CHINA PROVIDED Z10 HELICOPTER TO PAKISTAN

[Donatello]

So the Chinese are using Pakistanis as Guinea pigs, making them do the testing on their behalf? Why can't they do it themselves? Is it too risky for the Chinese to do so?

No wonder they've given these choppers for free. But until further research and development is done, neither the Chinese would be able to use it nor can it be up for sale to other countries as no one will accept untested hardware. This will probably take another 3-5 years or so for it to be fully operationalized.

Yea just like the Soviets used the Indians as guinea pigs for their Migs.....

 

[SQ8]

Yea just like the Soviets used the Indians as guinea pigs for their Migs.....

That is rather ironic because it is true. However, preaching to a hypocritical mindset wont work. The FACT that a LOT of military hardware used by both countries was untested in combat as the poster implies and the clients were as a matter of fact guinea pigs.. but as stated before.. there are the usual suspects who have nothing better than to post quasi-trolling arguments with the usual hypocrisy to get their daily dose of sadistic relief.

 

[MastanKhan]

I could never understand this 'unproven technology' argument. F-16 is arguably one of the most potent and proliferative fighting machine of modern times. When it was incepted, was it based on a proven technology? F-117 and F-22 are technological marvels; were they based on any proven technology? AH-1 Cobra is the forefather of the attack helicopter design; was it based on any proven technology?

What is proven technology? This term, most of the time,is used incorrectly. In case of WZ-10, it is very well based on a proven technology, the technology behind the engine, the technology behind the rotors, the technology behind the overall shape of an attack helicopter (used in AH-1), the technology behind armored protection.What is technologically not proven? It is not that WZ-10 is a novel platform altogether powered by some mysterious engine running on a substance not present on the periodic table. Anything that has passed the initial phases of design and evaluation and entered into serial production is already technologically proven. What is remained to be done is to test the performance parameters of the machine in various environments and upgrade it as desired.

That is my two cents.

Hi,

Proven technology means that someone with known experience and reputation and technical expertise is manufacturing the item in question that has over the years proven its reliability under duress.

Its real test is going to come now---the field test---. Now e will know how it acts under duress---what works and what fails---.

When I go buy a Honda or a Toyota known for their quality cars---I have least concern for quality---I know that the car maker has been in business for many a years and knows what they are making.

But otoh---if I was looking for a Chevrolet / Ford ? Dodge I already know that even though they have years of experience----but they have quality and reliability issues

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Yea just like the Soviets used the Indians as guinea pigs for their Migs....

The FACT that a LOT of military hardware used by both countries was untested in combat as the poster implies and the clients were as a matter of fact guinea pigs..

Indians received ALL the Equipment AFTER the Warsaw Pact Countries
had received the new equipment

For example T 72 Tank ; Mig 29 ; BMP2 and Mi 35 Helicopters ; IL 76 etc ; all were
handed to India after Warsaw Pact nations had received and tested such weapons

There is also another crucial difference
The Cold war was on in the Eighties and the Russians were building up a
Huge Conventional force to overrun Europe

So the weapons were supposed to be battle ready and battle worthy

 

[SQ8]

Indians received ALL the Equipment AFTER the Warsaw Pact Countries
had received the new equipment

For example T 72 Tank ; Mig 29 ; BMP2 and Mi 35 Helicopters ; IL 76 etc ; all were
handed to India after Warsaw Pact nations had done so

A lot of them had seen combat regardless of who got them. India getting them was their choice. Essentially whatever India received was the M models.. the M models were generally inferior to what was with the Soviet union and were called "monkey" models. Yet India bought them.

But forget about it, I have come to the conclusion that it is PSYCHOLOGICALLY impossible for a certain percentage of Indians to accept ANYTHING that shows their nation in a negative light.. even if they have to be hypocritical enough to alter basic facts such as "the earth going around the sun".. they will do it.

So please don't bother quoting me in any reply you might have, I have no time for such thought processes.

So the weapons were supposed to be battle ready and battle worthy

Possibly the most STUPID comment ever heard to try and justify "Your Dog is a bitch but mine is Pricilla".

 

[Armstrong]

That is rather ironic because it is true. However, preaching to a hypocritical mindset wont work. The FACT that a LOT of military hardware used by both countries was untested in combat as the poster implies and the clients were as a matter of fact guinea pigs.. but as stated before.. there are the usual suspects who have nothing better than to post quasi-trolling arguments with the usual hypocrisy to get their daily dose of sadistic relief.

Do you think whatever was learned was shared by the guinea pigs back with the manufacturers or would the information have been kept strictly confidential ?

 

[SQ8]

Do you think whatever was learned was shared by the guinea pigs back with the manufacturers or would the information have been kept strictly confidential ?

It always goes back. for e.g The Chinese took everything they learnt from our F-7 experience into their later production models both at home and in export.

 

[Armstrong]

It always goes back. for e.g The Chinese took everything they learnt from our F-7 experience into their later production models both at home and in export.

They learnt ? Would we be the ones doing the learning because we were the ones flying the F7s ? Would then it be on our discretion to share whatever we wish to share ?

 

[OrionHunter]

Yea just like the Soviets used the Indians as guinea pigs for their Migs.....

Sorry, we didn't test their MiGs!

Epic fail!

 

[Amaa'n]

wow fist VT4 and now Z10 --- somebody is going to have rough night

 

[Sine Nomine]

@Oscar why everybody around is at hype,regarding that Z-10,if PAA has got it will be tested from sands of thar to heights of siachen and in sucking heats of Jacobabad,result of machine sensors and on board systems will be fully analyzed and then any decision will be made, already JFT caused lot of abusing from pilots and PAC was busy all the time in doing work according to there feed back...

 

[Stephen Cohen]

wow fist VT4 and now Z10 --- somebody is going to have rough night

Not at all India has SIMILAR and in some areas Better equipment than Pakistan

But where we have an unassailable lead is in NUMBERS
ie overwhelming firepower asymmetry when compared to Pakistan

 

[Zarvan]

wow fist VT4 and now Z10 --- somebody is going to have rough night

Well but there is no news of VT 4 and you great man are also not posting pictures

 

[Bossman]

Not at all India has SIMILAR and in some areas Better equipment than Pakistan

But where we have an unassailable lead is in NUMBERS
ie overwhelming firepower asymmetry when compared to Pakistan

So whats the big deal? You always had a lead in numbers and still we dominated for a thousand years and you cann defeat us now.

 

[Zarvan]

@Oscar why everybody around is at hype,regarding that Z-10,if PAA has got it will be tested from sands of thar to heights of siachen and in sucking heats of Jacobabad,result of machine sensors and on board systems will be fully analyzed and then any decision will be made, already JFT caused lot of abusing from pilots and PAC was busy all the time in doing work according to there feed back...

Yes first we should test it on beloved TTP and if it works than test it in desert and snow areas and use it against retired Tanks and other parts