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China missile hit highest suborbital level since 1976:

you are ignorant to the core
coverage does matter and matters very importantly!
if coverage does not matter why usa does not save all the money to have its gps focus on usa?

gps is part of the us hegemeony scheme!
The subject is not about coverage, which you brought on as a distraction. It is about being able to destroy a satellite in geostationary orbit.

Our PLA is doing okay
Sue us for your alledged "copying"

You have lost both wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Your vets are committing suicides and more of you are suffering from ptsds
the Talibans are re-grouping and you have no other choice but to retreat. All your "allies" have retreted or in process of retreatng
Now why would you want to copy such a terribly performing military? :lol:

show us usa can shoot down a satellite at GEO then we talk
According to 'Chinese physics', we cannot.

dont need to prove anything for "gambit technology" to cement our reputation of Physics in the realm of science!
According to 'Chinese physics', only Chinese satellites are in geostationary orbits, our GPS satellites are not.
 
The subject is not about coverage, which you brought on as a distraction. It is about being able to destroy a satellite in geostationary orbit.

it was you who started and made a huge blunder over the ”coverage“ nonsense


Now why would you want to copy such a terribly performing military? :lol:

did you accuse us of "copying" yours

According to 'Chinese physics', we cannot.

because of "gambit technology"

According to 'Chinese physics', only Chinese satellites are in geostationary orbits, our GPS satellites are not.

we are saying "shooting down GEO satellites"! can you read properly other than to digress

fold up your “gambit technology” concepts please the world has enough pollution!
 
it was you who started and made a huge blunder over the ”coverage“ nonsense
What 'blunder'? Where? It was on post 28 where YOU brought on coverage. :lol:

did you accuse us of "copying" yours
Accuse? Another laugh. I only pointed out the obvious and you admitted that the PLA is outright copying US.

They say 'Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.' And the US military say to the PLA: 'Thanks, we are flattered.' :lol:

because of "gambit technology"
Which taught you guys every bit of military technology you guys know.
 
The Chinese officially release news report simply said more than 10,000 km, but read below what pentagon spokewoman told Airforce Magazine,

Airforce Magazine -- Chinese Anti-Satellite Test?

A Chinese space launch this week ostensibly for peaceful scientific research may actually have been a test of a new Chinese anti-satellite weapon, according to US press reports. China's state-run Xinhua news agency reported the May 13 launch of a high-altitude sounding rocket from southwestern China that was meant to investigate energy ions and magnetic fields in space. However, the mission was actually a test of the so called Dong Ning-2 missile that China could fire to attack a satellite, reported the Washington Free Beacon on May 14, citing US officials. The test reflects a significant advance in Chinese counterspace capabilities, claimed the Beacon. A Reuters report on Wednesday citing a US defense official made similar claims. Asked for comment, Pentagon spokeswoman Lt. Col Monica Matoush told the Daily Report on Wednesday: "We detected a launch on May 13 from within China. The launch appeared to be on a ballistic trajectory nearly to geosynchronous Earth orbit. We tracked several objects during the flight, but did not observe the insertion of any objects into orbit and no objects associated with this launch remain in space." China tested an ASAT weapon in 2007 that created thousands of pieces of debris on orbit. The Pentagon's newly issued 2013 annual report on Chinese military developments states that China is acquiring "a range of technologies" to improve its space and counterspace capabilities.

—Marc V. Schanz

5/16/2013
 
The Americans are getting really really scared. They know when they fall they will fall hard. Their allies are fighting each other. China has Russia and the Muslim world backing it. Even the attempt to recruit India and Australia failed. America has too many enemies now. Losing a conventional regional war in East Asia will be the last of its empire.

That is why it failed to protect Philippines in the South China Sea and Japan in the East China Sea.

3 Chinese vessels enter Japanese waters near Senkakus
 
No it isn't.

Because you don't want it to be so. The citation I provided which says PINS is 280 times more accurate is from USAF. Please tell everyone why we should believe you and not USAF?

GPS doesn't drift.
GPS is used to update the INS system, which drifts.

Sorry the above claim is laughable. GPS drift is a well known phenomenon.In Jan 2004, GPS drifted by 300 km for three hours due to a technical glitch. See below, other causes of error and drift. Smaller error occur every day but since the drift is small less than a 100 meters it is not noticed by civilians.

GPS/GNSS Drift / Year-To-Year Accuracy (Y2Y) / Long-term Accuracy: Drift can be defined as
GPS/GNSS receiver (guidance system) accuracy over time. Causes of drift are changes in satellite
configuration, operating near trees or other obstacles, and satellite data errors.

Pass-to-Pass Accuracy (P2P): Represents the short-term (<15 min.) relative accuracy of a GPS/GNSS receiver but does not necessarily reflect long-term accuracy (which includes drift). One can think of this as the accuracy between adjacent, parallel passes made within 15 minutes of one another.
https://sites.aces.edu/group/crops/precisionag/Publications/Timely Information/GPS-GNSS_Drift.pdf


Error due to Satellite orbit

Orbital biases occur within the ephemeris transmitted,mostly as a result of un-modeled gravitational forces.

Error due to satellite clock

Satellite clock The satellite clocks experience drift and noise which are modeled and included as part of the broadcast message,although residual error remains.

Jump or drift of clock on satellite – GNSS depends on the predictable
performance over 48 hours of precise atomic clocks carried onboard the
satellites. On occasion, these clocks behave unpredictably, and produce
errors that grow slowly in a potentially dangerous way before the operators
can spot it and mark it as unhealthy. On 1st January 2004, the clock on GPS
satellite SVN-23 drifted for 3 hours before the command centre marked it
unhealthy, by which time the range error had grown from 0 to 300 km



Error due to Ionosphere and plasmasphere

The signals are delayed in the region above an altitude plasmasphere of 80km by an amount proportional to the number of free electrons. The effect is lower when the satellite is at the zenith than when it is near the horizon and it is frequency dependent. Uncorrected this is the largest error source.

Troposphere

Delay in the signal caused by varying temperature and humidity levels at up to 12km in height. Basic models can correct up to 90%.

Receiver noise

Inherent noise within the receiver which causes jitter in the signal. Multipath In addition to the direct satellite-to-receiver path, the signals are also reflected from the ground and other objects. These cause multiple copies of the signal or a broadening of the signal arrival time both of which reduce precision.

http://www.raeng.org.uk/news/publications/list/reports/RAoE_Global_Navigation_Systems_Report.pdf
 
The Americans are getting really really scared. They know when they fall they will fall hard. Their allies are fighting each other. China has Russia and the Muslim world backing it. Even the attempt to recruit India and Australia failed. America has too many enemies now. Losing a conventional regional war in East Asia will be the last of its empire.

That is why it failed to protect Philippines in the South China Sea and Japan in the East China Sea.

3 Chinese vessels enter Japanese waters near Senkakus


I wonder how many Chinese lurkers cringe every time you submit a post. If you were American I'd be deeply embarrassed.
 
The Chinese officially release news report simply said more than 10,000 km, but read below what pentagon spokewoman told Airforce Magazine,

Airforce Magazine -- Chinese Anti-Satellite Test?

A Chinese space launch this week ostensibly for peaceful scientific research may actually have been a test of a new Chinese anti-satellite weapon, according to US press reports. China's state-run Xinhua news agency reported the May 13 launch of a high-altitude sounding rocket from southwestern China that was meant to investigate energy ions and magnetic fields in space. However, the mission was actually a test of the so called Dong Ning-2 missile that China could fire to attack a satellite, reported the Washington Free Beacon on May 14, citing US officials. The test reflects a significant advance in Chinese counterspace capabilities, claimed the Beacon. A Reuters report on Wednesday citing a US defense official made similar claims. Asked for comment, Pentagon spokeswoman Lt. Col Monica Matoush told the Daily Report on Wednesday: "We detected a launch on May 13 from within China. The launch appeared to be on a ballistic trajectory nearly to geosynchronous Earth orbit. We tracked several objects during the flight, but did not observe the insertion of any objects into orbit and no objects associated with this launch remain in space." China tested an ASAT weapon in 2007 that created thousands of pieces of debris on orbit. The Pentagon's newly issued 2013 annual report on Chinese military developments states that China is acquiring "a range of technologies" to improve its space and counterspace capabilities.

&#8212;Marc V. Schanz

5/16/2013
The plan was always to take out the GPS. Before, China only tested concepts and technologies. Now that we reached geosynchronous orbit the weapon has actually been developed and tested. That is why it has a name now, Dong Ning 2.
 
Because you don't want it to be so. The citation I provided which says PINS is 280 times more accurate is from USAF. Please tell everyone why we should believe you and not USAF?

The USAF isn't wrong.

It's your interpretation of what they said that is wrong. :lol:

PINS is 280 times more accurate than standard INS.

It's not better than GPS.

Sorry the above claim is laughable. GPS drift is a well known phenomenon.In Jan 2004, GPS drifted by 300 km for three hours due to a technical glitch. See below, other causes of error and drift. Smaller error occur every day but since the drift is small less than a 100 meters it is not noticed by civilians.

Glitches have nothing to do with anything.

GPS doesn't drift.

It's used to cancel INS drift.

“Among the reasons to doubt the claim that GPS jamming had anything to do with the loss of the RQ-170 is a simple overlooked fact,” says a third U.S. analyst. “GPS is not the primary navigation sensor for the RQ-170 or for most other air vehicles. The vehicle gets its flight path orders from an inertial navigation system, which is essentially unjammable unless you want to monkey with the local gravitational field. The GPS updates the INS and cancels its drift. So, even a full GPS blackout would simply cause the vehicle to be a bit less accurate,” he adds.

Tale of RQ-170 Hijack In Doubt as Told in Tehran
 
What 'blunder'? Where? It was on post 28 where YOU brought on coverage. :lol:

gambit BLUNDER #1:

you said:
This latest Chinese launch is at best half of the typical GPS orbit altitude. So what make you think that we cannot deny the Russians and the Chinese their satellite assisted navigation system, considering we are the pioneers of the concept and as well as the leader in ASAT weapons?

Here is an illustration for you:

512px-Comparison_satellite_navigation_orbits.svg.png


pick up your magnifying glass check out which is in higher orbit. COMPASS or GPS?


gambit BLUNDER no. 2

you said:

Coverage is irrelevant. And hegemony have nothing to do with this.

And I replied

you are ignorant to the core
coverage does matter and matters very importantly!
if coverage does not matter why usa does not save all the money to have its gps focus on usa?

gps is part of the us hegemeony scheme!


In either case - by altitude or by coverage - you lose
you are OWNED AGAIN! and all together in Multiple times now!



Accuse? Another laugh. I only pointed out the obvious and you admitted that the PLA is outright copying US.

I said if you accused us of "copying" then sue us. When we havent received anything legal from you that means you dont have any case in summary against us.

You are just admitting our tech is different from yours - Your outright confirmation of our achievements!

They say 'Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.' And the US military say to the PLA: 'Thanks, we are flattered.' :lol:

you are self-hullcinating in front of a mirror showing obesity, not flattery

Which taught you guys every bit of military technology you guys know.

you - the gambit technology which inspires us for good jokes!
 
Satellite assisted navigation systems: GPS, Glonass, and Baidu are ALL GEOSTATIONARY ORBITS'. :lol:

Wrong. :lol:

XwUMQcK.jpg


BeiDou-1 is an experimental regional navigation system, which consists of four satellites (three working satellites and one backup satellite). The satellites themselves were based on the Chinese DFH-3 geostationary communications satellite and had a launch weight of 1,000 kilograms (2,200 pounds) each.

Unlike the American GPS, Russian GLONASS, and European Galileo systems, which use medium Earth orbit satellites, BeiDou-1 uses satellites in geostationary orbit. This means that the system does not require a large constellation of satellites, but it also limits the coverage to areas on Earth where the satellites are visible. The area that can be serviced is from longitude 70°E to 140°E and from latitude 5°N to 55°N. A frequency of the system is 2491.75 MHz.

BeiDou-2 (formerly known as COMPASS) is not an extension to the older BeiDou-1, but rather supersedes it outright. The new system will be a constellation of 35 satellites, which include 5 geostationary orbit satellites for backward compatibility with BeiDou-1, and 30 non-geostationary satellites (27 in medium earth orbit and 3 in inclined geosynchronous orbit), that will offer complete coverage of the globe.

Beidou Navigation Satellite System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
What a foolish post...

If I know my starting point but not precisely my destination, I would use an age old technique called 'dead reckoning'...

Dead reckoning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Each 'fix' is essentially a starting point. So if I know my speed, altitude, and heading, with time I can estimate where I will be, or where I am at when I calculate a new current position.

That is how flyers flew since the early days of aviation. Once a pilot arrived at where he believed/estimated to be New York City, for example, he would search for landmarks or any distinguishing features that would indicate NYC. If he is a sh1tty navigator, then instead of NYC he could be in Havana, Cuba.

Any wonder why I call you guys 'conscript rejects'? :lol:


And this reasonable assumption give you a logical conclusion that we did not explore alternate navigation techniques that does not rely so heavily on GPS?

I 'get it' better than you do. And yes, you still underestimate US. Keep on doing it...

Ego is lack of knowledge, knowledge is a lack of ego. If, indeed, you are right, there is no need for you to say "I get it better than you do". Simply point out my mistake, no need for such a rude remark.

Moving on, exploring and practicing alt-nav techniques are two different things. The US may have explored them, but when has it practiced them? Only US-specfor practice them, regular armed forces and US marines do not.
 
gambit BLUNDER #1:

you said:


Here is an illustration for you:
I know you guys are desperate to one-up everybody and anybody, especially when none of you have relevant experience in any of the fields in the many subjects discussed in this forum. So the only way for you to do so is to grasp at any opportunity to focus on the details, especially when they are inappropriate, to play 'gotcha'.

You guys' mistake here is in thinking that Medium Earth Orbit (MEO) is a fixed altitude. It is not. It has a range. Here is a more accurate illustration...

orbit_class_zps798f3f3d.jpg


In terms of altitude, a geosynchronous orbit have the same altitude as a geostationary orbit.

Medium Earth Orbit (MEO) begins at 480km and stretches all the way up to 35,800km. Notice the phrase 'Medium Earth orbit begins 300 miles'. If there is a 'begins' there is an 'ends'. No one with any bit of common sense and technical education is going to place a satellite at 500km altitude in the same category as one at 36,000km altitude even though technically speaking, both satellites are in MEO. To match that wide range of altitude, the orbital periods of MEO satellites ranges from 2 to 12 hrs. At the upper range of this scale, which is where GPS satellites are located (22,300km), satellites are moved into the classification of 'semi-'. You do know what the word 'semi-' imply, no?

But if you do want to get into the details, I will oblige and will dissect the relevant post...

BeiDou-1 and BeiDou-2 have satellites in geostationary orbit.*

When has the US demonstrated geostationary orbit ASAT capability? :lol:

Beidou Navigation Satellite System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

China's 2007 ASAT test at 537 miles (865 km) is higher than anything the US has done so far. :lol:

Anti-satellite weapon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The answer is yes&#8212;if you can hit BeiDou-2 satellites in geostationary orbit. :omghaha:

That has nothing to do with the geostationary or geosynchronous orbit but about altitude, as if somehow the US back in the 1980s made a serious error in placing the GPS constellation at 22,300km altitude and as if somehow China gained the upper hand today by placing the Baidu navigation satellite at a higher altitude. You guys seems to do not know that the US have placed geostationary and geosynchronous satellites before China entered the space race. The first was Syncom 3 in 1964. Your error in logical thinking here is that if China does something different, it must be better.

You guys seems to believe that an anti-satellite weapon is a technically restricted constructed device when it is not. An anti-satellite satellite is just another satellite with a different purpose. We can reassign a weather satellite's mission from gathering cloud info into collision with another weather satellite if we wanted to. There -- we just made an ASAT satellite.

How we place an ASAT satellite in a geostat/geosync orbit is no different than how we would place a communication satellite in its geostat/geosync orbit.

orbit_transfer_zps4300d289.jpg


If we can place Syncom 3 into a geostat orbit back in 1964, we can certainly place an ASAT satellite into the same altitude today. If anything, Baidu being in a geostat orbit make it easier to target because the satellite's location is constant. Not merely predictable. But actually constant. So look at the illustration above and see how Baidu can be targeted by an ASAT satellite. The Baidu satellite cannot maneuver, not because it cannot technically maneuver, but that if it maneuver to avoid the ASAT satellite, China will lose satellite assisted navigation coverage.

Here is Baidu's limited coverage...

File:Beidou-coverage.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you guys know why Baidu 1 is geostationary? It have little to do with technical achievement. It is old news for US. Because a geostationary location is essentially fixed over an equatorial country, there is a tacit understanding among space-competent countries that a geostationary orbital location should be reserved for that country. That is understanding, not law.

CelesTrak: "Basics of the Geostationary Orbit"
The fact that there is only one geostationary orbit presents a more serious limitation.

Who Owns the Geostationary Orbit?
From 29 November to 3 December 1976, the equatorial states of Ecuador, Colombia, Brazil, Congo, Zaire, Uganda, Kenya, and Indonesia met in Bogotá, Colombia "with the purpose of studying the geostationary orbit that corresponds to their national terrestrial, sea, and insular territory and considered as a natural resource." Gabon and Somalia, also equatorial states, were not present. The "Declaration of the First Meeting of Equatorial Countries," also known as the Bogotá Declaration, was adopted on 3 December 1976. The declaration claimed the right of equatorial states to exercise national sovereignty over the arcs of the geostationary orbit (GSO) that are directly over their territories.

No country like to have another country's satellite in a geostationary orbit to observe 24/7/365. If an American spy satellite passes over Soviet territory, its passage is temporary and therefore tolerable. But if Russia is at the equator and the US had placed our own geostat spy satellite over Soviet territory, it would not exist for long. The Kremlin would have cancelled all kinds of projects and diverted those money to ensure the American spy satellite's destruction. On the other hand, if the US placed a geostationary spy satellite over Viet Nam, an equatorial country, there would be nothing the Viets could do but protest. It would be rude on the American behavior, but nothing the Viets could do. Even worse, what if that geostationary satellite is a nuclear weapon?

So there is nothing technically spectacular about Baidu's satellites being geostationary.

There are many technical and operational advantages to putting the GPS constellation where it is: at 22,300km altitude.

Foremost is overall system survivability and precision. If we are certain that satellites are perfectly constructed and that we do not have enemies, we would have placed the constellation at the geostat orbit over different geographical locations on Earth, providing 100% surface coverage with perfect signal integrity. But that is not possible. Satellites do fail. Signals do have propagation losses. So the US decided to place the GPS constellation where the combination of signal propagation losses and surface coverage is best: 22,300km altitude. You guys really thing we placed the GPS constellation at that altitude because our orbital science can reach only that high? :lol:

With a constellation, individual satellites produces diverse Doppler, range, and elevation angles and the receiver is forced to perform multiple calculations in order to ascertain position but multiple correlative factors are always desirable, especially if the receiver is mobile. Also because the constellation is at a semi geostat/geosync altitude where signal propagation losses are more tolerable, receiver antenna set can be made smaller, making the receiver more mobile and less costly to produce. This architecture worked so well that Baidu 2 essentially copied the American GPS. Baidu 1 satellites at geostat/geosync altitude uses directional transmit antennas. Baidu 2 satellites at the lower but semi geostat/geosync altitude will have omnidirectional transmit antennas, just like the American GPS design.

So did you guys really do a 'gotcha' on me anywhere? Nope. All you guys did was proved -- again -- that your nationalistic zeal and eagerness overrode your common sense to do basic research.
 

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