves mini subs and aircrafts.

Mods please delete my post if this is a game changing idea and Indians may copy it

The closest thing I know to this was what a former acquaintance of mine (who was working for university on behalf of D@**A, or that’s what he told me) talked about. Something like the following.

Probably just another cancelled program by now.

Btw, something less revolutionary and more feasible should be the PN studying to put boosters on their LY-80A (70 km) to more then double their range for at least a 16 VLS addition to the aft mid body of the Type 054A/P frigates. Something akin to the IN’s Barak 8 ER. It would just require a longer VLS cell and could allow the PN to pick a follow on heavy Frigate that is not too dissimilar to the Type 054A/P to save on costs; perhaps just an upgrade to a four faced AESA and enhanced ASW.

The base missile for the Barak 8 ER seems comparable to the Ly-80A. Technology from the PL-15 could be applied to the future upgrades of the LY-80A as well.

IAI’s Barak-ER Performs Successful Ballistic missile Intercept - Defense Update:

Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) today unveiled details of the comprehensive trials series of Barak-ER system, tested against a range of scenarios and threats, culminated with the intercept of a ballistic missile target by the BARAK ER (Extended Range) interceptor. BARAK-ER provides wide-area...

defense-update.com

https://i0-wp-com.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/i0.wp.com/www.globaldefensecorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/type-054B.jpg?w=1010&ssl=1

Also, considering the F-22P frigates are due for a midlife upgrade. The importance of giving the ship an integrated mast, especially in light of the sinking of the Moskva by sea-skimming AShCM during rough seas. An integrated mast with EO/IR sensors, fixed S and X band radars at least for the self protection last 10-20 nautical miles is becoming more essential to counter drone swarms or salvos of anti ship cruise missiles.

A mast like the following or something insipired by something from Thales

 

[arslank03]

The closest thing I know to this was what a former acquaintance of mine (who was working for university on behalf of D@**A, or that’s what he told me) talked about. Something like the following.

Probably just another cancelled program by now.

Btw, something less revolutionary and more feasible should be the PN studying to put boosters on their LY-80A (70 km) to more then double their range for at least a 16 VLS addition to the aft mid body of the Type 054A/P frigates. Something akin to the IN’s Barak 8 ER. It would just require a longer VLS cell and could allow the PN to pick a follow on heavy Frigate that is not too dissimilar to the Type 054A/P to save on costs; perhaps just an upgrade to a four faced AESA and enhanced ASW.

The base missile for the Barak 8 ER seems comparable to the Ly-80A. Technology from the PL-15 could be applied to the future upgrades of the LY-80A as well.
View attachment 835057

IAI’s Barak-ER Performs Successful Ballistic missile Intercept - Defense Update:

Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) today unveiled details of the comprehensive trials series of Barak-ER system, tested against a range of scenarios and threats, culminated with the intercept of a ballistic missile target by the BARAK ER (Extended Range) interceptor. BARAK-ER provides wide-area...

defense-update.com

https://i0-wp-com.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/i0.wp.com/www.globaldefensecorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/type-054B.jpg?w=1010&ssl=1

Also, considering the F-22P frigates are due for a midlife upgrade. The importance of giving the ship an integrated mast, especially in light of the sinking of the Moskva by sea-skimming AShCM during rough seas. An integrated mast with EO/IR sensors, fixed S and X band radars at least for the self protection last 10-20 nautical miles is becoming more essential to counter drone swarms or salvos of anti ship cruise missiles.

A mast like the following or something insipired by something from Thales
View attachment 835062

Well, there's an easier solution lol, buy more CAMM-ER's. There are a lot more issues with HQ-16 that won't be solved by just strapping a booster onto it.

 

[FuturePAF]

Well, there's an easier solution lol, buy more CAMM-ER's. There are a lot more issues with HQ-16 that won't be solved by just strapping a booster onto it.

CAMM-ER has a 50km max range, which we also need, but we need a 150 km range missile that is highly maneuverable and cost effective. The HQ-16 could be made to work, but if not it needs to be replaced by a naval variant of the PL-15.

With supersonic anti ship cruise missile we need maneuverable missiles to provide a decent layered defense, so I agree we need CAMM-ER missiles, but as an addition to a long range missile in the 150 km range.

 

[arslank03]

CAMM-ER has a 50km max range, which we also need, but we need a 150 km range missile that is highly maneuverable and cost effective. The HQ-16 could be made to work, but if not it needs to be replaced by a naval variant of the PL-15.

With supersonic anti ship cruise missile we need maneuverable missiles to provide a decent layered defense, so I agree we need CAMM-ER missiles, but as an addition to a long range missile in the 150 km range.

Well, this isnt entirely accurate.

CAMM baseline has scored kills at 50km during testing, of course, the usefulness will be limited, good for things like slow drones.

Aside from that, HQ-16 is hardly the height of manueverability. You also cant just strap a booster to the missile, there is alot of work and design that would go into such a thing. The HQ-16 also cant be guided more than 30-35km as that is the range of the MR90 illuminator. Building a new missile makes more sense, HQ-16 is old now. CAMM-ER performs better and is 1/7th the weight and can fit 4x the missiles in less space

 

[FuturePAF]

Well, this isnt entirely accurate.

CAMM baseline has scored kills at 50km during testing, of course, the usefulness will be limited, good for things like slow drones.

Aside from that, HQ-16 is hardly the height of manueverability. You also cant just strap a booster to the missile, there is alot of work and design that would go into such a thing. The HQ-16 also cant be guided more than 30-35km as that is the range of the MR90 illuminator. Building a new missile makes more sense, HQ-16 is old now. CAMM-ER performs better and is 1/7th the weight and can fit 4x the missiles in less space

Perhaps we can ditch the HQ-16 when the Type 054A/P frigates go through a refit in 15 years or so. By which time, we will hopefully have experience with CAMM-ER on the Milgem, and can develop a PL-15 naval variant, with booster. Swapping out the 32 cell VLS for 16 cells carrying 64 CAMM-ER and 16 PL-15ER missiles; a decent mix of 80 missiles for a ship the size of the Type 054A/P. All within the same space. A new integrated mast with 4 fixed dual band AESA radars could help guide the missiles to over 100 km and search out to 300 km. Hopefully more then enough to take on supersonic and hypersonic anti-ship cruise missiles.

 

[FuturePAF]

AI drone missiles are the future for me. I would invest heavily in to missiles which have cameras inside them like drones. They could travel 5000km and we send them for patrol everyday, they are controlled from the ground, or can self operate, they check all area for danger and then come back to base or the mother ship, then another one leaves on patrol. The missile has wings, radar, anti jamming capability etc like Babur missile, it can slow down to save energy and if any danger emerges it hunts it down. These missiles operate at sea, air, ground, they can be stealth mode under the sea until a threat emerges and it goes after it. Imagine 5000 missiles under the sea waiting for Indian navy or during war 5000 in the air waiting for Rafale. Game over. They will replace the expensive aircrafts, submarines because we use submarine and aircrafts to fire missiles but these missiles are themselves mini subs and aircrafts.

Mods please delete my post if this is a game changing idea and Indians may copy it

Too late, DARPA got a hold of your idea and made it