'City of Light' (Holy city of Madinah) could recapture an intellectual leadership role

[SarthakGanguly]

We NEVER comment on Indian affairs because it does not interest us. Unfortunately there are many Indian trolls on PDF who have a habit of commenting not only on Arab affairs but ME affairs as a whole which is kind of annoying especially if the comments only contain idiotic posts, lies, unmotivated insults and in general trolling.

Chill. Ignore and get back to your thread.

 

[Pakistani shaheens]

another peaceful thread ruined by indian monsters.

 

[syedali73]

@al-Hasani You are preaching to the choir. I have not denied Arab's contribution for one has to be really blind or insane in hatred to do that. My point was very different that you did not get perhaps. Please re-read my post. I have tried to argue why a nationalist KSA will not make it beyond certain point unless she adopts the policies of the USA with regards to giving equal opportunities to everyone, not only KSA nationals.

 

[al-Hasani]

@syedali73

We can discuss this in greater detail where I will give you plenty of links, videos, personal testimonies etc., links to Saudi Arabian student clubs in the US, Canada, France, UK, Germany etc. Go on social media (Facebook, Twitter etc.) and ask the Saudi Arabian students abroad about their background and you will realize that they come from all over the country, from all kind of families, sects etc. So I really don't know where you get your idea from.

Saudi Arabian students just in the US are the most numerous after Chinese, South Korean and Indian students.

Now China has a population of 1.3 billion, India 1.2 billion, South Korea 50 million and KSA of 30 million. Those numbers are on top of my head but I don't think that I am wrong.

That's pretty damn impressive. Per capita we are leading BY FAR.

More Saudi Arabians studying in the U.S. - Los Angeles Times

12,500 Saudi Arabians graduate in United States

You are telling me that those ladies below are all from the so-called "upper class" in KSA? This is nonsense.

1,613 Saudis graduate from Australia

Those are just recent threads on PDF. I missed the other 2-3 similar threads made by users here.

Look I know several House of Saud members (I studied with 2 in the US) but they are not overly represented at all but obviously they usually tend to receive well educations. From Sandhurst to the top universities in the UK, US etc. IF they are good enough academically mind you.

 

[punit]

Look nobody denies that the West has been leading the world for the past 500 years when it comes to science but for millenniums us Arabs/Semites/people of the ancient ME were leading. So it's not like we don't have it in us. The problem is that the most bright heads relocate to the West and their achievements are counted as that of American, British, French, German etc. achievements.

Anyway everyone in KSA is able to get the education he wants to regardless of his background. Don't confuse KSA or the GCC as a whole with other Muslim countries. It's not by a coincidence that around 150.000 Saudi Arabian students since the late 1960's (if I recall correctly) have been educated abroad. They come from all historical regions, provinces, cities, backgrounds etc. in KSA.

I am surprised that you even think that only the well-to-do families have this opportunity when all that matters are grades in KSA. Not what your name is.



No, it's not incorrect unless you want to despite well-known history or the history of Mathematics. Anyway whatever pleases you. I did not instigate anything. I am just answering insults with insults by a well-known anti-Arab troll that tends to pollute dozens of threads from the ancient Arab world or ME for reasons that are unknown to me. Either he was mistreated by some Arab or he was rejected by an Arab girl. I don't know what it is because Arabs don't give much attentions to Indians who are not even our neighbors. We NEVER comment on Indian affairs because it does not interest us. Unfortunately there are many Indian trolls on PDF who have a habit of commenting not only on Arab affairs but ME affairs as a whole which is kind of annoying especially if the comments only contain idiotic posts, lies, unmotivated insults and in general trolling.

calm down sir !lets not derail the thread ! @Yeti you too sir!

 

[jbond197]

@al-Hasani - We will debate the history & Mathematics in some other thread so just don't start off-topic discussion. But since this thread is about your holy city, you would not like to talk piss on the same.

Also, there are plenty of Arab trolls on this forum who write $hit about Indian internal matters, primarily joining Pakistani trolls on the religious grounds so please don't try to take high moral grounds.

 

[al-Hasani]

@al-Hasani Are persians and egyptians arabs/semites???

Nobody even mentioned Farsis in this thread. Why should we? We have much older civilizations than them. In fact it were us Semites (Assyrians more precisely) that even attested firstly that there were a people called that some 2800 years ago when they emerged from the deserts and steppes of Central Asia (google Androvono).

Yes, Egyptians are that.

@al-Hasani You are preaching to the choir. I have not denied Arab's contribution for one has to be really blind or insane in hatred to do that. My point was very different that you did not get perhaps. Please re-read my post. I have tried to argue why a nationalist KSA will not make it beyond certain point unless she adopts the policies of the USA with regards to giving equal opportunities to everyone, not only KSA nationals.

Aha. But my friend you do know that KSA hosts more foreigners in its lands than any other country outside of the US and 1-2 others? KSA is second in terms of remittances only to the US.

We have academics, workers, professors from across the world.

But I get your point. The problem is though that USA or the new world (Americas) cannot be compared to the old world. For reasons that you probably know already.

It's like saying "hey" why don't Germany admit 10 million African, Bengali etc. refugees overnight? This would erase German culture. Similarly with KSA. KSA might be a diverse country overall but we are an Arab country and if we adopt the values of the US fully we will stop being what we are and instead turn into something else. USA is a land founded upon immigration. KSA and all other counties in the old world are not that. Or most at least.

Now the natives inhabitants of the US (native Americans) were largely killed off so obviously this gave room to the hundreds of ethnic groups that now call themselves Americans. You can't do that in KSA. It's impossible unless you adopt a new identity. In such a proud, ancient and conservative culture like the Arabian were heritage, lineage, traditions are FIERCELY upheld this sounds like a crazy idea. No matter if the times changes.

Anyway this is a complicated discussion.

 

[syedali73]

Nobody even mentioned Farsis in this thread? Why should we? We have much older civilizations than them. In fact it were us Semites (Assyrians more precisely) that even attested firstly that there were a people called that some 2800 years ago when they emerged from the deserts and steppes of Central Asia (google Androvono).

Yes, Egyptians are that.

This is all irrelevant if you believe (as per Quran) that all the humans are the offspring of Adam and Eve.

Aha. But my friend you do know that KSA hosts more foreigners in its lands than any other country outside of the US and 1-2 others? KSA is second in terms of remittances only to the US?

We have academics, workers, professors from across the world.

But I get your point. The problem is though that USA or the new world (Americas) cannot be compared to the old world. For reasons that you probably know already.

In the presence of those reasons, renaissance is not in sight.

 

[al-Hasani]

@al-Hasani - We will debate the history & Mathematics in some other thread so just don't start off-topic discussion. But since this thread is about your holy city, you would not like to talk piss on the same.

Also, there are plenty of Arab trolls on this forum who write $hit about Indian internal matters, primarily joining Pakistani trolls on the religious grounds so please don't try to take high moral grounds.

There is nothing to debate. What I wrote is correct. All historical facts, history etc. attest to it. I am talking about the beginnings of math. Mathematics just like anything else was in a constant (and still is) and thus was influenced by various peoples but the initial beginnings happened among us Semites in our lands (current Arab world and the ME). Just like dozens of other inventions.

Really? Despite Arabs being the second biggest ethnic group on the planet after the Han Chinese the Arab users on PDF can be counted on 4-5 hands. The active ones on 3 hands. I have personally never written on the Indian section and I doubt that more than 1-2 Arab users have ever done so let alone worrying about India. Why the hell should we? Give me one good reason. On the other hand Indians are one of the most active users when it comes to Arab affairs and ME affairs as a whole. Ask Turkish, Farsi etc. users and they can also confirm it as you also comment on their matters.

In fact Arabs/Semites/people of what is now the Arab world and what is now India and Indians have had trading relations that are 5000 years old. Mostly the ties were good. There is no hatred found from Arabs in regards to Indians. Only the opposite way around.

Trade and cultural links between ancient Arabia and ancient India date back to third millennium BC.[1]

Heptulla, Nejma. Indo-West Asian relations: the Nehru era. Allied Publishers, 1991. ISBN9788170233404.

Visit the Indian embassy in KSA's webpage and vice versa. They attest it too and so do dozens of historical documents, books, history etc.

In fact Islam was first spread by Arab merchants and sailors in Southern India 1400 years ago. Why, because Arabs/Semites had traded with that part of India and others (whole of Western India) for MILLENNIUMS.

 

[al-Hasani]

This is all irrelevant if you believe (as per Quran) that all the humans are the offspring of Adam and Eve.

In the presence of those reasons, renaissance is not in sight.

Yes, but he asked a historical question and I gave him the correct answer.

Please read my post number 23. You will get the main point there.

You cannot compare the US with any country out there. Nor the "New World" (the Two Americas, Australia, New Zealand etc.) with the "Old World".

For starters the native inhabitants of the "New World" are far and few between so this has enabled ethnic groups from the whole world (starting with the Western Europeans that colonized it and to this day are still the majority although a twinkling one in the US) to settle down and start a new life under a new assumed identity called "American".

You cannot do such a thing in KSA, Pakistan or 99% of all the countries in the "Old World".

How did 3.5 million Arabs end up in the US? 40 million Arabs in Latin America? Shakira, Salma Hayek, Carlos Slim (world's richest man) are their descendants. They are Mexicans and Colombians now.

Being an Saudi Arabian, Iraqi, Egyptian etc. implies that you have roots to that land and its native people. Not roots in Bangladesh, Pakistan, Singapore, Indonesia, Peru etc.

If you want open borders to exist in KSA you will have to convince one of the most traditional people who are very loyal to their ancient traditions etc. to live in a new reality that will never be changed again.

Once you open the borders you start that new reality. In KSA that would mean that 25% of the population would now be of foreign background many not even able to speak Arabic.

I agree that the laws in terms of nationalization, visa rules, even citizenship could be made more liberal but only when it comes to attracting the brightest heads. If not KSA will be overrun by poor people from third world countries. From afar and from the Arab world too. This is the truth and I am not sure that this would be a great thing. In fact I am quite sure that it would not be a good thing.

The problems of illegals in KSA are already quite big.

This is not about any racism or anything this is wanting what is the best for the country. We now live in nation states and the borders are not open anywhere. This is how the modern world is. It was not like that once but that's just how it is whether one likes it or not.

 

[Pakistani shaheens]

Real estate project in Madinah.

Madinah Gov. Prince Faisal bin Salman launched a massive real estate project here Tuesday, which is estimated to cost SR55 billion.
The project, comprising 100 residential towers with four-star to five-star hotels, will accommodate more than 120,000 people. The state-owned Public Investment Fund is financing the project.
Finance Minister Ibrahim Al-Assaf, Haj Minister Bandar Hajjar and other senior government officials attended the launching ceremony. The project will create an additional 40,000 rooms near the Prophet’s Mosque in Madinah to meet the needs of visitors.
The building will also house the Haj Ministry’s branch office in Madinah, the office of the Higher Haj Committee, other related Haj agencies, office of the Saudi Commission for Tourism and Antiquities and offices of the Tawafa organizations for pilgrims from different countries.
The Ministry of Finance revealed that the project, named Dar Al-Hijrah, is being built on an area covering 1.6 million square meters, adding that it would take two years to complete. Of the 100 towers, 20 will be used for administrative purposes and 80 for residential purpose. Each building would have 30 floors.
According to the ministry, the project will also include 76 four-star hotels and six five-star hotels offering rooms for 40,000 people. The government offices are designed to accommodate 31,000 employees.
The project will also house a 400-bed hospital. A railway station would also be built to transport up to 84,000 pilgrims daily to and from the Prophet’s Mosque on lines elevated above the streets and bus station.
The project would be implemented over three phases, the ministry said. The first phase would include the foundation building process. The second phase would see the building of offices for the Ministry of Haj, which would open before the next Haj season. The third phase involves the construction of residential buildings, which would open after next year's Haj season.
The project site has already been handed over to contractors. The project is part of projects ordered by Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Abdullah to expand and upgrade the Prophet's Mosque and surrounding areas.

 

[syedali73]

I am a Sharif ...

I am asking this question just out of curiousity otherwise I do not believe in the superiority of clans etc. You are Sharif, it means you are a direct descendant of Muhammed (PBUH) from Imam Hassan (RA). What are your views on the Muhammed's (PBUH) descendants from Imam Hussein's (RA) branch of family?

 

[al-Hasani]

I am asking this question just out of curiousity otherwise I do not believe in the superiority of clans etc. You are Sharif, it means you are a direct descendant of Muhammed (PBUH) from Imam Hassan (RA). What are your views on the Muhammed's (PBUH) descendants from Imam Hussein's (RA) branch of family?

How can I have another view other than both lineages being descendants of Prophet Muhammad (saws) all the way to Prophet Ibrahim (as) ? Us Makkawi Hashemites intermarried with both lineages for centuries. I do not consider any lineage better than the other. All lineages are the creation of Allah (swt). I don't judge people on their lineage or revere them just for that. Respect yes but more when it is earned by your own actions and accomplishments. I just countered his "Sheikh" comment or whatever it was.

Anyway we should stick to the topic. We are way off-topic already and this thread/news don't deserve this. Unfortunately that Indian troll (not sure if he is banned now) managed to provoke me by his unmotivated insults, historical lies etc. so the thread was derailed.

@Zarvan

See the excellent post of @Pakistani Shaheen

 

[Jungibaaz]

No more off topic posts.

 

[jbond197]

Last time I checked you commented on my post here and not the other way around.

This is pure nonsense based on nothing more than your imagination. Not sure if I should take that seriously.

Oh really? When had I any problems with any Indian workers? When I am in the GCC I sometimes eat at Indian/South Asian restaurants and I have quite a few South Asian friends. I am just telling you the ground realities.

So you admit bullshitting about your imaginative "Arab atrocities on Hindus"? Fine.

More imaginative talk. I am not involved in that.

LOL, what? It was your compatriot that started it all. Everyone can see that including the moderators. Don't get ahead of yourself.

Tolerance? Yes by that logic we are tolerant too for hosting millions of you and building Hindu temples for you etc. despite you only being temporary workers/residents.

Listen dude!! Read my first comment on this thread and it was to stop trolling by an Indian member and you. But I think it was a mistake to advise an Arab something worthwhile!!

Arab atrocities are not imaginary they are part of the history. Just because you want to keep your head buried in the sand, the facts will not vanish.

And If my compatriot had started trolling, then you indulged with him in trolling too and that's why I quoted one of your posts.

You don't get it. right? Why are you hosting them? tell me?
Those folks are out there because your companies hired them. Since they are there they will not start eating your food, start following your religion. They must have demanded for their worship place and your authorities since they needed these people allowed them their places of worship in limited numbers. They are managing and paying for those facilities themselves, so again you are not doing them a favor. If you want them there, you will have to agree to their bare minimum needs even if they are low skilled workers.

My last post on this thread.