What's new

China has its own horrors to atone for

Two points :

1. CPC didn't even fight the imperialist forces of Japan in World War II

2. CPC killed millions of people in 50s and 60s.

The CPC here have absolutely no locus standi here when it comes to asking Japan to tender an apology and much less their CLOWN supporters.



A bit off-topic but here is a report showing true picture of CPC in it's hey days in 40s 50s and 60s

Kindly read the article if you are curious about the origins of CPC
--------------------

The CCP Didn’t Fight Imperial Japan; the KMT Did | The Diplomat

As Diplomat readers are well aware — and the Pacific Realist is frankly sick of —China has mounted a sustained campaign demanding that Tokyo take a “correct” view of Imperial Japan’s unspeakable crimes during WWII.

There’s always been a good deal of irony to all of this. Although far too many Japanese leaders have tried to shrink or even deny the crimes of Imperial Japan, including its atrocities in China, successive Japanese governments have acknowledged and apologized for many of these.

On the other hand, the Chinese Communist Party has also committed numerous massacres of Chinese since establishing the People’s Republic of China. This began early in its tenure while consolidating its control over the vast country, as Frank Dikötter notes in a terrific recent book. With regards to the “land reform” campaign alone, for instance, Dikötter writes, “The exact number of victims killed in the land reform will never be known, but it is unlikely to have been fewer than 1.5 to 2 million people from 1947 to 1952.” At least another two million were killed in the Great Terror that Mao launched between 1950-1952 to weed out imaginary counter-revolutionaries.

Of course, there was also the widespread famine that killed tens of millions during the Great Leap Forward. To be sure, there’s no reason to believe that Mao and the other CCP leaders intended to starve these people when they launched the Great Leap Forward. That being said, they continued these policies for years after they realized the disastrous outcomes they were having simply because Mao didn’t want to admit his failures. Then, of course, the entire country was plunged into chaos once again during the Cultural Revolution, which was Mao’s attempt to ensure his atrocities weren’t publicly acknowledged by the Party after his death.

As it turned, he needn’t have worried as the CCP under Deng Xiaoping decided it was not in the Party’s interest to acknowledge it had nearly destroyed the county many times over in its first 25 years in power. Instead, the CCP has devoted considerable resources to systematically rewriting history — or at the very least burying it. Unlike in Japan, where history is distorted by hardline leaders, in China distorting history is the official state policy. Meanwhile, taking the correct view of history is illegal — which is why books like Tombstone are banned.

Reasonable observers might conclude that it is the height of hypocrisy for the CCP to wage a global PR war over Japan’s views of history on the one hand, while on the other hand criminalizing a correct view of its own history. And there was a time not too long ago I might have agreed with these reasonable observers’ conclusion. However, this week Xi Jinping and the CCP took their hypocrisy on history to new heights.

As Shannon reported on Wednesday, earlier this year “China’s legislature passed a resolution creating two new national observances. ‘Victory Day’ on September 3 would commemorate Japan’s surrender in the ‘War of Resistance Against Japanese Aggression,’ China’s name for its fight against Imperial Japan before and during World War II. December 13 was also named a National Memorial Day to commemorate the Nanjing Massacre.”

She went on to note that President Xi and the entire Politburo Standing Committee participated in the new Victory Day celebrations, which they used mostly to criticize contemporary Japanese policy, and to try to create the impression that Japan’s shifting defense posture represents a return to the militarism of Imperial Japan.

However, along with criticizing Japan, Xi and the PBSC also used the Victory Day celebrations to praise the CCP itself. As Shannon writes, the Victory Day holiday “also served as a celebration of the Chinese Communist Party’s role in defeating Japan — and more than that, in saving China from its century of humiliation…. Xi credited the CCP with spearheading the movement to unite all of China’s people in opposition to Japan. To Xi Jinping, the deciding factors in the war were the ‘great national spirit’ of the Chinese people — particularly, their patriotism — and the leadership of the CCP.”

None of this is particularly new. The CCP has long claimed credit for having tirelessly defended China from the Imperial Japanese army. This couldn’t be further from the truth, however. As I have noted elsewhere, Japan’s invasion of China saved the CCP from Chiang Kai-shek and the KMT, and ultimately allowed Mao to defeat the KMT in the ensuing civil war. Indeed, by the end of 1934, the CCP was on the verge of extinction after KMT troops delivered another heavy blow to the Red Army in Jiangxi Province, which forced the Party to undertake the now infamous Long March to Xi’an in the northwestern province of Shaanxi. Chiang initially pursued the Communist forces, and would have almost certainly delivered a final blow to the CCP if war with Japan could have been delayed. As it turned out, Chiang was not able to put off the war with Japan any longer, and domestic and international pressure forced him to accept a tacit alliancewith the CCP against Japan.

At the onset of the war, then, the CCP was not in any position to defend anyone from the formidable Japanese military. In fact, it wasn’t even in a position to defend itself from the KMT. The initial battles of the second Sino-Japanese War in southern China were the largest ones, and the KMT fought them alone.

This would be the trend of the entire war. As two scholars note, “From 1937 to 1945, there were 23 battles where both sides employed at least a regiment each. The CCP was not a main force in any of these. The only time it participated, it sent a mere 1,000 to 1,500 men, and then only as a security detachment on one of the flanks.There were 1,117 significant engagements on a scale smaller than a regular battle, but the CCP fought in only one. Of the approximately 40,000 skirmishes, just 200 were fought by the CCP, or 0.5 percent.”

By the CCP’s own accounts during the war, it barely played a role. Specifically, in January 1940 Zhou Enlai sent a secret report to Joseph Stalin which said that over a million Chinese had died fighting the Japanese through the summer of 1939. He further admitted that only 3 percent of those were CCP forces. In the same letter, Zhou pledged to continue to support Chiang and recognize “the key position of the Kuomintang in leading the organs of power and the army throughout the country.” In fact, in direct contradiction to Xi’s claims on Wednesday, Zhou acknowledged that Chiang and the KMT “united all the forces of the nation” in resisting Japan’s aggression.

While the KMT were busy uniting the country and fighting the Japanese military, CCP forces spent much of the early part of the war hiding in the mountains to avoid battle. As the KMT was decimated by the Japanese military, it was forced to retreat further south. At the same time, the Japanese forces largely focused on securing control of Chinese cities and strategic infrastructure, while ignoring China’s massive countryside. Thus, the KMT’s efforts to actually defend China created a power vacuum in rural areas, which the CCP came out of hiding to seize. It used its control over these villages to perfect its propaganda and political efforts, and hid among the population to avoid fighting the Japanese army. According to Soviet military advisers stationed in CCP-controlled areas at the time, the CCP also used this land to grow opium to fund its growing operations.

As far as fighting went, the CCP engaged in guerilla warfare and sabotage missions. This certainly annoyed the Japanese forces, but it did not have a significant impact on Japan’s war operations. In fact, even the Japanese North China Area Army — which had command over the northern areas where the CCP was located and the KMT was relatively weaker than elsewhere —continued to see defeating the KMT as its primary objective. The greater impact of these guerilla operations was in helping the CCP win new recruits. The CCP used their “heroic” operations against the hated Japanese enemy to recruit young men (and women) to their cause, much as militant groups like the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham film their exploits today and post them on YouTube to attract recruits.

This was highly successful. According to the CCP’s own estimates, it began the war with 30,000 troops. By Victory Day, it had 1.2 million regular troops and around 2.6 million to 3 million militia under its command. It was also quick to seize the areas that the Japanese army was vacating, and seized the Japanese equipment. In fact, in some instances it even forced the Japanese soldiers to join the Red Army (the KMT did the same). Of course, the war not only allowed the CCP to grow much stronger, but it also greatly depleted the Nationalist’s strength. This allowed the CCP to prevail easily in the civil war.

This was not by accident but by design. The CCP had a choice: it could have prioritized defending the country against Japan during the war, or it could have prioritized seizing control of China from those who did fight the Japanese. It chose the latter. Meanwhile, by choosing to actually try to defend China against Japan during the war, the Nationalists handed the country to the CCP afterwards.

Which is why Xi and the CCP’s decision to create a national observance day to honor its defense of China during the second Sino-Japanese War represents the height of hypocrisy. It’s one thing to try to suppress all information exposing the Party’s failings, which killed millions of Chinese, while demanding Japan take a correct view of history (which Tokyo should do). It’s another thing altogether to falsely claim credit for one of the defining moments of your country’s modern history. And it’s really something unprecedented to create a national holiday to honor your Party for doing something it consciously avoided; namely, putting China’s defense over the CCP itself. Classy.

I agree with the article. Its one thing to criticize your political rival(KMT) for incompetence, corruption etc. but its another to rewrite history altogether for legitimacy purposes and shit on your own former leaders/soldiers who served/died fighting for the country. The CCP obviously want to claim credit for leading China during the war against Japan for more legitimacy , though the whole world knows it was the KMT. @Lux de Veritas wont be happy with this. :lol:
 
Interesting concept, since the population grew three fold in the last 65 years, that means that the mass killings of the 50's in Tibet are irrelevant or didn't happen. So I guess China's massive population growth since the end of WW2 means that the chinese killed by the Japanese forces are also irrelevant or didn't happen. Brilliant concept, what do you think @Nihonjin1051 ?

Well, to be honest he is just defending his country(by that i mean the CCP which is party in power, since to the chinese the ruling party is equal to the state/country) by all means necessary. If the KMT had played its card right and be wise like Mao it would have been the one ruling china today and believe me, people like Chinesetiger will also be defending the KMT(Party in power) the same way. Simple. :enjoy:
 
Then you wouldn't be any different than those Japanese soldiers who killed Chinese, would you?

Innocent people were killed by those 2 bombs, if it had been used against Japanese leaders or soldiers who had committed those crimes, it made sense. But you are defending death of hundreds of thousands of civilians because of wrong doings of their army/leaders. Americans weren't any 'less savage' than those Japanese soldiers either. There was basically no good side in WWII, all were evil, it's just that winners could write some of the history.
The A-bombs were not the first resort. Not because the A-bombs were not available at the start of the war, but even when they were available, there were debates on whether they should be used or not.

When it is state vs state, which means army vs army, it is less about holding individuals accountable for their orders and more about denying that state and its army the ability to wage war, and if there is persistence in doing so, hopefully you demoralize its leadership to the point where the state's and its army's leaderships believes that the war will not turn in their favor. That persistence from you must involves escalation of destruction wrought on that state and its army. You can always hope that if you utterly defeated a division of enemy troops, that state will capitulate. Or maybe a couple of divisions of troops, a few airbases, and one naval fleet, and that state will surrender.

The Allies back in WW II had that persistence and that escalation of destruction wrought, not just on Japan's foreign holdings, but literally on Japan's home islands themselves, and often simultaneously. You, putting yourself in the Americans' position, would think that given such obvious evidences that the war is (not was) not turning in Japan's favor, you are expecting Japan's surrender any time soon. Days, weeks, and months passed and the Japanese Army continues to fight. More Japanese territories continues to fall into your hands. Your army continues to gain grounds. Your air forces continues to hold Japanese airspace hostage. So where is the capitulation ?

That is the brutal truth of war, that if the leadership refuses to admit defeat despite obvious real world evidences that they are not winning, or even holding a status quo, escalation of destruction to induce doubts is inevitable. After the army, what is left is the foundation of the country's ability to wage war -- the country itself.

This is why for those of us who actually have served in the military, we do not take seriously those who, after the facts, criticized the US decision to use the A-bombs on Japan, nor do we take seriously those who casually tosses 'nuking' at every opportunity they see, not to intellectually enlighten the issue, but to merely exercise that childish part of their minds.
 
Well, to be honest he is just defending his country(by that i mean the CCP which is party in power, since to the chinese the ruling party is equal to the state/country) by all means necessary. If the KMT had played its card right and be wise like Mao it would have been the one ruling china today and believe me, people like Chinesetiger will also be defending the KMT(Party in power) the same way. Simple. :enjoy:

Actually his grandparents fought and worked for the KMT. Isn't that so, @ChineseTiger1986 ?
 
Well, to be honest he is just defending his country(by that i mean the CCP which is party in power, since to the chinese the ruling party is equal to the state/country) by all means necessary. If the KMT had played its card right and be wise like Mao it would have been the one ruling china today and believe me, people like Chinesetiger will also be defending the KMT(Party in power) the same way. Simple. :enjoy:

nope I'd be too poor to afford a computer and wouldn't be able to go online between my shifts in the landlords fields.

it's not like ppl didn't hate the KMT before 1949. in fact it was extremely unpopular. the author neglected the fact that most intellectuals hated them. Lu xun, xiao hong, , mao dun and other Chinese literary heavyweights of the early 20th century despised the KMT. illiterate peasants also hated them.

otherwise why did the CPC win? even after the war, KMT had 5 million troops armed with American weapons, and the CPC was willing to negotiate and participate in elections. the KMT attacked the CPC first both times.

in fact, the question should be: why did the KMT launch surprise attacks on the CPC twice (the first was starting the whole conflict ) when they have already stated they wanted elections instead of fighting?

answer: KMT and CPC were allies and ready to participate in Democratic processes until paranoid KMT dictator Chiang kai shek was worried that the CPC was gonna win elections (twice ) and backstabbed them.

if you start shit by stabbing someone in the back twice after being friendly with them, whatever defensive measures they take are morally and legally justified.
 
that isn't true legally by American law. murder is different from manslaughter or neglect resulting in death.

This Spanish guy is funny, he hates CPC but supports the Vietcong?

Both as the communist regime, but CPC is just 100 times smarter and more competent than the Vietcong ever was.

See how the Vietcong are just a bunch of CPC wannabes who dream to be as good as its big brother.

CPC under Mao's guidance is undoubtedly Karl Marx's most brilliant student, even outshine the Soviet communist party.

 
Last edited:
This Spanish guy is funny, he hates CPC but supports the Vietcong?

Both as the communist regime, but CPC is just 100 times smarter and more competent than Vietcong ever was.

See how the Vietcong are just a bunch of CPC wannabes who dream to be as good as its big brother.

CPC under Mao's guidance is undoubtedly Karl Marx's most brilliant student, even outshine the Soviet communist party.


Really? Its new to me that I support the VCP.
 
Really? Its new to me that I support the VCP.

So you support the ROV?

Too bad as long as the Vietcong is still in power, that regime won't make any come back.

I agree with the article. Its one thing to criticize your political rival(KMT) for incompetence, corruption etc. but its another to rewrite history altogether for legitimacy purposes and shit on your own former leaders/soldiers who served/died fighting for the country. The CCP obviously want to claim credit for leading China during the war against Japan for more legitimacy , though the whole world knows it was the KMT. @Lux de Veritas wont be happy with this. :lol:

The KMT was even hated by the US President.

Just go to read Harry Truman's memo about these guys.
 
So you support the ROV?

Too bad as long as the Vietcong is still in power, that regime won't make any come back.

No, I don't support either of them and as far as I see, CPC and VCP are 2 shades of the same color but one has been far more barbaric than the other.
 
No, I don't support either of them and as far as I see, CPC and VCP are 2 shades of the same color but one has been far more barbaric than the other.

CPC is much smarter and more strategically patient than VCP.

If VCP got the power of CPC, then they would definitely become 100 times more aggressive.

Heck, it is impossible for CPC to be more barbaric than VCP.
 
The KMT was even hated by the US President.

Just go to read Harry Truman's memo about these guys.

CPC, KMT, neither one is or was good. They ruled for their own benefit.

If VCP got the power of CPC, then they would definitely become 100 times more aggressive.

Heck, it is impossible for CPC to be more barbaric than VCP.

So far, history says otherwise.
 
Back
Top Bottom